New cat litter issues ?Guarding

[susand]

Help! I adopted an 18 month tortie girl, Lula, from a shelter 2 weeks ago. She was advertised on here as being suitable to be rehomed with another cat. I kept her in one room, like you’re supposed to and very gradually I introduced her to my long established 12 year old boy, Walter, over the course of a week. Once they seemed fairly ok with each other I let Lula out into the rest of the flat. I have 3 litter trays down in different places, however, which ever one Walter decides to use, she follows him, watches him do his business, then pounces on him when he steps out of the tray. There is a short fight (just half a second or so), then they do the slow walk round each other, Walter does some hissing and then things settle down.

However, Walter appears to be getting more and more stressed by it. He went to two trays this evening but then started looking around, obviously worried about what was going to happen once he stepped in the tray, changed his mind and walked off. In the end, when he went into the bathroom, I shut the door on him so he could use the tray in there in peace. Sure enough, as soon as Lula heard him scratching at the litter, she rushed to the door, trying to get in!

I heard open trays are better than enclosed ones in this situation so the cat doesn’t feel too trapped so I took took the lids off all of them. I’ve also tried placing them sensitivity to give as much in the way of privacy and an escape route as possible. In addition, I have a ‘Feliway Friends’ diffuser on the go 24/7.

I work so can’t police the situation all the time. I’m really concerned I’m going to have to return Lula to the rescue centre, which will be a crying shame because she is a lovely little cat in every other respect. Unfortunately though, I can’t leave Walter in this stressful situation because he is obviously really unhappy and has gone from a confident,chirpy, chatty chap to being withdrawn and fearful in the space of a week.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

PS. The rest of the time, they seem fairly ok with each other. They are not friends but they aren’t fighting and will stay in the same room together. They both sleep on my bed at night an obviously choose to do so as I leave the bedroom door open so they can come and go as they please.

[Mollycat]

2 weeks is probably too soon to let them loose together. Go back a step in the introduction process. This isn't about litter trays it's about them not being ready to share everything and if you don't go back and proceed only when they are comfortable with each step, you could easily end up with problems.

Also, "fine with other cats" has to be taken with a pinch of salt. So much depends on the other cat and the situation. My Molly would never tolerate a newcomer, but when I got her I never separated her from my resident cat and there was never any issue, because she was new. "Fine with other cats" completely ignores personality too, cats are individuals. I might be fine with men when asked to live with my husband, but I would definitely not be fine with men is expected to live with a different man that someone else chose for me!

But 2 weeks is very early days, go back to earlier in the introduction process to give them both a chance to get on better and iron out these issues instead of letting them develop.

[susand]

Thanks Mollycat. The rescue advised a week but I think you are right. I put her back in the bathroom straight after reading your post. it’s very large about the size of a double bedroom but not ideal for a young cat for a long period so hopefully one more week should do it?? It’s really weird because last night they both slept on my bed within about a foot of each other but the litter guarding started again this morning and Walter obviously had his legs crossed because as soon as she was safely shut away, he went straight to the litter tray and had a wee.

What should I do, let them spend a little time together each day, or separate them completely for a few days? She is now miowing her head off and scratching at the door so I’m really worried I’m not going to get any sleep tonight! The alternative is locking Walter in the bathroom and letting her have the rest of the flat but that doesn’t seem fair.

PS: You may remember my previous post about nearly adopting a kitten who turned out to have cat flu. If you remember, I was considering giving up on finding Walter a new companion but decided to persevere. I’m not sure that was a good move now, tbh.

How long do you think I should give it before admitting defeat? I’ll be devastated if I have to send her back to the rescue as she wasn’t doing well there (the people at the rescue were amazed when I sent them a video of her enjoying tummy rubs as she was really timid there and they were really delighted at how she’s come on in such a short time of being in a home environment).

[Mollycat]

I'm not the expert on introductions as all mine have happened organically when a cat decided to move in and the resident accepted the newcomer, except for Bobby who desperately needed a companion and I had to get Molly for him. So I've never been through it.

But I don't think you can count it in time, it's in terms of acceptance and stages and progress. It can take days or months. I would follow the guided steps separating them completely, scent swapping, being able to smell and hear each other, then see each other, swapping places, then limited supervised time and so on. It is a long process but a very worthwhile investment, lots of people here can give you more detail and their success stories. All I can tell you is it's about having both cats fully comfortable for a while before moving on to the next step, and rushing is likely to cause problems.

[susand]

Thanks Mollycat. I discussed things with my vet earlier who was quite pessimistic about the situation. She didn’t out and out say I should take Lula back but she did bring that option up and I could tell that’s what she thought would be best. That Lula is creating holy Jo about being confined to the bathroom again isn’t a good sign either apparently as this is a sign of stress for her and isn’t going to make re-introductions to Walter easy.

I’ve been in touch with the lady from the rescue centre who was very kind. She said I could take as much time as I liked but if it didn’t work out I could take Lula back and pointed out that because I videoed her enjoying a fuss, they could now put that on their website, which would be a selling point so she may be rehomed quite quickly because of that. Who knows. Lula has spent the entire day wailing and scratching at the door, which is probably going to go on through the night as well. My neighbour’s bedroom is right next door to that room so it’ll probably keep her awake as well. I’m feeling as stressed as the cats are right now. Not good. I’ll sleep on it tonight (if Lula will let me) and decide what to do tomorrow.

On the plus side, now Walter has realised Lula is safely behind bars, he’s perked up a bit and come for a fuss so his recent change in personality is obviously reversible.

[Ruth B]

I have to agree it is early days and hopefully they can settle down together.

One suggestion I would put forward, as they seem to have a degree of acceptance to each other is to have them out together when you can keep an eye on them so neither is confined 24 hours a day. I tended to do this when I had a new cat as my resident cat was used to being able to go out side when they wanted. While I was around I could set the cat flap to in only and let them out knowing that the new comer was safe inside, and the resident cat could get back in when they wanted. At night and while we were at work though the new cat had to be confined to the lounge so the cat flap could be left open. I think it gave them enough time to interact and get used to each other and then a bit of quiet time to think about it all and feel safe in their own place. Before shutting Lula in I would suggest a nice long play session, and then shut her in with her food and a bed and hopefully she will at least eat and sleep for a while. Try and get into a routine of when she can be out and when she has to be shut in and hopefully she will start to accept it, it would also give Walter the security of knowing that she will be shut away at a certain tme.

I would also suggest that if you see her following Walter to the litter tray try and distract her with a treat or a toy rather than reprimanding her after she has had a go at him.

[Mollycat]

Is the bathroom really the only place one cat can be separated from the other?

She sounds like a strong and confident personality, so confinement after having the run of the house might well be tough for her. Be warned that vets are often told in vet school that Torties account for 90% of their problem behaviour cases, so your Lula could be getting judged unfairly due to her colour.

The litter tray pouncing is bothering me. As I said before I had no problems with introducing Molly to Bobby, and I never separated them, but there were things I noticed and watched closely. One of them was litter tray pouncing. Molly was 6 and Bobby 9 but she was a young 6 and he was a sedate old 9 so really the mental age difference was probably more like 6-7 years than 3. He wanted to cuddle and mutual groom, she would have none of physical contact, She wanted rough play and pounce and playfight, he was terrified of it. She would hide, ambush, stalk, pounce and even pretend to bite his throat, and her best ambush was as he came back into the living room from using the bathroom tray. He got used to it and would skirt around the long way from her hiding place, but she would still play. They got used to it together and it worked, she never got the rough play she wanted and he never got the mutual grooming he wanted, but they were happy together.

I'm thinking the scratching in the litter sound might trigger the other cat's hunting instincts as it could sound similar enough to prey for them to make believe. If I'm right, then giving them a little longer to get to know each other and being watchful of this specific situation might be enough for them to get to know each other better and reach their own agreement, which might involve a little fun like Lula wants or to be left in peace like Walter wants or anything in between. Obviously as Walter is currently stressed out by it yes you need to help them but I wouldn't give up on Lula too easily if it's been a couple of weeks and in other ways they seem to be doing well, that's actually pretty positive.

[susand]

Well Lula was going berserk in the bathroom for the whole afternoon. I went in there to go to the loo and say hello but despite my best efforts she escaped as I tried to leave. Walter hissed at her when he saw her. I dont think chasing her round and round to get her back in the bathroom is the way forward.

Unfortunately, Walter, by choice, is an indoor cat and generally goes out in the garden only very occasionally, usually when it is very sunny and I'm out there too. He has started asking to go out more now Lula's here though and it's quite pitiful watching him sitting forlornly on the patio in the rain all by himself.

If Lula is not able to tolerate being confined for even part of the day, which appears to be the case, I don't think I'm going to be able to make it work. It's not fair on her and it is certainly not fair on my poor old Wally Woo.

All the signs are that I'm going to end up having to give her back to the rescue so I think I'm going to bite the bullet and phone them tomorrow to ask when I can take her in, rather than put Wally (and me) through any more. I feel terrible and it is such a shame because she is absolutely beautiful and I know I would end up loving her to bits and pieces if it were just me and her and this could be the perfect home for her if it wasnt for Walter but he was here first and I love him too.

He lived with Parsley quite happily from the day they were introduced, so he can live with another cat, but he is not going to ever be genuinely happy living with Lula, I dont think. It's a shame and I'm heartbroken for her, but there it is.

PS: I have never reprimanded her for bothering Walter Ruth, I know that doesn't help, however, I haven't distracted her with toys or treats either, incase she interprets it as a reward for her behaviour. Besides, I am at work quite alot of the time so I cant be there acting as loo monitor much of the time anyway. I genuinely think this isn't the right home for her, due to the Walter situation and I cant see that any feasible intervention is going to make them live happily ever after really. I guess the 'blind date' didn't work out as so many don't.

[Ruth B]

Sorry if it sounded like I was saying you had reprimanded her, what I was trying to say was that there were better option if it came to it, and distracting her the moment Walter went to the litter box would give him a few minutes peace to do the necessary with out it being a reward for pouncing on him.

In the end only you can really know what is happening and letting the stress levels build all round won't help anyone, human or cat. Sometimes the best thing we can do for them is to let them go back, and provide the rescue with more information on what would be a more suitable home. I had hoped that we could give you some options to try and make it work but you are the one that is going through it all and are in the best place to make the decision.

Many years ago I had a mother and daughter pair. I found out the mother was terminally ill and decided to adopt another young cat to be a playmate to the daughter and company for her when the mother cat died. It went horribly wrong. I ended up with what I know now was a dominance struggle between the mother who wasn't well, and the new cat. They never fought, but started marking territory, spraying and defecating around the house. First it was just the two doing it, then the daughter cat also joined in. I got to the point where i was dreading coming home from work not knowing what I'd find and have to clean up. After 3 months I gave in and returned the cat to the charity she came from, heartbroken and guilt ridden that i hadn't been able to make it work. My two almost instantly settled back down and went back to using the garden and trays the way they had before. I heard from the charity that the other cat had been kept separate from other cats for a week and in that time had never not used her litter tray. She was subsequently rehomed as an only cat, and they never heard anything to say she acted anything but well with her new owners. It took a lot of time and a lot of reading for me to realise that I had done the best thing possible when I sent her back. The stress levels in my house for those three months had gone through the roof, which isn't good for anyone and just provides positive feedback all round, making it worse. Sometimes we have to realise that what is best for all isn't really the outcome we would have wanted.

It sounds like you have made the decision to let her go back to the rescue, please try not to feel guilty, all the information and the video of her will help her them place her in a more suitable home, and somewhere out there i'm sure there is a nice laid back cat that would be the perfect companion to Walter. The mother cat mentioned above died on the 4th January, when no rescue was open for rehoming and we had a cat that was rather neurotic when left alone, she craved company. Fortunately my Mother helped out with a rescue where she lived and they had had a Ragdoll cat handed in over Christmas after his family had split up and the husband who had kept him commuted from Wales to London during the week, Blue wasn't happy with just a pet sitter coming in to feed him twice a day so he had been surrendered. My Mum's rescue were wondering about the best way to find him a home with someone who wanted a pet cat not a cheap pedigree. It was the perfect solution all round, he didn't even complain once during the two hour drive back home with us. Sometimes fate just sorts things out for us.

[susand]

Thanks Ruth. Yes, I have made the decision. It's a catch 22 situation. To restore relations I have to separate them and it has to be Lula, not Walter, that is confined otherwise it will make things worse, according to the vet, because she'll think the whole flat is hers if she is given the run of it and could then decide to try and see Walter off completely.

However, I cant confine Lula because it causes her too much distress, which will also make the situation worse.

They do settle for hours at a time but I can see the situation slowly escalating rather than improving overall and there was another argy bargy this morning, with a more prolonged attack, so she has to go.

The rescue have kindly agreed to take her back today. I am very sad about it and I am trying not to feel guilty but it's awful because she is a lovely little cat and I'm about to turn her world upside down.

[booktigger]

I'm sorry that you have had to make this decision, I've been in the same situation where the newcomer wasn't happy being confined and the existing cats weren't happy to the point my male cat was spraying daily- potentially my fault for coming home with a male rather than female, but when my female cat died, I kept him as an only cat. I persevered for 2 weeks before admitting defeat. Ironically it was my existing cat who liked to pounce as they were coming out of the tray, I had to take the cover off one of the trays as he would sit on it and tap them as they were leaving it!

[Mollycat]

i think the comment about feeling like a failure is such an important point - that's us, humans, with our human belief that we can make anything work. Must admit as I had no way to isolate my two it was my biggest fear, that it wouldn't work between them. No, we have to see things from our cats' point of view, which is often about intruders not companions. And for the newcomer, they are in a strange place with strange humans and in another cat's territory.

If Walter wants a friend, and only you can really know this, yes a friendly docile retired Ragdoll stud boy or something equally placid and gentle. Do be very honest when looking for one, a good breeder retiring their boy should know his character very well and be honest with you in return about the chances of this working out. I was very lucky that Bristol and Wales Cat Rescue completely understood the spoilt-sounding list of requirements I had, including the small indoor space and so on, and were fantastic in matching us up with Molly. Sadly not all rescues have such great resources and as I understand it all BWCR's cats live in foster homes not cages so they are properly assessed. Walter might need a similar level of care in choosing a new friend, if he really wants a friend at all.

[susand]

Well Lula is back at the shelter. I cried all the way home. She seemed to know where she was as we drove in and started miaowing, obviously petrified again. I nearly turned round there and then and drove her back home but let my head rule my heart for once. I do hope I’ve done the right thing. They took her from me and disappeared out of the room with her really quickly so I didn’t get chance to say goodbye which is sad but I guess they are busy. I’m in pieces now. Just sent a barking mad text to the rescue lady telling her if she couldn’t rehome her, I’d take her back. What was I thinking? She probably thinks I’m a nutcase now! She did send a nice text back though so I think she understands. Walter seems happier already and has gone back to mooching around aimlessly, rather than looking over his shoulder the whole time, so that’s a positive.

Thanks for your input Ruth B and Booktigger, it’s good to know other (good) people have had to do this and I’m not the only one finding herself in a situation she can’t handle and giving up a cat.

And thank you too Mollycat for your kind advice. I don’t think I’ll be looking for another cat though. Defo can’t go through that again.

[Mollycat]

Feeling so gutted for you, so often the right decision can still hurt so much. Walter can now relax and Lula has the chance of a wonderful life with the right home for her, after a little uncomfortable time back in the shelter. Thank you for posting, you are obviously such a kind and caring person with the best interests of all animals at heart. Best wishes to you and Walter.

[susand]

Thanks Mollycat.

[Ruth B]

I know how much you must be hurting now, I've been there and it cut me up for a long time afterwards wondering if i had done the right thing. Sometimes the best decisions hurt us the most. It lead to me learning a lot about cat behaviour meaning I could understand and help my own better, and hopefully I've helped a few people on here too with what I learnt. I can say I am sure you have done the right thing, while there was a small chance that things could have been resolved, from what you said I think it would have been a very long and stressful road for all involved with no guarantee of success at the end. Now the charity is armed with far more information about her and can find the home where she and everyone there can truly be happy. i'm really glad to hear that Walter is already getting back to his normal self, and as for the future, never say never, but wait and see what comes your way, things sometimes are meant to be.

Give yourself a big hug from me and give Walter one too

[susand]

Thanks you Ruth, that really helps. I have been agonising a bit, thinking may be I should have given it more time but my gut feeling was that it wouldn’t have made any real difference and it helps to know other people think so too.

[Mollycat]

I'd forgotten this - when I first realised my Boo needed a companion, my neighbour had a cat called Tabby that he had decided to rehome. We tried her with Boo and that didn't work out, she was never going to accept sharing. I felt so bad about our list of demands when I spoke to the rescue and explained the whole situation, but the lady was so kind and to my surprise she said no, you know when it's just never going to work. I had no experience of introducing cats at all then so it was really reassuring. And she also reassured me that what I had was not a list of demands it was my real circumstances and my cat's needs. In the end my neighbour took her back and found her a new home himself, and we were put in touch with Molly. But just the reassurance from the rescue that it's ok it doesn't always work out and you can know pretty quickly, that helped too.

[susand]

Thanks Mollycat.

[susand]

Just to let everyone know, I asked the lady at the rescue centre to let me know when Lula was rehomed. She contacted me yesterday to tell me that a lady has adopted her and took her home on Friday, so alls well that ends well.

[booktigger]

Aww, glad to know she wasn't waiting long