Found a month old stray kitten and brought it home, now what?

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Joe_Danger
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Re: Found a month old stray kitten and brought it home, now what?

Post by Joe_Danger »

Thanks!!! Yeah I'm specifically a children's book illustrator.
I am a huge RPG fan but I only enjoy the video game versions, especially Japanese RPGs such as Dragon Quest (speaking of which, the Olympic games this year opened with music from Dragon Quest and featured many tracks of my favorite Japanese role playing games :) I don't follow sports or the Olympics but that was incredible)
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Video games, cartoons and Japanese anime have been an inspiration for my own art since I was a kid, so even tho I'm legally blind I ended up being an illustrator and loving every SECOND of it :D I've never once felt in all these years that what I do for a living is a job or a chore, I'm so grateful to my family, professors and everyone who has shown support over the years for me to get to where I'm at in life.
I'm 37 now, soon to be 38 and I couldn't be happier with where I'm at in life career wise. It's just amazing.

Finding work has been easy so far, never had any issues or periods where I've had a hard time finding a fun project to work on, but I will look into the stuff you mentioned, thanks for the info.
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Re: Found a month old stray kitten and brought it home, now what?

Post by Mollycat »

I am in love with your firebird for Anna Svetchnikov! The internet is such an amazing place where you can meet people you would never meet without it. Someone gave me a book for Christmas, I said something about it on social media and the next thing you know the author popped up with a comment!
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Re: Found a month old stray kitten and brought it home, now what?

Post by Joe_Danger »

Good thing is that nobody is afraid of spaska per se, when I was preparing wet food just now, separating it for everyone and all that they were lined up.
Mila in the midle, on one side of her Spaska on the other Kala with Casper nearby

When the food was served this is how they lined up
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If there was any bad blood between them this wouldn't be happening, or this

Spaska is frantically playing right next to Mila on the bed in my comptuer room as Mila is grooming herself to sleep right after the meal
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So we've established they feel comfortable around one another, we need to address the litterbox scaring tho asap
I've been keeping a watchful eye on the cats all day as much as I can when not on the phone with friends or doing stuff, but Spaska still managed to bother Casper, she was watching him pee standing on the rim this did't bother him, but when he switched litterboxes to poop and she wnet there he got cut off, tho immediatley went back to finishing up as soon as I took Spaska.
You can keep an eye on Spaska all day and she still manages to sneak up on them. Keeping her confined to my comptuer room during the day with the door closed is starting to annoy her even with toys and me being in the rom with her and as soon as she starts meowing the other cats gather at the door lol

Well that's all for today, I don't think much more progress than this can be made unless we find some way to stop Spaska from bothering the adults in the litter boxes.
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Re: Found a month old stray kitten and brought it home, now what?

Post by fjm »

I think covered trays have already been mentioned - perhaps adding a covered tray short term as an option for the adult cats might be possible? At least that way they could arrange themselves to see her coming, and if they don't like the covered tray there are still the others to use. A cardboard box with a hole cut out set over an ordinary tray would be a cheap way of experimenting.
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Re: Found a month old stray kitten and brought it home, now what?

Post by Joe_Danger »

I might give it a try tho I think knowing my cats it would freak them out more, Spaska would just block the exit and they'd have nowhere to escape from other than that one opening where as like this they can jump ot of wherever.
Casper is good tho, he isn't affected by this in the least, Kala to a lesser extend.
Mila went about her peeing as usual last night, Spaska was sleeping so Mila had her 2:30-3AM bathroom break as normal, wasn't reluctant to enter the litterbox or nothing.

Interesting thing I noticed just now, Casper went to take a pee and didn't mind Spaska being there, I still carefully picked her up tho just in case and when I touched her she was purring.
I think this is her way of trying to bond with them, it's just when she gets too up close and personal is when the girls get annoyed.
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Re: Found a month old stray kitten and brought it home, now what?

Post by Joe_Danger »

Well Mila is still very much reluctant to going by herself
This morning Spska bolted towards Casper as he was going to the bathroom, thankfully he didn't seem to mind but it wasn't something I could stop. I called her and she did come running, I offered food, but as soon as Casper started burying in the litterbox she ran back to him. He didn't seem to mind tho.
Kala is reluctant about going to the litterbox but not as much as Mila

Mila seems to go on her own now once in 24+ hours, at night when Spaska is asleep

I'm going to lookg for a big enough covered litter box tomorrow but I don't think that's going to help, I think it's just going to make Mila feel a lot more cornered.
I have to watch Spaska like a hawk whenever I suspect the grown ups want to go, but that's very exhausting. I was able to prevent her from going after Kala twice today, but yeah it's not something I can physically manage to do for much longer.
Mila keeps holding it in until the very last minute, before this she'd pee 2-3 times a day.
She peed and pooped on her own at around 3:40AM last night, Spaska was confined to my computer room, but now I absolutely must go to bed and Mila it's 12:36AM so around 12:30 I had to put Mila in the litterbox myself, sure enough she instantly peed.
Normally she'd go at around 2:30-4AM, then some 5-8 hours later again and so on. Now she holds it in 24+ hours.

Sorry about the negativity
I did not see THIS coming
the internet doesn't even have info on a problem like this
nothing turns up on google for me.

Just when you think the problems are over something new presents itself, I've never experienced so many problems in such quick succession with pets before, it's definitely worrysome when the cats are holding their pee and poop in because of the new kitten and they were all fine before this week.

I don't think they can work this out among themselves because as soon as Spaska approaches/starts sniffing Mila as she pees or poops, Mila just leaves.

sorry about the long post.
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Re: Found a month old stray kitten and brought it home, now what?

Post by Joe_Danger »

BTW I forgot to post these last night, Spaska is stunning :) Almost looks like a Russian Blue mix.
I know she is not but she almost looks like one,
When we're not dealing with the litterbox stalking thing, all 4 are as happy as clams together and all is wondeful
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- She also learned to not use her claws when playing, is very gentle with me now, unless she gets the zoomies and totally loses her mind but that's ok.
- Responds to her name and comes running like a lil puppy.
- Loves the grown up's bushy fluffy tails and they don't mind letting her play with them
- Both Mila and Kala have no issues turning their backs to her, which is the best because it means they trust her
- Casper gets the most playtime with her, they seem to have bonded well
- Mila well, she swipes at her but doesn't hiss, which soon seems to turn into a playful swiping back and forth but doesn't seem to be out of anger
- Kala has a way of keeping Spaska at a distance when she wants to by just looking at her
- Mila tries to groom her sometimes but Spaska's response to anyone touching her is to extend her front paw and tries to touch/play with them so that is something Mila isn't a fan of and pulls back, I'm slowly teaching Spaska not to do this and we've come to a point where she keeps her claws retracted when doing this now 90% of the time.
Positive reinforcement and if she goes overbored I say no and leave her alone, it's also what Mila does when she gets fed up with Spaska without hissing or yelling at her. Sometimes if she is too hyper and won't listen to my no I make a loud noise and say no at the same time which distracts her and teaches her to let go on the no command.

If we could just break Spaska's habit of litter box annoying, all 4 would be perfect together as they are.

Tonight I didn't confine her to my computer room because I put Mila to get her business done at 12:30, so Spaska slept with me through the night, it was wonderful, Casper went and peed around 4AM, he doesn't care, Spaska wanted to get up but was too lazy to :)
We're both confined in my compute room now since I'm on the PC anyway and I'd like to give Mila some space in the rest of the apartment.
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Re: Found a month old stray kitten and brought it home, now what?

Post by fjm »

Still early days. For now I would just get into the routine of taking Mila to the tray every couple of hours during the day and shutting Spaska out - that way Mila won't have to hold it for too long. Is there something Spaska loves even more than watching the big cats poo? A feather on a string, a cardboard box to hide in and pounce from, a special treat? Anything that you can produce at the critical moment so she runs to you and not after them?
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Re: Found a month old stray kitten and brought it home, now what?

Post by Joe_Danger »

I tried distracting her, it doesn't work

Her favorite toy is Casper's tail :) but she has many other toys she plays with
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They generally get along as long as she doesn't go overboard and starts attacking his neck or gets attached to his hind legs and starts biting him, but as long as she just plays with his tail he lets her do it no problem.
They play together with balls and run around

EDOT: If my aunt could take her in, it'd be perfect, she is next door, she always wanted a cat and loves my cats to pieces, but she developed a severe germohobic disorder, she is basically Monk now from her favorite show :) She is CONSIDERING it but it doesn't fit with her current over the top germophobic lifestyle :( Lke if she was the way she used to be, she would've taken her in a heartbeat.
We've kept all kinds of pets when we lived together at my grandparents. Even my cat Leo was there for a while when I was little.

It would've been as if Spaska was in another room since I boince back and forth between the two apartments all the time.
The original idea was to let the cats roam free between both places, but Corona happened and my aunt messed up :(
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Re: Found a month old stray kitten and brought it home, now what?

Post by Mollycat »

Something you said earlier rang a bell, that you can distract Spaska, but as soon as she hears a cat scraping in the tray she is gone again.

At first when I get a new wireless printer in the other room, Molly runs to investigate. She is fascinated with the noisy contraption chucking out warm paper for a while, a few weeks, then gradually she gets used to it as just a sound of the house and does no more than turn one ear towards it.

Just a thought.
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Re: Found a month old stray kitten and brought it home, now what?

Post by booktigger »

Just on Mollycat's comment - as it is the noise of them scraping that attracts her, could you use some kind of white noise app to stop her hearing it as much?
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Re: Found a month old stray kitten and brought it home, now what?

Post by Joe_Danger »

I could try but she is still going to hear it knowing her
It's not just the noise but as soon as she sees/hears a cat going to the litterbox she is there.
I'm going to try different things but why she started doing this now after being here for a month is beyond me.
She is also playing with Casper A LOT but gets rough sometimes and he meows and moves away...when she isn't clinging to his tail or leg :)
I hope he teaches her how to not be overly rough when playing, they are getting along for now.

Bottom line is, she is way too hyper for my slow, sleepy persians, we thought Mila was hyper when she was young but this, oh man this exceeds any and all cats I've ever owned :)
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Re: Found a month old stray kitten and brought it home, now what?

Post by Joe_Danger »

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How do you make the decision to rehome Spaska after this? Kala doesn't even do this with her brother Casper anymore

Come on Mila, just stop freaking out over nothing already :( Everyone gets along so well with Spaska
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Re: Found a month old stray kitten and brought it home, now what?

Post by Joe_Danger »

I've been on top of my game and making sure Spaska doesn't bother Mila in the litterbox even if it's costing me sleep, so Mila uses the litterbox without hesitation for now.
However, Spaska's habit just doesn't seem like it will ever be broken at this point which is very worrysome.
I do my best to keep Spaska distracted when the other cats are in the litter, however no matter what she fights to bolt over there, I don't want to keep her isolated in a room every time they go, I want her to not consider the noise as something she has to go and investigate, much like she never did before.

We've been dealing with this for over 10 days now
it's very exhausting and I see no end in sight, but at least Mila isn't afraid to use the litterbox unless Spaska slips from me again and scares her.

I have no idea what to do
there's only so much you can do by reading internet articles and forum posts. All I can do is hope this changes at some point (I somehow doubt it will) and we can go back to some semblance of normal.

I was ready for all kinds of problems, but this, I did not expect.
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Re: Found a month old stray kitten and brought it home, now what?

Post by fjm »

Ten days may seem like forever, but it can take weeks to change a habit, plus Spaska is still very much learning about the world. I would reckon on at least a month before she loses interest. With everything else going so well, including how the older cats have accepted her, I am sure you can sort this out too, with time.
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Re: Found a month old stray kitten and brought it home, now what?

Post by Ruth B »

Your first post in this thread was June 20th and you thought Spaska was about a month old, that was only a little over 5 weeks ago, that means she is only about 9 weeks old now. Over here it is now the norm to wait until kittens are at least 12 weeks old, as they are still learning from their mother and siblings how to behave. I think that is what Spaska is doing, watching your other cats so she can learn from them the way she would with her mother if she was still with her. It is just a shame that the other cats aren't quite as willing to teach as her mother might have been.

After all you have been through it probably feels a lot longer than it has actually been (it is one thing these threads are good for, they put a perspective on time that sometimes can escape us). I hope you can manage to get through it and i'm sure she will eventually settle down and not try and watch everytime someone uses the litter tray, but i can imagine it being rather stressfrul for you trying to constantly keep an eye on her.
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Re: Found a month old stray kitten and brought it home, now what?

Post by Joe_Danger »

Thanks for understanding!
I'm so grateful there are people who understand me :)
Good thing there are no conflicts between her and the other cats, Mila does get annoyed with her but who wouldn't if someone was jumping on your face all the time, Casper takes it in stride tho and only gets away....sloooowly if she starts biting :)
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Re: Found a month old stray kitten and brought it home, now what?

Post by Joe_Danger »

Spaska is now officially two months old.
The vet estimated she was born on/around June the 1st because when we found her on the 20th she was 3 weeks old or just shy of 3 weeks.

There's Spaska last night grooming Casper after napping beside him for a bit, then she started playing with his face and he just took it all in strides. He tolerates her a lot, has never once hissed at her and they generally love each other very much...for now
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Right now both Spaska and Kala are on my computer desk next to one another.
So for now, we have zero issues with Spaska, Casper and Kala
they get along great, play together, everything, like they've always been together.

Mila's bathroom schedule is out of whack again, but I sense no stress in her, plus I've been keeping Spaska away and she hasn't bothered her in the bathroom in days thanks to that. Yesterday morning Mila even went and peed while Spaska was eating so I held onto the kitten for just in case...she did try to go to her, let's not kid ourselves :)

This morning I played with Mila and Spaska with some stringers, both close to one another, touching one another with their bodies no issues there.

I'm thinking maybe Mila poops once in 2 days now because she stuffs her face full of both Persian food AND Spaska's kitten food?
Tho that doesn't explain why she went from peeing 3 times a day to peeing once every 24 hours again, but I couldmake myself feel better and say that maybe it's because the weather has been 40-42C every day outside? Why that would affect her with the AC keeping the home cool is beyond me, but maybe it does.

Overall, the bond Kala, Spaska and Casper share, FOR NOW :) is perfect
Mila tends to discipline her more when Spaska goes too hyper on her and gets away from her but I've never seen Mila use her claws open when swiping at Spaska, she generally seems to just push her or hit her so Spaska gets the message....she doesn't

Here's hoping whatever is going on with Mila isn't going to result in inappropriate elimination
She really does not look stressed to me, she eats and drinks water normally, asks for sour cream which both she and Spaska adore normally, so I see no change in Mila's behavior whatsoever.
She even sleeps on my Commodore 64 and consoles which are right smack in the middle of the living room as Spaska is zooming around the room playing with whatever.

Spaska actually sleeps sometimes during the day too, took this pic yesterday
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Re: Found a month old stray kitten and brought it home, now what?

Post by Ruth B »

I do wonder if Milla, while she may not like being watched while using the litter tray, understands that Spaska is just a kitten so isn't that stressed about it. It is surprising how tolerant cats can be to kittens, and while she may not like it, she knows that Spaska isn't really threatening her when she watches her using the tray, its not like having an adult cat watching you while you are at your most vulnerable, quite literally 'with your pants down', and fearing an attack.

I really think things are going well particularly if Spaska is only 8 weeks old, that is even younger than I thought. A good hug to Milla (if she likes them) and i'm sure she will be fine with Spaska in the future.
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Re: Found a month old stray kitten and brought it home, now what?

Post by Joe_Danger »

Thanks
like take Mila for example right now, she is sleeping on the coffee table in the living room, half asleep, half awake
Spaska walked all over her like 4 times, Mila didn't bet an eye, Spaska just literally walked over her back and forth several times.
If Mila hated Spaska or was afraid of her she would've bolted, hissed and freaked out.

Hope we figure out what is going on with Mila, because she seems perfectly healthy

And yeah I believe, from what I've read, cats who have raised kittens as Mila did and cats who have been around kittens before as adults tend to tolerate kittens more.
Casper and Kala haven't really seen other kittens than themselves, but Casper is just too good natured and Kala, when she was a baby would groom and take care of her brothers much like Mila did, so maybe that has something to do with it.

Still why Mila's bathroom schedule is out of whack is beyond me
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Re: Found a month old stray kitten and brought it home, now what?

Post by fjm »

Did Mila’s routine go back to normal after her infection? I wonder if there could still be some residual effects from that.

If Spaska is only 8 weeks she still has a few months of kitten licence to learn all she needs to know - I think all will be well, even with the tray issues.
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Re: Found a month old stray kitten and brought it home, now what?

Post by Joe_Danger »

Yeah, her routine quickly went back to normal even during the last days of the infection and there were no issues until some 12 days ago? 14 maybe now I lost count.
It all started when that one day Spaska made Mila leave the litterbox 3 times in a row, after that Mila started holding it in.

A few days after that, by keeping Spaska at bay as much as I could Mila's routine went back to normal, I posted about it I think don't remember.
And a few days ago it messed up again, big time.
She now passes stools every 42 hours pretty much and goes to pee only once every 24 hours. She doesn't seem to be in distress and when she does decide to use the litterbox it all goes by very smoothly and quickly.
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Re: Found a month old stray kitten and brought it home, now what?

Post by Joe_Danger »

Guys, I am not doing well at all
I consulted with my vet hoping he'd give me some positive feedback on the situation with Mila

The vet specifically said Spaska needs to be re-homed, if only temporarily because he believes Mila holds her pee and poop in because of what Spaska did to her around the litterbox.
The vet said Mila could end up damaging her kidneys and what not if she keeps doing this. I asked for calming pheromones or micro chip operated litterboxes and he said no such things exist here, by the time I order something like that it would have been too late.

He suggested we re-home Spaska for 3-4 days to see if Mila goes back to her normal schedule, but after that they'd probably forget her, right? That'd be bad.
Either way he said I have no other options, he's been to my place before he knows isolating them for long periods of time is pretty much impossible.

EDIT: I explained to my vet that Mila doesn't seem stressed around the kitten at all, but he says she can be holding it in regardless.
He wasn't too concerned about her holding her poop in, he too said it could be due to overeating, but when I told him she only goes to pee once every 24 hours he got very worried saying her kidneys are at risk if she holds her pee in for too long like that.
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Re: Found a month old stray kitten and brought it home, now what?

Post by Mollycat »

We're talking about giving up on a lifetime for the sake of what is most likely a temporary problem. I don't like the idea of a vet being so prescriptive and dictatorial without seeing the issue for himself or offering any kind of alternative ideas.

Yes he's right if she keeps holding it and holding it then health problems can develop, but if you are home and can go with her to her litter box say 5 times a day and close the door so there is no Spaska in the room and she does her business, I can't see a problem. Cats don't or shouldn't need to pee every hour, even when I had two cats both peeing a lot because of kidney and thyroid problems, there were between 5 and 10 clumps in 24 hours, that's 3 to 5 each at the most. If you give her the space alone every 3 hours through the day and can keep doing that for a while, Mila should get the idea, Spaska should get bored of trying, and everything should be just fine. And if it isn't then maybe you can reconsider, but I wouldn't give up just yet.
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Re: Found a month old stray kitten and brought it home, now what?

Post by Joe_Danger »

Mila has been getting alone time for well over 3 hours a night
but she just sleeps through it or eats and doesn't even bother going, I explained this to my vet but he insists that even if she doesn't seem stressed around the kitten she is holding it in.
I've been getting to Spaska before she could bother Mila in the bathroom for the most part, this morning when Mila went to pee Spaska was curled up against the litter tray but Mila didn't mind, I picked Spaska up, took her away for Mila to finish and that was it.

Whenever Spaska isn't roaming free and is confined to my computer room, when that is possible, Mila just does what she does when Spaska is around, sleeps, drinks water or eats lol. I explained this to my vet but he insists she is still holding it in due to stress from when Spaska cut her off 3 times that day, which does seem plausible.

I had a great weekend, all 4 cats get along perfectly and I figured I'd just ask my vet if Mila pooping every 48 hours or so could be due to her overeating, he said yes, but when I brought up the fact that she went form peeing 2-3 times a day to once every 24 hours is when he got worried and said a 7.5 year old can should not be doing that.
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Re: Found a month old stray kitten and brought it home, now what?

Post by Mollycat »

I'm no expert on cats holding it in but you know Mila best and if you feel she is happy, healthy and not stressed and obviously she is getting more comfortable even with an intruding curious kitten, I don't see the need to rehome anyone in a panic because the vet has taken one thing as a red flag. Yes it's a situation to be monitored but you are, and you're reporting progress regularly, you're finding ways to deal with setbacks and you are sensitive to Mila's health and well-being. Have faith in yourself and your cats. Stop panicking, anxiety is something your cats will pick up on and can cause more problems that it solves. If Mila was that distressed she would be showing it in more ways than holding it in.
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Re: Found a month old stray kitten and brought it home, now what?

Post by Joe_Danger »

I just put a new litterbox in my computer room, there's barely room to move in there let alone for a litterbox and guess what happened.
Mila immediately went and pooped in it, so could she really have been holding it in? Once the kitten spooks her in there too tho it's going to be game over again

EDIT: talked to several people about temporary re-homing, they're all booked with cats
But they all agreed that finding a better home for Spaska than mine would be extremely difficult.
Even my vet said as much, he and his mom, both vets struggle to properly home kittens every time because as he says most people do not provide proper care or want to learn.

I talked to a friend who knows A TON about cats and she openly said she has no idea who we could trust with Spaska.

My friend Danny who re-homes and takes care of stray kittens with a bunch of his neighbors has also had major problems finding good homes for kittens, he literally says they're safer there near that church where they're usually taking care of them than in random people's homes who more often than not discard them, mistreat them or refuse to put screens on their windows and the cats fall to their deaths since most of us here live in apartment buildings.

I'm not saying there are no wonderful people who take proper care of cats here, I know a few myself, but we all struggle to find other people like us.

So yeah, I have no idea where we're going with this, I had a wonderful happy weekend and monday but my vet genuinely scared me today, he was very worried, my vets love my cats like their own because the mom Mila mated with their tom back then, they're good people :)
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Re: Found a month old stray kitten and brought it home, now what?

Post by fjm »

I think your vet is being hypercautious. Is it ideal that Mila is not peeing more frequently? No, but as Molly says you are already finding ways to manage the situation, and nor would it be ideal to rehome Spaska. Even a short stay somewhere that scared or upset her could be a major set back at her impressionable age. Mila, on the other hand, is showing no fear of using the tray when Spaska is not around. I would set a reminder on my computer to take Mila for a private tray visit every two hours (it’s good for you to get up and move around, too!), make sure she has undisturbed access for a few hours every night, and accept it as the new normal for now.
Joe_Danger
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Re: Found a month old stray kitten and brought it home, now what?

Post by Joe_Danger »

This is where the litterbox for Mila ended up. The original idea was to put the litterbox where the plastic tub/container with the purple lid is, but the floor is uneven there due to some tiles and it wobbles way too much
IMG_3697LR.jpg
The most difficult thing when talking to people online is explaining that you just don't have room for something, they always say stuff like "well move the shelf" do this, do that, but it's not that simpe. Even if I were to move that shelf, which physically we're not capable of nor can it be removed from the room so easily without it being disassembled first, Spaska could still get to the litterbox in a jiffy.

I don't have a problem with it being here, Mila doesn't, she knows this litterbox well, she grew up in it
but Spaska can easily get to it whenever
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Kay
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Re: Found a month old stray kitten and brought it home, now what?

Post by Kay »

probably not helpful to you, Joe, but my 13 year old Penny pees around every 20 hours, and poops around every 36 hours, and as an only cat she has nothing to spook her
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