Litter tray issues

[Pit-a-pat]

Hi,

I am new here, I thought I would come see what its like around here :] I have used this site a lot to look at kittens and cats that need rehoming, but not the forum!

I would love a bit of advice.

I have a 6 month old kitten who is very particular about his toilet and was that way from the start - I have had him only over a month now. He seemed quite distressed by his toilet and it took him about 24 hours to actually use it when he first arrived - but I wasn’t worried, as it was all new to him (but it was a celebration when he did!) He always cries and makes a big fuss before using his tray, and at times went to his toilet and left having not used it, and so I took him to the vet as I was worried he was in pain as the crying got quite loud in the days before the vet appointment :-/ They gave him a shot of anti biotics in case it was a urine infection. He was still very particular but it didnt seem as distressing, and the crying wasn’t as loud, but he still did litter dances (in a stressy way) for a while before finally using his toilet.
This evening he is really struggling and has been crying a lot, he went to use his toilet, then left having not weed and spent the next hour meowing. He did eventually go back to do a wee (an hour later!) but the struggle is a worry. And it’s constant, but sometimes seems less worrying then other times.
I have four litter trays (as I have a second cat and he is fairly new) he was using them all at one point, but now only uses one. I plan to get another litter tray for the living room (and I will slowly remove some, as 5 is excessive! I might be able to already remove two quite soon.

Could it be something anti biotics wouldn’t have cured? I am slightly concerned after this evenings massive struggle. he is particular about food thats out too, scrapes all around it and covers it if he can, but it sometimes feels less like he is being particular but more like he is struggling or in pain. Does anyone here have any thoughts on this at all?

Thanks a lot!

[Kay]

It does sound as if another vet visit is needed, and soon to be on the safe side, as he could have crystals partially blocking his uretha, and a full blockage is an emergency.

Could you video him in the tray to show the vet?

[Pit-a-pat]

He is still urinating, I know its an emergency if he doesn’t, I am guessing it could be a partial blockage then. I will video it next time, that is a good idea. Thank you!

[booktigger]

They should have done a urine sample first to get the right antibiotics and they often require two lots of treatment. I'm assuming he is neutered?

[Pit-a-pat]

Yes, he is neutered. The vet did not do a urine sample, he just gave him a shot of anti biotics. Reading that has made me a bit annoyed, as it’s possibly a waste of a vet trip, I think though if I bring him in again they will want to do that. Thank you

[Ruth B]

There are a lot of broad spectrum antibiotics which will normally deal with any bacterial infection. The main difference is whether the bacterium is gram+ or gram-, one is far rarer than the other and there are less antibiotics available to treat it (I can't remember which is rare, but I think it is gram-).

You then have the resistance problem. Some bacteria are becoming resistant to some antibiotics, so I think they are using the commonest antibiotic first and saving the others for when it doesn't work, to try and stop more bacteria becoming resistant to the various types of antibiotic. The less an antibiotic is used the fewer bacteria are resistant and the more effective the drug remains.

Finally of course there are virus, for which antibiotics are useless. I don't think these are normally the cause of urine infections, but frequently cause respiratory infections, which is why they don't like to prescribe antibiotics for coughs and colds. In the case of a really bad viral infection antibiotics can be useful to help prevent other infections walking in while the immune system is busy fighting the virus.

So, no, your vet trip wasn't wasted, it just sounds like your vet is trying a common option first before trying the more expensive ones and is trying to help keep as many antibiotics as effective for as long as possible.

[Pit-a-pat]

Thank you so much for that information
Yes that makes sense. That is probably exactly what the vet did.
Thank you! He did not seem worried (the vet) but he did say to come back if the problem persists
My cat can get whingey like that for lots of things, so it’s hard to know whether its pain or him being madly paritcular.
He is slightly constipated (he shouldn’t be, as he is on a mostly wet food diet which I sometimes add extras water in. I leave biscuits down at night for him) he is pooing daily but it’s quite hard and in a few bits, he often gets one bit stuck to his bum (not runny, hard!) which I have to remove - I was told by a friend it could be that he is just associating his litter tray with pain and that I should deal with the constipation before worrying and booking a vet - what do people think? I was going to get some pumpkin to add to his food, and I have been adding salmon oil to his food too

[Kay]

so his unproductive visits to the litter tray could be due to constipation rather than a urinary problem?

you could try Katalax or one of the many malt pastes made for furballs, as they all have a laxative effect, and most cats are only too happy to lick it off your finger

[Pit-a-pat]

Well, after talking to a friend last night, we thought it could be a possibility. BUT, he kicks a fuss before he WEES too. like last night, he whined a lot, went to his tray, kicked about, and left, and then whined for about an hour before going back and urinating

So it’s hard to know really.

I actually did just that before reading your post :] I have some hairball paste which I gave him to lick off my finger.

I am thinking I will try get his poo to be less hard, and if the problem persists after that - I will go to the vet.

He is a much better drinker than my adult cat, and they both eat wet food with added water, so I am not sure why his poos are hard like that.

[Pit-a-pat]

I will take a video of him this evening - I forgot this morning! The other day, he went to his tray cried and sat in it for some seconds. He did go back and did a poo that time.
Thats why I am not sure whether its to do with constipation or a urinary problem! do people think it would be ok to try tackle the slight constipation before booking a vet?
I say slight because he IS pooing daily still.

[booktigger]

There are a lot of broad spectrum antibiotics which will normally deal with any bacterial infection. The main difference is whether the bacterium is gram+ or gram-, one is far rarer than the other and there are less antibiotics available to treat it (I can't remember which is rare, but I think it is gram-).

You then have the resistance problem. Some bacteria are becoming resistant to some antibiotics, so I think they are using the commonest antibiotic first and saving the others for when it doesn't work, to try and stop more bacteria becoming resistant to the various types of antibiotic. The less an antibiotic is used the fewer bacteria are resistant and the more effective the drug remains.

Finally of course there are virus, for which antibiotics are useless. I don't think these are normally the cause of urine infections, but frequently cause respiratory infections, which is why they don't like to prescribe antibiotics for coughs and colds. In the case of a really bad viral infection antibiotics can be useful to help prevent other infections walking in while the immune system is busy fighting the virus.

So, no, your vet trip wasn't wasted, it just sounds like your vet is trying a common option first before trying the more expensive ones and is trying to help keep as many antibiotics as effective for as long as possible.

I agree, except for the fact that only 2% of cystitis cases are infection related, so metacam and cystaid are normally a better option than antibiotics. I have been known to just take a urine sample to be tested rather than drag the cat up for a check though.

[Pit-a-pat]

Booktigger - how do you get a urine sample? I would definitely prefer that! He is actually much easier to take to the vet then my other cat - he is way less effected by it, but obviously would be easier not to have to! I can’t think how I would get a urine sample though??

[Ruth B]

We had to try once, fortunately it was with my old Ragdoll who was very easy going about everything.

We were given a tiny pack of non absorbent litter for him to use, a pipette and a sample tube. You put it in a clean tray, let the cat do his business in it, pipette up the liquid from the bottom of the tray and put it in the tube. So simple on paper.

Blue was used to using a litter tray that can take 7 - 8 litres of litter and only be 1/3 full, the bag of litter we were given was only slightly bigger than a crisp packet, it wouldn't have filled a kitten litter tray.

We did find a clean small container to put it in and tried putting that at the front of the litter tray where he liked to go. Didn't work, he didn't like it there. In the end I waited with the small tray by the litter tray and when he came to use it, waited until he had had a dig around and took up position with he front paws on the rim as he always did then I managed to slide the small tray in under his backside just as he was about to use the normal litter tray.

I don't think I have had another cat before or since that would have let me do that.

Next time they wanted one, I paid for him to have an overnight stay at the vet and let them get the sample themselves.

The other way I have heard vet can do it is with a long hypodermic needle straight into the bladder, the idea makes me wince a bit, but I think it might be the simpler solution with cats.

Of course it was a few years ago and there might be special litter trays that allow the fluid to filter out into a container. If there aren't then someone should make one, they could make a fortune for cats that need regular testing done.

[Lilith]

This is the stuff - https://www.amazon.co.uk/KatKor-Urine-S ... B004FG82Q4

Miraculously Mouse does use it for her hyperthyroid tests. I'm very lucky, I know, but with an obliging cat it does work

[MarySkater]

I once needed to get a urine sample from a cat. Fortunately he wasn't shy about using the litter tray with me right beside him. I waited till he squatted, then slid a clean plastic bag under him from behind, accepting that I would get my hand peed on in the process. I managed to get a reasonable puddle of urine on the plastic bag, and drew it into a plastic syringe which the vet had given me. Wrapped the syringe and its contents and delivered it to the vet.

[Pit-a-pat]

Thank you so much everyone who responded.
I have popped that litter into my amazon basket and I will buy it soon. He is very particular but I bet I can be sitting next to him, he actually does much better with his toilet when I am in the room withhim and the door is closed - I know because every night I sit with him in his room as I have him seperate at night so my adult cat feels safe as he is still quite new and likes to shove her out her spots and steal them! lol. Whenever I sit with him, he does cry still, but he seems to do well with the containment and doesn’t go as mad and does his business really well, I scoop it immedietely and it seems much better then when he has the whole place to dart about, so its possible I can sneak a urine sample - the only thing is he is VERY fussy about which litter I use but I will give it a go.
My vet did syringe urine from my other cat, so its good to know there are other options if I fail
I will watch how he goes for a bit (I still need to catch him on camera as I would like to show my vet a video before booking an appointment to know whether they think it’s necessary)
Thanks again
fingers crossed it’s nothing to worry about!

[booktigger]

Yes, on paper it is simple, in reality it depends on the cat!! Good luck. I remember resorting to taking Buster to the vets for the afternoon to be put in one of the cages, he wee'd on the bed and slept in the litter tray

[Pit-a-pat]

:] oh no! How typical! Cats. Haha.

[Pit-a-pat]

Hi, I hope it is ok to come back to this.
The reason I am is because the cat I was talking about meowed a lot this morning, visited the two trays he uses mostly, then left. I fell asleep as it was early early am post their 5am breakfast, but I know he doesn’t usually use the other litter trays (I have 4 at the moment, which is working really well with my two cats) he doesn’t use the two my other cat likes to use, he very strictly, as far as I am aware, uses two specific litter trays, and when I woke up, they were clean dry :-/ So, still 3 hours after his unproductive visits I am guessing he hasn’t been

I took him to the vet a couple of days ago about the crying when weeing - as I am almost sure it’s worse at least when he urinates - she took a urine sample, which was CLEAR. So he didn’t seem to have a urine infection and he concentrates his urine well - but it seems like it could be more complicated? I don’t know enough about it. She prescribed metacam (Loxicom really)- and I had been giving him cystease but have actually stopped that this week (I will order some more). He has been on metacam for 4 days, so we just have one more day left and I Would have expected it to work :[

Another thing to add which may be useful to know. When he first arrived to me, he had a brown lump by his bum which smelled of poo, I emailed the person I got him from asking what that might be and they didn’t respond so I assumed it was dry poo and dried to wash it with cat safe soap and water. It turns out it was a big scab from his neuter wound :[ I wish wish wish the person I got him from would have told me about that as I would have left it well alone. I also wish I knew he was neutered only days before coming to me.. either way it is what it is, and I irritated the wound, which caused him to lick it a lot and open the wound. He had an anti biotic injection for that too, in case it got infected - it’s healing nicely now - but the vet mentioned it could be a cause? I should have asked how and why as it is months later now!

He is actually using his litter tray as I write this, which is 4 hours after his unproductive visit, and he is making a big scene. I will have to check to see whether he actually urinates.

I hope I have covered all the facts, if anyone has any thoughts or information I would be so so grateful as I am sad he seems in pain, and worried about the unproductive visits


—-Before I pressed send I went to give the boy a cuddle, I left the above unedited, but to ADD, I went to sit with him in the room where his litter trays are, I closed the door so we were contained and it worked, he did a wee! I have had to do this trick a few times.. It does look like its a struggle though. He sits quite close to the litter so its hard to tell as because of that when he urinates it is silent, but I am almost sure it takes him a while... what could it be if not a urine infection? I feel sad that its hard for him , I really expected metacam to help :[ —-

[Pit-a-pat]

In every other way he is fine, plays, eats (albeit fussy!) etc.

He shouldn’t be stressed as he has a really good life - I try to give them everything and I love them both to absolute bits. But he was quite stressed out when I had to seperate him at night in a seperate room alone, I made the room lovely and cosy for him, but he struggled with being alone - the reason I did this is because he was very new and mainly boisterous with my adult cat, biting her neck and taking over her spots, so needed her to feel safe at night which was amazing for her confidence, but it was a stress factor for my little boy, he is out and free roaming the house now which I am really pleased about. And I am leaving him and my adult cat to work things out totally - unless their fight gets completely out of hand, only then will I step in. I Am adding this, as I know stress can cause urine issues. So throwing in all the information possible.
I WAS also stopping him bully her out of her spots and bite her neck - as she really hated it, and when I interfered it helped HER confidence. I would do time outs. He has much better boundaries now, and she is more confident and fights for herself well because of it, so I let them get on with it and gently distract now when necessary

[Sniper1]

I think you need to add the two issues together here a 6 month old with these problems is not good on his diet he should not be constipated and it could be his constipation and its cause is leading to highly concentrated urine causing bladder problems I would be concerned about kidney function and PKD or hereditary kidney issues

[Pit-a-pat]

I so hope you are wrongn about this concern

He is no longer constipated - I should have mentioned that. He is concentrating his urine well apparenty - vet did a urine sample with a needle.
He is making a big scene though and unproductive visits to his litter tray. Every time I see it I take him into the room where his preferred toilet is and close the door, it works magic every time. He will go straight to his tray and do a wee. Making sounds... but still he goes - otherwise he could easily go hours avoiding it. Last day of metacam today and nothing has changed

[Pit-a-pat]

Just to add, yes its true, he needs enticing to eat and seems to have very little interest in food! Which is a shame. He does eat eventually though, bits - I would like to see him eating double to Ben honest as he is a growing kitten and my adult cat eats double what he eats and exercises much less. I am worried now after your post sniper - I am hoping so so bad he does not have kidney issues.

[Pit-a-pat]

Sorry, three posts in a row! But wouldnt he be drinking a lot and urinating a lot if that was the case? He does drink, but not a huge amount and I haven’t noticed that he urinates too much?

If this continues I will take him back to the vet for further tests? Its a shame as he was supposedly healthy! I feel sad that it might be painful for him - I put my hope in metacam helping that!

[Red wine lady]

Hello you

My cat Oscar suffers from stress...he has attachment issues and wants his human slaves by his side day and night! If we are not there he gets stressed which brings on bladder problems and he pee's outside the litter box. We found out this is the reason his previous owner got rid! It is sooo common in cats, but very annoying.

I found Cystophan (I buy it from Amazon...cheaper than the vets). Its very good for bladder problems & calms them. The dose is 2 a day for 2 weeks and then 1 a day, but frankly I keep Oscar on 2 per day and this de-stresses him (however he is a very large cat). This is a herbal remedy, so it would hurt.

I tried everything and this was the best thing I found...frankly he is on his final warning. Google Cystophan and see what others say.

Good luck x

[Pit-a-pat]

Hi

Thank you, I ordered more cystease now, which is a cheaper version of cystophan - it has similar ingredients (you might be interested with it being cheaper!)
I have also order zylklene and beaphar calm spot on, so actually I planned to tackle possible stress before taking him back to the vet. I am going to give him a spot of weekly and a two week course of zylklene and cystease! If he still cries before urinating like he is now, I will take him back to the vet for further tests.
Its possible it started as stress, because he also struggles to be alone, and unfortunately I had to seperate him at night, and in the beginning, during the day too - as he was stressing my older cat out a lot. Now that she has grown in confidence and is used to him, I dont seperate them at all - even though he still pounces at her, but he has got so much better bless him and she is fine. He is much happier this way too and I am too because of it - I did not like having to seperate him at night knowing he didn’t like it

Thanks again. I will do just this and tackle potential stress.

I wish you luck with your boy, and patience too. He is lucky to be with you, lots of love acceptance and patience to him and to you xx

[Pit-a-pat]

Just a thought red wine lady - does your cat get on with other cats?

My adult cat had separation anxiety actually, she would really suffer when I left the house for too long, which was one of my biggest motives for getting a second cat - because he was so boisterous, it was hard for her, but really, I think she is doing well with the company and appreciates it - she likes other cats though (more so then my newer cat actually... he is more territorial it seems) so maybe if your cat liked other cats, you can get him a friend? Even if they aren’t exactly friends, he might appreciate the company when you are out
There might be a reason he gets so anxious when you are out, maybe something to do with his history before you took him in?

[Red wine lady]

Just a thought red wine lady - does your cat get on with other cats?

My adult cat had separation anxiety actually, she would really suffer when I left the house for too long, which was one of my biggest motives for getting a second cat - because he was so boisterous, it was hard for her, but really, I think she is doing well with the company and appreciates it - she likes other cats though (more so then my newer cat actually... he is more territorial it seems) so maybe if your cat liked other cats, you can get him a friend? Even if they aren’t exactly friends, he might appreciate the company when you are out
There might be a reason he gets so anxious when you are out, maybe something to do with his history before you took him in?

Oscar thinks he is a dog and bloody HATES cats! We put him in a cattery in November and he had to be moved to the isolated run...as he hissed and paced up and down due to his neighbours! The previous owner got a kitten for company and Oscar nearly killed it...so they got rid of the poor kitten.

Oscar is an indoor cat, brought up in a small house...he was ruined (still is). Sadly baby came along and his peeing started...the couple split and moved house which added to his woes. His previous owner could not take any more...hence he ended up in rescue.

We are moving in a couple of weeks (!) to a more rural house and we have decided to let him out (slowly), as I personally think that Oscar needs more simulation. We know its a risk, as there is a busy lane near...but the back garden leads directly onto open fields.

I have also bought some zylklene for the run up to the house move...I intend to give him both! Good luck with Cystease, it's the same as Cystophan and without that, we would have got rid of Oscar...which would have been heart breaking.

Re vets...my vet did a scan on Oscar, put him on antibiotics, put him on special food, blah blah...thank goodness he has insurance. However, this is purely behavioural, I could go to a behaviourist but they tend to give him Zylklene and Cytease anyway. If the rescue centre had advised us that he had issues with peeing, we would not have got him. However, we did and we adore the fat boy xx

[Pit-a-pat]

Hey red wine lady! Sorry for the late response

Aw bless him (and you!) it’s a shame he doesn;t like cats, but I have to say I am impressed that his previous owners got rid of the kitten rather then him - it sounds like they did their best and loved him too.

I have to say, I think mine also would do amazingly with going outdoors as he has a lot of energy. I try to play with him 4 times a day, used to be for an hour each time! But have cut it down to half an hour each time as thats a more sustainable amount of time that I can keep up consistently. I dont have outdoor space, but also he isnt allowed outdoors as he is a pedigree cat and that was one of the rules.. he is actually very good though at using his litter box - touch wood - he does use it. He is just really struggling with it! He will do big litter dances. And could easily avoid it for hours for some reason. I have four litter trays, and all different kinds! I think he struggles when he goes, but the thing is I noticed yesterday he made a big scene before doing a poo too. I don’t understand :[ I hope its not painful for him! If its when he poos and wee’s then I have no idea what it could be, if not behavioural - but I dont understand why its such a struggle for him :[ he will meow meow meow loudly, visit all the litter trays, maybe sit in one, leave. Circle the whole apartment, go back to them etc etc.
If I go in the room where his preferred litter tray is and close the door, he will go straight to his tray but still cries pretty loudly, kicking about, and then he will do a wee

Good luck with the move, and good luck with letting him outdoors. It sounds like it’s for the best. I really hope it helps the issue you are having! As he is clearly a well love spoilt little thing, just how it should be, but issues like that can be so frustrating and I respect the amount of patience you have and you havent given up on him and doing everything to help the problem

I did laugh at your last comment GOOOD LUCK to you and to Oscar!! And thank you for your response.

Here is a link that may be of use to you
https://www.petforums.co.uk/threads/is- ... ad.371806/
Someone (a vet) has taken the time to write a LOAD of information - I came across is even though I am not having this exact problem. Hopefully its of some use to you xx