Kitten with aggression problems

[babblino]

Hello everyone! I'm on here because I need help with my 4/5 month old kitten who is known around the house for being a sweet angel one second, and a devil the next. We love her to bits of course but we don't like to see her getting hissy.

Anyway so from the top. We already have a 7 year old cat who was our first cat that we've had and we were lucky, as beginners, that she was one of those rare mellow cats that you can roll over quite literally. However our new one is a little different. Basically when we bought her from the breeder, who's cat got pregnant from going out, we noticed she was quite young, about 6/7 weeks old. We didn't notice this immediately because, obviously, it's been a while since our 7 year old was a kitten. But when we met a friend who had a 12 week old, we noticed. So not only did the kitten, miss out on important social skill and manners lessons from mum and siblings, but we also noticed that the owner would pick the kittens up and tap their nose if they climbed him. This was the reason we bought her right off the bat, we couldn't bear to see her get hit like that. This, plus her lack of social training, has made her into a misbehaved kitty. We also believe she is one of those easily over-stimulated cats.

When we play with her using wand toys she becomes very aggressive, she will run until she is on the floor panting and if anyone even moves in her direction, she begins yowling and hissing. I can only assume she feels vulnerable because she is exhausted, but I don't want her to feel like we will attack, what can I do to reassure her that she isn't in danger? Someone suggested we play in short sessions, but won't that make her lose interest because she'll feel like it always ends prematurely?

She is also fearful of hands. Even when she comes over to solicit attention, if we reach out to pet her she will immediately bite and then start growling. I have concluded that it's best just to ignore her but I don't want her to feel unloved when she's rubbing her head over my hands. Should I just hold my hand out and let her do the stroking?

Another thing, and this is the most important problem we have is, she naturally, as a kitten loves to eat things off of the floor and run into places she doesn't belong. We tend to use a firm NO or even a hiss to tell her off, and sometimes she listens but mostly she'll ignore it. When we resort to having to pick her up she will imediatelly become aggressive, biting and bunny-kicking our hands, hard, and growl/hiss. We understand that the abrupt pick up wasn't solicited or expected but when we are chasing her to try and get a pill (this actually happened, i had a heart attack) out of her mouth, a quick and firm grab is all we can do before she nearly kills herself. Lets not forget chewing wires.

Don't get me wrong, we have TRIED to kitty proof the house, but she has on multiple occasions dug/clawed/bitten through a closed space just to get inside or to eat something, she isn't short of tenacious. What can we do to avert this behavior, or to at least get her used to getting picked up.

One thing I will add is that she does have baby canines at the top that haven't fallen out, and her adult teeth have now squeezed into the space, so I think maybe it's irritating her and that's why her personality is so intense. She has always had an intense personality but as she's getting older it certainly is getting worse. We have already booked her for an appointment at the vets to get the teeth checked up on and start planning for a removal surgery, as well as getting her spayed. We kind of wish the spaying may calm her down too.

Don't get me wrong, she has sweet moments where she will sit next to you, watch you work, and even let you rub her belly whilst she's in your lap, which is what our oldest cat has always loved to do. As soon as she's done she lets out a precious meow, our queue to let her go. But sometimes she becomes a completely different kitten. She becomes tenacious, predatory, aggressive, confused and just, crazy.

We know her background is def a cause of this, but yet we don't know how to help her recover, since we've had a super mellow and well behaved cat for the past 7 years, and therefore lack the experience to deal with this situation.

Also, we did try to give her back to the owners when we discovered how young she was, just until she turned 12 weeks old. But those scummy people ignored any and all contact I tried to make with them.

[Lilith]

Hi Babblino and welcome.

Well, you've got your hands full. Poor poor little girl! She had a rough time until she came to you.

I'm not sure if I can help much, but I can certainly sympathise. I have one just the same and she's now 5 - but just as unpredictable, just as intense, and yes, I often have to let her do the stroking, as touching her when she doesn't choose to be touched angers or bewilders her and she goes into wildcat mode.

I don't know much about my girl's background, only that she went to a family who couldn't cope with her, but they were decent people, apart from putting her outside when she was obnoxious - not what I'd have done but oh boy can she be obnoxious! The kids might have roughnecked with/teased her but I got the impression that there was a lot of love and intelligence in the family and my Molly is a very strong character (obnoxious!) so I don't know whether it's nature or nurture in her case. But cats like these are hard work!

I think you're doing all the right things here. Saying simply 'no' and hissing is ideal - also a lot of talking and reassuring her that she's a good girl. And I think you're wise not to let her get over-excited. The teeth sound awful - she'll definitely be more comfortable once those are sorted, and yes, the spaying's due; she MAY appreciate you a little more on returning from the vet (such a pity we can't explain to them!) but I'm not sure that she'll change, but you will learn her and her ways. Molly has improved over the years although she'll never be a cuddlebunny, but like your girl she does come to love and enjoys affection - when she permits!

Cats like these are a total pain in the whatsit and I've been at my wits' end with Molly sometimes, especially when she was younger and manic, but when they show some affection it's so rewarding. I'm glad your girl has found an understanding owner like you. Just out of interest, what's her ancestry? I'm pretty sure Molly's half Burmese, which could explain a lot. I used to breed Siamese but Molly out-Meezes the Meez!

Hopefully there will be other people along with more advice soon and all the best with her - please let us know how you go on and give her a love from me - when she'll let you

[babblino]

Hi thanks for that!

It's nice to hear some positive feedback, especially from someone who has a similar experience with their cat. Our kitten, Yuki, has unknown ancestry. Her mother was a skinny white shorthair with black patches. The father we never got to see, but apparently he was a big tuxedo called Hulk because he was beastly in appearance (I imagine your typical un-neutered tomcat). Yuki herself is quite stocky but muscular, she's black with white socks, collar and belly, and a mustache (<3). She had a sibling who was similar but way more timid, come to think of it maybe we should've gotten her,since Yuki's confidence means she often bullies our older cat Kiska. They've improved though, we can leave them together now without worrying about bloodshed. Kiska will go sleep somewhere and Yuki will find a toy to play with. Kiska btw is a Turkish Van mix. I never saw either of her parents but she has the typical patterning and soft fur of a Van, albeit short-haired. A lot of people mistake her for obese but if you see her after a shower (both cats are ok with baths, they don't freak out) you'll know that it's mostly all fur XD.

I wanted to post pics but it keeps saying file too large :/

[babblino]

Update on the teeth! Yuki bit me during playtime when she got a little too excited. It wasn't hard, it never is too hard. But I look at my hand and there is blood! It wasn't from me as she never broke skin. Anyway I picked up a rather hissy Yuki and looked in her mouth, both baby canines have fallen out!

[Lilith]

Hi, that's good news about the teeth - she's going to be a lot more comfortable now - saves on the vet bills too

I'm not an expert on posting pics, only just learned myself, but there's a section at the top of the forum index that's very helpful on photos - I found the 'resizer' option best for me, though I ended up having to right-click the resized downloaded photo, then save it in downloads under a different name. But that may just be me.

Good luck

[Ruth B]

I have to say I think you are doing wonderfully with a kitten that has had a rough start in life, and personally I can understand why you asked the owners to have her back until she was 12 weeks, but I am glad they refused, I think she will be far better with you to teach her manners.

What you are doing is right. She must learn what she can and can't do, a sharp reprimand when she does something wrong (or dangerous) is the right way to go about it, but it has to be when they are doing it, it can't be afterwards. If you find something out after the act there is no point telling them off then they won't know what they are being told off about.

If she gets hissy or growly, just turn your back on her and ignore her, or just give her sidelong glances. Cats staring at each other is a very aggressive act and if she is exhausted after a play session the last thing she wants is someone seeming to be aggressive, look away from her and she will know not to interpret it as a threat.

As far as the biting goes, there are two options I have heard of. If she bites as part of play or wanting attention, turn aways and ignore her, let her learn that that does not get her what she wants. If its a bit more of an aggressive bite then instead of pulling away if she has gone for a hand, push the hand gently inwards into her mouth. This is totally against instinct and her teeth are designed to hold against things pulling away not pushing in. A gentle push is normally enough to make the cat open its mouth in surprise letting you withdraw the hand safely and then you can reprimand her and again ignore her.

I may seem to be saying to ignore her a lot, but it is often the best punishment if she misbehaves. When she is being good giver her plenty of attention to make up for it and to let her know that she is loved and wanted.

As far as the incident with the teeth, it isn't uncommon in humans and I see no reason it should be in cats. My Dad was a dentist and he mentioned that often the adult teeth would have grown through and not pushed the milk teeth out properly. They were normally lose and ready to come out and did so either with a bit of assistance or on there own when eating etc.

As far as photos go, it took me a while but like Lilith, I managed to sort out the resizer that is linked on thread about photos. Again, I have to download the photo, resize it, save it as a new file and add that file to the thread. The standard resizing option seems to work for thread photos and there is an option to add how many pixels the new file should be that had to be changed for the avatar photo as it had to be smaller.

[babblino]

Hi sorry for the late reply!

I'll fiddle with the pics later.

Yuki is doing ok. We have taken her with us to our fathers house since my little sister there likes to play with Yuki. They're practically sisters. Yuki doesn't get stressed btw, she's quite confident and outgoing and treats Ava (my sister) exceptionally well, she's never been "crazy" with her. We are here with her for a day and two nights and Yuki has gotten very snuggly with me lol.

We are suspecting that Yuki is one of those cats who's butter to a few select people and stone to everyone else. Aside from Ava she is very calm and gentle with my mother. Yuki spent her first few nights in my mothers room so I can only assume she's imprinted on her which is why she's never aggressive with her. Our eldest cat was the same with me.

Yes I use the push method when Yuki bites too hard or grapples me and doesn't let go. Granted we don't use it very often since we've started picking up on her subtle ques when she's had enough so as to avoid biting. I wasn't sure if this was cruel so I've stopped doing it but you know how cats have a gag reflex when you open their mouth (i think its a gag reflex) to give them pills etc? I used to slip my finger and thump into her mouth and gently pry her mouth open to trigger the gag reflex. The second she reacted I would let my hand free from her mouth and then ignore her. I wanted her to associate biting with a negative emotion. I have stopped doing this but is it wrong anyway?

Also I want to ask for some tips on keeping Yuki and Kiskas relationship peaceful. They've come a long way in accepting one another, especially Kiska, but Yuki still chases Kiska. I know it's normal for kittens to chase elderly cats and for her to have a few hissing spats at Yuki. But Yuki is borderline obsessed with Kiska. She could be sleeping and the moment Kiska walks in she will hop down and chase Kiska. Another time Kiska was sleeping on a dining room chair and Yuki looms above her from the table and swats at Kiskas face. No claws of course but Kiska was mighty confused. Sometimes Kiska lets Yuki very close, one time Yuki literally climbed over Kiska whilst she was sleeping. Kiska didn't do anything other than growl. She's always been a all bark no bit cat but I want her to vecome confident and actually whack Yuki around the ear for once instead of run away and encourage Yuki to chase. Any help? I will add we can leave them home alone and they generally sleep in separate places, but as soon as we are in it's chase Kiska night!

[Lilith]

Ah yes, the classic annoying kitten - older cats have to put up with a lot sometimes, but I think if Kiska's letting Yuki near, and going close to her, given the short length of time they've been together, they're doing very well. A growl or hiss is normal cat language; Kiska is just telling Yuki what's what.

When Molly came I had an elderly ex-feral tomcat who stood no nonsense; if I had to do his dirty ears or trim his claws, he'd put up with it for so long; give me a warning growl, and then if that didn't stop me, he'd bite. Well, he'd gum me; he 'd only got a few teeth. Moll teased him, flirted with him, jumped all over him, and I never saw him so much as growl; I'd scold her gently if she jumped on to his arthritic back end, but he didn't seem to mind at all.

I used to breed Siamese and my first girl was a dainty little thing, but the two kittens I kept grew into big cats for their breed. Then another kitten joined us and the whole lot would rampage round. One day I saw Jacinth, the mother cat, crossing the bedroom floor as new kitten and big 'kittens' watched from the bed. In an instant, as if choreographed, all three launched themselves into space and landed on top of her. 'Get Jassy!'

Again she never said a thing. What's a game of squash between friends?

I reckon Kiska and Yuki are settling down pretty normally together, though Kiska may wish for a bit of peace and quiet sometimes, older cats do seem to make a lot of allowances for kitten behaviour.

Good luck with the pics - hope you manage to post them

[babblino]

Update again!

Progress has backfired a little. We don't know what's triggered it but Yuki has gone from a 5 to a 10. She is biting constantly regardless of what kind of toys we are using (wand). She will ambush out of the blue and bite quite hard. No bloodshed yet but she does tear up some skin and leave the bite area red and sore. We did the whole pushing you hand etc into her mouth but that's only triggering her to bite harder. We extended her play hours from 2 to 3 hours, twice a day (yes thats how long we play with her, her energy knows no bounds). But she still continues to ambush and bite. If we say NO or hiss she doesn't listen and will instead switch grips and bite the other hand if we try to pull her away. She is also constantly hissing and growling during these episodes. I want to highlight the fact that we are not in any way triggering her to act like this. You could be sitting on the sofa going on your computer when suddenly she'll run from the other room and WHAM! Sink her teeth into you and bunny kick. It's almost as if she is being territorial and trying to drive us away.

We don't think the trip to my fathers could've been the trigger as the change was way too sudden and she's had several trips back and from his, so I don't know why this time it would be different.

I don't want to say that I'm at my wits end but I'm beginning to think it might be better to find a more experienced owner for her if she keeps this up. We can't afford a behaviorist. I want to try my best and help Yuki and her crazy personality (or even mental health?) but when it's gotten to the point that I'm having to
scruff and pin her down until she falls asleep (if I let go she will just continue attacking) then I really need to reflect. I'm used to getting scratched and bit here and there and my pain tolerance is pretty high so I can stand the attacks (for now, god knows what she'll be like as an adult), but from the viewpoint that this is my house and my rules, I can't accept Yuki behaving like this.

Pls if anyone can offer advice I'm all ears. I love Yuki and when she is sweet, she is REALLY sweet.
She'll curl herself up right by your neck and purr all night. But it's so rare to see her act like that. %90 of the time she acts so fearful and aggressive. We're beginning to suspect she was abused at her former home, or atleast had very little affectionate contact with them.

[Ruth B]

The first thought is, is she teething again? With what happened with the canines she is obviously at the age for it, if she is then, from what I understand, it is normal to start biting more. It doesn't excuse her behaviour but it might explain it. Getting some of the larger cat chew/kick toys might help if you can learn to turn her attention away from your hand and onto that to attack.

I think you are right that she had very little socialisation as a kitten and not long enough with her mother and any siblings to learn what she can and can't do, and like a stroppy toddler is trying to see what she can get away with at every turn.

I really don't have any experience, but it sounds like she has got to learn to settle down when told to. My thought would be either a quiet room of her own that you can put her in after her play sessions so she can sleep or play with her other toys, or even a dog cage with a cat bed inside that you could put her in when her behaviour becomes unacceptable. She wouldn't need to be in it long just shut in long enough to calm down, and then you could open it and let her out when she was ready, the same with a quiet room. I don't know if it would work and I am sure if anyone really thinks it would be a bad idea they will say so.

I only mention the cage as when we first had our youngsters (they were about 6 months at the time) one was a real pain at meal times. As it was between vaccination visits one of the carriers, the wire, top loading types had been left out, so after he had been told 'No' three times he was put in it until we had finished eating. Now a days he is directed to his hammock if he gets to bad, and he know that if we reach the stage of saying 'No, Hammock' and tapping his hammock he has pushed it to far and will normally settle down in said hammock, at least for a few minutes.

[babblino]

Thnks. We have a carry case so I'll try that. We were actually discussing that when she kept jumping up at the bird cages. You might be right about the teething. Her mood get rotten around tge time she drops teeth but I haven't seen any missing yet. Thnk you very much. I refuse to give up on Yuki.

[Lilith]

I wouldn't blame you if you WERE at your wits' end - I know I often was with Molly and she never attacked quite like that.

I think Ruth's suggestion of a quiet room is a good one; the trouble with a cat like this is that any remedy has to be a 'passive' one. Some of Molly's behaviour could be deflected by a plant mister (squirted under her tail, especially useful if she was bullying one of the older girls as she had to turn round to see what had wet her backside and thus back down from the confrontation and lose face) and eventually even just to shake the bottle or say warningly, 'squirty-bottle's coming', would stop her in her tracks. But Yuki's much more fragile than Molly by the sound; you're in the difficult position of having to curb the aggression but still boost her confidence.

When she gets too much and if she won't respond to a hiss or a 'no', you could say calmly, 'right, Yuki, room,' and gently usher her in there, telling her what a good girl she is. I don't feel the carrier would work, personally, as it might be too much of a confrontation to get her in there (my lot always sprout an extra pair of back legs lol) and you don't really want to let her associate the carrier with wrongdoing as it's bewildering enough for a cat to have to go to the vet in its carrier. And when she's in that mood you might want to keep handling her to a minimum.

It's interesting that she behaves so well with your sister. Reminds me of the time I visited some neighbours with a Bengal cross cat and of course stroked the cat. 'We can't do that,' they said. 'When she's sitting there on her tree, she bites us.' Of course, they were her humans and she did as she liked with them; she was on her best behaviour with me. Some cats just aren't approachable when sitting in certain perches; my Molly can be like this. It does sound as if teething is contributing to Yuki's moods though; I wonder if she's got some difficult molars coming through.

What I find works with Moll these days is not to touch her, just tell her hello and what a good girl she is, with all the usual cat language, blinking and averting the gaze and so on. She looks so gorgeous sitting there, but to stroke her can still arouse either a cross grasshopper spring away from me, or a bite. Not touching her like this has actually paid off dividends, as she's begun to get jealous of the others being petted; she watches with narrowed eyes so of course I tell her what a good girl she is, I know she's there, and so on. When the other cat has moved away, MOLL comes over to be loved, purrs, wants stroking ...

Also, they are never consistent. They have good days, they have bad days; you think you've made progress but then you're back to square one - then suddenly they surprise you by being little angels.

I hope some of this might help, I'm thinking aloud here and rambling on I'm afraid.

All the very very best with her

[Alice]

I've no experience of the kind of problems you're dealing with, so can't offer any advice - only sympathy.

You mention the cost of a behaviourist, but I wonder if you know that there is one on here who can be contacted by email, without any cost -

[email protected]

[babblino]

Oh wow Alice! I wasn't aware of that I'll be sure to contact them.

Lilith I'm happy your cat sounds like Yuki, because I can know I'm not the only one. We're going to give Yuki a few months or so to see if her behaviour has gone down, so as to cancel out teething and possibly the influx of teen hormones. The aggressive biting isn't a problem because of pain, we gotten used to it, so we'll power through these months and record her behaviour. Yuki is sweeter to some people more than others. My mum and my youngest sis pamper her but my other sis and I will scold Yuki, so I don't know if she hates us more for that. But obv I can't not scold her if she's doing something harmful.

[Lilith]

Oh well, if we're firm with the little horrors, they're bound to get mad at us sometimes ... you should see Molly if I try to flap a hand at her to get her down from worktop/food/both. Glare! Swipe! Claws out! Ouch!

But two minutes later the little devil's purring and soft-soaping round. Turning on the charm.

Persevere

Good luck with the behaviourist; that's a great idea

[Joaobeneditosimoes]

You have a badass cat

Well my cat, ''blacky'' was just the same.
He came home when he was 1 month old and let me tell you... we had a living devil inside. It was tough. He played for hours and wanted more and more. I played with different toys but also with hands, which is something you should avoid at all cost.
He would attack our feet like if it was a mouse or something. It was hard sometimes.
My advice to you is keep consistency. Eventually with time your cat will calm down, till then play with your cat and give a treat each time he behaves correctly. When bites are coming, use a firm ''no'' and grab your cat and put him In another room, and leave the room. Remember... consistency. With time the cat will become calmer.


My cat is now 1/2 years old and he doesn't like much to be petted. All cats have different personalities. But... comparing when he was young he is much much better. He purrs when i go to sleep and wants a bit of cuddle.
When he was 6 months we brought another cat. At first was diffucult but 3 days later they were starting to interact, and let me tell you it was the best thing we've done. They burst energy of each other...


About the way you should give her hair ties... the best cat toy.

Your cat is an agressive player i believe if you get another cat it will help tou so much...
It happens a lot when cats leave their mamma too soon and she won't learn all the things with her.
You need to be very patient and calm. Don't give up on her...
Oh we used to hiss him each time he bit the hands and really worked... really like more a shhhh like ''be quiet''.

[Lilith]

Lol - some cats, like Yuki and Molly, just are 'badass' - but it's great when they do come for affection.

Molly climbed on to my knees yesterday

I've been living with that cat for almost 5 years and I'm still learning. I realise now not to disturb her until she wants to fuss, and I wonder if she finds that reassuring - also the rivalry with the others won't hurt.

How's it going with Yuki, Babblino?

[babblino]

Update on Yuki.

We took her to the vets and as it turned out she had an infection where her stuck baby teeth had fallen out from. It was right behind both her upper canines. We can only assume she was grumpy and bity because of the pain. She has since been on antibiotics and the swelling has gone down. And she's calmed down too.

I just want to ask about something actually. Yuki is a major pig! She eats constantly! She'll finish her bowls (she has two) and move straight for Kiskas right after. We feed them both wet and dry food side by side. And when we feed her treats she will aggressively grab your hands (with claws) to get to the food. Would it be possible she has worms? We have treatment for it but I don't want to be medicating if it's nothing.

I'm teaching her not to be so pushy by offering her a treat, and pulling away with a NO if she tries to grab it too suddenly or lift her paw to swipe. Once she slowly reaches for it then I give it to her. I also rustle my hand in the bag for a bit longer sometimes, to test her patience and see if she will go back to being grabby, or stay calm. She seems to be getting the idea, I also fed Kiska in front of her and she seemed very attentive to how Kiska would take food out of my hand, as if she understood that she needed to be calm if she wanted a treat. I told the family to do the same.

It's funny because you can see the slight frustration in her face when I pull away with a NO. As if she's thinking "oh for gods sake give me the treat!". Sometimes she would simply walk away in a strop. But the sound of a rattling treat bag immediatlly got uer attention again. She is a little piggy!

Another thing is we have noticed she gets very angry especially around two of our friends, a mother and daughter who own two male cats. She becomes very wary with EVERYONE. If anyone wants to interact with her its a swipe, hiss and a growl. Could it be the scent of the male cats that triggers her? We tried having them give Yuki treats but she simply knocks their hand away and runs.

That's all. If you have any help pls comment!

[Lilith]

So there was still some infection? No wonder she was grumpy, poor lass; glad you've got that sorted for her.

Yes, I think it could well be the scent of the strange cats on your friends that spooks her; I'd just let her avoid them if that's the case; she may get used to them in time.

I wonder how she was fed as a kitten after weaning? Makes me wonder if they just dumped a dish of food down and left them to fight over it. I tend to feed communally - but I always make sure there's more than enough and for seconds too; if an owner doesn't do that, especially with kittens, or supervise them properly, there will be rivalry and fighting and what I call 'anxiety eating'. I had a feral tom who moved in and ate and ate, just in case he found himself without grub the next day. It took him years to trust that there would always be a full bowl and enough for everyone. Worms can of course be a cause for appetite; if Yuki hasn't been wormed she should be done just in case but I agree with you about sticking chemicals on them needlessly; I know this isn't everyone's opinion but I don't flea or worm unless there's a need. Mine are indoor/secure garden cats though; if I had roamers and hunters I WOULD flea and worm regularly.

About the treats training, I'm not really qualified to say. Certainly the claws deserve a 'no' but I've never attempted to train a cat to 'wait', and if I pulled food back suddenly from Molly I might have to count my fingers lol. But I've been trained myself by generations of cats (and snakes) to move my hand very slowly near their mouths, but every owner/cat relationship's different. Yuki sounds as if she knows already what you want her to do. I sometimes tell Molly 'gently' and give her lots of praise; even if she's giving me the 'don't touch me' look I'll tell her I realise, and always talk to her and tell her she's a good girl. But food treats (none of them care much for Dreamies etc; they like titbits of fish or meat) tend to be put separately for them (saves on the fingers.) Just realised, Molly does know to 'wait' where my plate's concerned; she'll watch from a distance but as soon as she sees a titbit being put next to the plate, she's there.

Sorry I'm rambling on here - hope all this makes sense. I'm so glad Yuki's progressing and the tooth problem sorted ought to make a big difference - all the very best with her

[Ruth B]

Poor thing, I've had infection in my mouth and teeth and it is really painful, no wonder it was making her grumpy.

My Saturn is another that will eat anything in sight and frequently would push the others away from food bowls to eat theirs, even before he had cleaned his bowl. People always seem confused when I mention that we put 4 bowls down at feeding time as, as they always point out, we only have 3 cats. The answer is simple, it is easier to divide the two pouches in to 4 bowls, but mainly if there are four to choose from then when he pushes one of the others out there is another bowl they can move on to.

If Yuki likes the dried food then you might want to have a look at food balls for him. They are plastic balls with holes in them that you can fill will dried food and/or treats, and then the cats have to knock them about the floor to get the food out. The can help both with entertaining the cat and if the cat tends to bolt the dried food, and then bring it all back up. Be warned though, you will end up with dried food scattered across the floor, and on a laminate floor they can sound like world war 3 breaking out at 2.00am.

As far as the training and treats go, I would also back up Lilith's comment about offering it and then pulling it away, that is a recipe for clawed and bitten hands and arms. Make sure he is sat quiet before you get the treat out, but once offered don't pull it back. If he sits quiet while you get it out then starts jumping up, before being offered it, then hold the treat and packet close to you, preferably at a height he can't reach and just wait until he has settled down again. I have heard people who have managed to clicker train cats the same as with dogs, but i have never tried it and I would have thought it would be far more dependent on the attitude of the cat than it would be in dogs.

[babblino]

Yes we do use those ball type toys for her treats, although hers at the moment is a toilet roll with the ends pushed in and holes cut into it lol. We did buy her a ball toy but we don't know where she's pushed it now

We have started laying out food bowls here and there as Yuki always seems to go for Kiskas food first. Kiska has a special diet food because she has a developed a sensetive stomache. My main concern with Yuki eating it is that the content of the food might not be good for her. We would've put Kiskas food on high ground but Kiska is developing arthiritis (we think) so we don't want her to have to jump around just to eat. Nowadays we mix a little wet food with Yukis dry food so she goes for that instead. But she still falls for her old habits sometimes. Kiska is the same though, she will eat Yukis kitten food over her own. Now we just lay out whatever around the house, but water is still in the kitchen as Yuki consistently has knocked water everywhere during her "run around the house like a madman" episodes.

I might post links to pics of the cats if that is allowed. Grew tired of working out how to post photos lol.

[Lilith]

That's a good idea with the loo roll inner - I used to use them as hides for baby snakes

Yes, I'm sure you can post links - other people do. I look forward to pics

[babblino]

Hello again! Yuki is doing better now, she's a lot sweeter but we're still having problems in terms of her relationship with Kiska.

So Kiska will often sit at the entrance to a room, which always results in her having a hard time with Yuki. If Yuki wants to pass through Kiska will growl and hiss, sometimes swatting. Yuki just wants to pass through, often having to jump just to get away. I don't want Kiska feeling like she has to hate Yuki, I know the hissing and growling is normal but I would've expected Kiska to get used to Yukis antics by now, especially since we can leave them alone in the house together. I try to move Kiska from the entrance ways so she doesn't have to encounter Yuki as close and personal, but Kiska will willingly go to the door. It's as if she wants to be grumpy. Yuki's no good either. If Kiska decides to retreat, Yuki will chase after her and sometimes bite Kiskas tail.

Am I right in saying that Kiska needs to grow a pair and fight Yuki back? I feel like Yuki sees Kiska as a pushover, and tbh she's not wrong in thinking that.

[babblino]

http://thebeanlife.tumblr.com/post/154326742153/cats

theres the cats btw. top is Yuki. bottom is Kiska

[Lilith]

Ah.

Kiska is indeed feeling grumpy - or rather she's 'training' Yuki to accept her dominance. By blocking the doorway she's saying 'I'm boss cat here - or else!'

If a timid cat was being bullied I'd intervene, but in view of Yuki's feistiness, I'd be inclined to leave them to sort this out themselves. It's a good sign really - Kiska is indeed growing a pair

Bless them; they'll shake down together; sounds as if real progress is being made. I have a timid cat of my own who was bullied in this way by her probable father (they were ferals) but lately she's been doing it to my very feisty youngest cat - and good on her. The younger one won't suffer from being taught a bit of respect after trying to bully the older one.

Love the pics - for some reason I'd always imagined Yuki as a black tux, and although Kiska hasn't much tortie on her, torties have the reputation for being feisty, so watch out Yuki!

All the best and please let us know how you go on

[babblino]

Will do Yuki is getting sweeter. She has her days though, sometimes you can pick her up and cuddle her for a good amount of time, other days you pick her up and she's got her mouth open, ready to bite you on the nose. We accept her for who she is of course and leave her be on her moody days.

She's starting to show a lot of interest in the outdoors. We think she is hitting puberty. She'll stare intently out of the window and occasionally meow. We're not sure if we would let her go out in the future (she'll need her vaccines of course) since her personality is very wreckless and we fear she'll get herself into trouble. Especially since we live in the outskirts of town, our neighborhood is full of cats, almost every household has one, but we also have loads of foxes.

We used to let Kiska out in the summer. But recently she was going out for longer periods of time and we had to have a neighbors help catching her once because she simply didn't want to come back. It took us a whole day and night before we caught her in our neighbors shed. We don't know why she wanted to leave, before if we called her she'd come bounding back home and we'd give her treats. Mind you she never was a hunting cat. She would always be in the other neighbors garden, so we don't know what tempted her to go feral almost. Anyway we stopped letting her out now since she's hitting old age and also because she started bringing back fleas. Didn't help that Yuki was also infested with them.

After two rounds of de-fleaing the house and the cats we're 80% sure they're gone. We're not seeing any flea poos on their skin or where they sleep soo..However we do give them a bath every two months just to be sure. Kiska doesn't mind it past some meowing complaints. Yuki isn't too thrilled with the idea of being washed but she didn't freak out either, it helped that we trimmed her claws before hand.

[babblino]

Bad news!

During one of Yukis tyrannical play times (running around like a madman and beating up her toys) I accidentally stepped on her. I was carrying some laundry when she shot past my legs and I kicked and trampled her. I managed to jump back before my full weight went down on her, so I didn't break her thank god!!! But she still cried out and hid.

She has a bell on her collar so we know where she is but I didn't hear her this time until she was right underneath me. I cried so hard I was so scared I could've killed her!!

She won't let me touch her now so I asked my mum to check her to see if she's ok. She called the vet and the vet said that if shes not reacting in pain to touch then we should let her be and bring her in if she exhibits unusual behaviour.

She hates me. Absolutely hates me now she wont come near me and puffs up and hisses. If I try to coax her with treats she swats at me with claws. What should I do? Will she ever like me again? (

[Lilith]

Oh no ...

It's dreadful when this happens. But she'll get over it. Don't try to touch her for the time being, just go on talking to her and telling her she's a good girl, and give her however long it takes to come round.

This happens to all of us; I accidentally trod on one of mine (back leg) the other night on the way to the loo in the dark and she let out such a yell. Luckily she's soppy and forgave me, but I imagine Yuki will take longer. My Molly would have.

You've given her a lot of love and that will stand you in good stead; you must be feeling so awful right now but try not to blame yourself; it WAS an accident and she WILL come round.

They're pretty tough; you've only to watch two cats playing, bashing themselves against furniture etc; sounds like it's her pride that's hurt more than anything and she's had a fright, but yes, a good idea to consult the vet if anything seems amiss.

All the very very best

[babblino]

About the bashing around thing I can agree. Yuki has on multiple occasions ran head first into thing. She'll also jump and do flips sometimes when playing with her wand toys, only to knock her body into a table etc.

I was just so scared. The noise she made was gut wrenching. The best thing I can compare it to is the noise the kitten made in that one video where he freaks out over a lizard on the floor. For a second I was sure I'd see her on the floor struggling to stand (my foot came down on her backside). I'm just glad she is fine. I always jokingly tell my mother how much Yuki hates me and how I wish I had picked her sister (who was a lot more docile). Of course I don't mean it, I picked her because I wanted a cat who was more lively, although knowing the conditions the two were raised in I wish I had the money at the time to buy both of them.

She was on the bed with my mother today and I sat down to talk with my mum, ignoring Yuki. Yuki immediatelly puffed up and yowled at me. I ignored it but it did sadden me. Yuki is a grumpy and sassy kitty so I get the feeling that even if she forgives me, there will still be a part of her that remains wary towards me.

[Ruth B]

We have all done it, stepped back or forward and suddenly found a paw or tail under our foot, the feline yell and vanishing act, us following them as best we can trying not to panic and imagining the worst 'I sorry, I didn't mean to, are you ok, let me check' etc. The worst for me was when Blue our old Ragdoll was sat behind my chair, one of those office ones with castors. I moved back slightly and rolled onto his tail. He shrieked fit to wake the dead and ran leaving a big patch of tail fur on the floor. I race after him imagining crushed tail bones and amputations. When I finally get him giving my those big blue eyes wanting to know why I had hurt him, he was fine, I had just caught some fur under the castor.

A friend also had a Ragdoll, but had it as a kitten, he came up with a theory that the Ragdolls renown placid personality is not actually inbred but due to repeated blunt head trauma as a kitten. She would regularly run head first into items of furniture or kitchen units while chasing balls of paper around the house.