How to Handle Peeing Outside of Box?

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ChonairJazz
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How to Handle Peeing Outside of Box?

Post by ChonairJazz »

Hi!

We brought our cat inside-only, a few months ago, (I posted about it here in January). He was a bit angsty for a few months about it, but then did seem to eventually settle down. He was good as gold for a few months and then somehow managed to escape whilst I was away with my parents (my partner was home but isn't sure how he got out). He came back after a few days, thin and with fleas and played up for a week or so after that but then settled down and was fine again. He got out again (!) for about half an hour after I accidentally left a window open, I caught him and brought him back in and he played up again for a few days. He was settling down fine AGAIN, but then a few weeks ago started peeing outside his box. It was seemingly at random at first so we thought it might be just because he was readjusting again (he'd done it a couple of times after both his escapes but then stopped), so gave him some time, but it's now getting worse. Almost every day we have a "little accident" now and sometimes twice a day.

He doesn't do it all the time, it seems to be mostly first thing in the morning when we get up, and then again when I get back from work. He'll come running down from upstairs to greet me, and then if I don't pick him up and take him to his box in time he'll just squat and pee (or pee when you pick him up). Most of the time in between he's good as gold. I joked with my partner that it's like he's so excited to see me that he forgets he needs to go! When he starts going, we'll hiss at him and he'll usually stop, run up to his box and go in it.

Yesterday and the day before he was fine, no accidents, so we thought he was calming down but then today he did it in the lounge before I'd even got up. My partner got angry and shouted at him and chased him upstairs (he didn't mean to, he just got annoyed about it). I felt bad so went and gave him a fuss. We're a bit confused as to why he's doing it. He doesn't do it all the time, he poos in his box no trouble at all, and during the day or if we're out of the house he will pee in it just fine (apart from the odd accident where he's at the wrong angle in the box and pees out of the door by mistake!). This makes me think that he's doing it "for me" for some reason, because if I'm not about he's no trouble.

Some questions or things that might be relevant:
1. Other than his escape three weeks ago, and defleaing and deworming him recently, nothing else has changed in his own routine lately. This started about two weeks ago and has become a real problem over the last week or so.
2. It's a hooded tray. I've tried taking the lid off but partner really doesn't like the tray not having a lid. We tried taking the door flap off and leaving the entrance open but that's not worked, so hubby closed it again. Kitty has used it up until now with no trouble. The tray is in the bathroom, that's the only place we can really put it.
3. My hours have increased at work, I'm now working full time, and longer days than before, and partner has recently started a job a couple of days a week (he was unemployed before). Kitty has always been a bit of a mummy's boy so we wondered if he was suffering from a bit of anxiety/separation anxiety? He's gotten a lot more cuddly with me recently, when I'm pottering about in the kitchen he constantly wants picking up, and cuddling and every time I sit down he wants on my lap. I try to spend as much time with him as possible. He's not massively playful though, although I have had a bit of luck with catnip and feeding toys.
4. We scoop the tray every day, usually multiple times a day (when home we try and scoop after every time he uses it). However I have forgotten to do it a few times before going to bed, and it can sometimes be worse when this happens, although it does still happen when we do keep it more pristine.
5. We twice tried another litter. Both times it made it worse. We currently use Cat's Best, because I can't get on with litter that doesn't clump and the cat has always preferred this one over anything else we have tried.
6. We have recently replaced both the Feliway and Pet Remedy plugins recently after they ran out. He's also on YuCalm and seems worse on days after I've forgotten to give it to him but again, that might just be coincidence.
7. I wonder if he might maybe be unwell. We have been keeping an eye on him for signs of arthritis, I'm wondering if maybe he's having difficulty/soreness getting into the tray, or if he maybe had something else wrong. My partner thinks he's just doing it for attention as he doesn't seem ill otherwise, but we're keeping an eye and will take him to the vet if it doesn't improve.
8. Kitty is not neutered. We will get him done eventually but can't at the moment.
9. I do have a habit of going and fussing him after my partner has told him off for something, because I'm worried that if it is anxiety that this might make it worse, but at the same time my partner said that if it is just attention seeking, I'm probably making it worse by doing this, which I expect is true. I don't want to reward his bad behaviour by fussing him after he misbehaves but if it is anxiety I'm worried that he needs reassurance.
10. We have recently started spot-on flea treatment again after a couple of months of the old one not working, and it's a new one (Frontline wasn't working, so this is Advantage, which does seem to have got rid of all the fleas on the cat).

Any advice on where to start? If it doesn't improve in we'll take him to the vet and get them to check him over in case it's health related. What would you advise on how to break this habit without stressing him out if it's anxiety, or encouraging it if it IS just attention seeking or laziness?
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Mollycat
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Re: How to Handle Peeing Outside of Box?

Post by Mollycat »

This is clearly a very unhappy cat, and I'm sorry but plug-in pheremones are not a solution.

Why does this cat have to be an indoor only cat?

Shouting and even hissing are only making it worse, that must stop immediately. Imagine, you do something you know you shouldn't and that you hate doing but you do it because you're in terrible distress, and then you get punished and yelled at for doing it - please stop. Stop telling him off altogether, telling off means nothing to a cat and all your partner is doing is creating confrontation and stress. Work with a cat to find solutions, you can't solve problems by force. Especially for entire males, spraying is an important behaviour. Why can't you get him done yet, if you plan to in the future?

Reality check - nowhere else to put a litter tray? Do you find room for furniture and ornaments you want? Then you have room for something essential to your cat's well being. Does he have a cat tree? Scratch posts? Windows to watch the world go by? Does he have a secured outdoor space, or have you tried harness training him, if it's really not possible to let him go out? My ex's aunt had an in/out cat who was always in fights. After he tested positive for FeLV he was to be confined indoors, it made him so utterly miserable in the end they decided it was kinder to have him put to sleep, because they couldn't have him out infecting others and he was just too miserable confined. Have you discussed rehoming to somewhere he can go out, or securing an outside area for him, or other options?
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Re: How to Handle Peeing Outside of Box?

Post by Joe_Danger »

I believe him not being neutered is the main reason behind his unhappiness and all that is going on.
I understand if you don't have enough room for more litterboxes, but I think one more should be possible, your husband shouldn't be so sensitive to nonsense like whether or not the box is hooded or not, it's not up to HIM to decide what the cats need or want, especially when it comes to sensitive issues such as litterboxes.

If possible having him be an indoor-outdoor cat might be the best solution for him, have him vaccinated, have him sorted out and let him roam, sure he is going to be at more of a risk but realistically, he doesn't seem like the type of cat who'd be happy inside.
I think it's best to have your husband understand that when it comes to the type of litterbox you guys are using the cat is the only one who can make this decision for themselves and you have to do as they please.

I think you should get him fixed as soon as possible before the random peeing turns into a habit that's going to be pretty much impossible to break. Cats are creatures of habit and once they imprint something it's hard to change it.
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ChonairJazz
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Re: How to Handle Peeing Outside of Box?

Post by ChonairJazz »

Hi Mollycat,

Thanks for your reply, he was absolutely fine for months until recently, he was seemingly quite happy, (until he got out) and that's what we're confused about, we're trying to work out what has changed otherwise. We brought him indoors because the road we live on has become increasingly busy and in the last year a handful of cats who live around here have been hit and killed. It was quiet when we moved here, he's also an old boy and isn't very agile anymore, and he has no road sense. There are also a few cats owned by neighbours who can be aggressive towards each other too.

"Stop telling him off altogether, telling off means nothing to a cat and all your partner is doing is creating confrontation and stress."
Yes, I told my partner this, that he shouldn't raise his voice, as that'll make it worse, instead should just let him get on with it, annoying as it is, and then I'll just clean it up, until we get to the source of the problem, whether that is health, stress or litter-related. If we absolutely have to let him out again we will, but obviously really want to avoid that unless we have persued all other avenues first. Partner says he'll try not to get annoyed at him again. He doesn't usually shout at him, it's only been this once, and when I say "hiss" I'm not talking a loud hiss, we make a quick "tsss" or "tut tut tut" noise at him as a deterent and then he goes up to his tray or we pick him up and take him to it, put him in it and give him a fuss. I took the hood off again this morning, and showed him, and he has used it again of his own accord, so I've left the lid off since to see if that helps him feel more comfortable with it. I try and make a big fuss of him when he does use the tray, so that he has good associations with it. We're just not sure at the moment why he stopped using it. If he doesn't improve in the next few days, or shows any signs of illness we'll obviously get him checked up. We only really tell him off if he's doing something dangerous (like trying to walk on the surfaces when I'm cooking, or on the hob), usually this consists of a "tsss" noise, a firm "no" or "get down" or just picking him up and just moving him somewhere else. I usually then give him a fuss when he does get down or stop what he's doing.

Getting him done is on the cards, but we haven't been able to because of Covid, the vets have been backed up around here, and we are dependent on my dad in law to take him, but he's vulnerable and has been isolating. I could walk over there with him in a carrier, but I think that would stress him out as it is a 20 minute walk on busy roads.

Kitty has a scratch mat, which he loves (we did give him a post but he didn't use it, he seems to prefer a horizontal surface to scratch). I try and encourage him to play with toys, he likes catnip and we have a treat spinner we put his biscuits in, which he seems to really enjoy. I also get him doing little tricks in exchange for treats and have a cardboard box we made holes in and we play "whack a mouse" with a catnip toy, he gets a treat each time he catches it. We're in the process of looking for a nice cat tree for him (we don't want one that's too high as he has a habit of falling asleep on surfaces and falling off) but we cleared some space on the top of some of our furniture and the upstairs windowsills for the time being, so he has somewhere to perch and watch. He particularly likes the back of the sofa and the top of the tumble drier.

We did try harness training him so we could take him in the garden supervised, but I think we took him out on it too soon, as he did seem a little freaked out about it, so we stopped for now. We can't convert the whole garden but I was looking around online to see if we could create a little "catio" or small fenced off area he could use when we are home.
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Re: How to Handle Peeing Outside of Box?

Post by Kay »

I'm with Joe - asking an entire tom cat to live happily indoors is a recipe for disaster, and I'm surprised peeing outside his litter box is your only problem

I'm sure you care for him, and want to do your best for him, but your posts do rather give the impression the object is to get Kitty to conform to what you and your husband want, rather than what he wants - the bottom line is that an unneutered tom is very unlikely to be happy living under your house rules

I would suggest as a start you get him neutered asap and see if that makes a difference
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ChonairJazz
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Re: How to Handle Peeing Outside of Box?

Post by ChonairJazz »

Hi JoeDanger! Thanks for your response. Yes, we will get him done eventually, it's just not been possible recently due to Covid. Vets around us were only accepting animals for urgent issues, and we're dependent on my dad in law to get him there as we can't drive, but he's isolating and is not vaccinated. If it was absolutely urgent, I'd of course pop him in a basket (the cat, not my DIL!) and walk over there with him myself, but wanted to avoid that, because it's busy roads all the way and I know it would freak him out.

It's just confusing us that this toileting issue only seems to be when we get up and when I get home from work. The rest of the time he's seemingly fine, and up until recently (once he settled down) we've had no issues at all with his box. Cats are strange animals.

Yeah, I'm working on my partner, I've said that sometimes cats just don't like enclosed boxes, and surely his safety is worth having an open box if that is what the issue turns out to be?! It doesn't hurt to try it without the lid! We can always try several different locations too and see if there is any particular spot that works better for him. There is a little corner, which is open but out of the way we could maybe try which is not so visible. Might try putting it temporarily where he seems to be going, and then slowly moving it, I heard that can sometimes work. The bathroom is the quietest room in the house, apart from the dining room (and we didn't want it there for obvious reasons!). Once the spare room is deflea'd (again!) though I might be able to rearrange in there and see if I can find a quiet corner in there it can go.

We will of course let him out again if nothing else works and it's absolutely the only way, but just wanted to try exhausting other avenues first. Will take him for a vet check of course too if he doesn't improve, to rule out anything health related.
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Re: How to Handle Peeing Outside of Box?

Post by Joe_Danger »

I can understand what being unable to get somewhere due to being unable to drive is like because I'm legally blind myself, always wanted to be a trucker but had to accept that wasn't going to happen :)
Due to me being unable to see well I usually use taxi services to get around, they're fairly cheap here in Macedonia, so when I need to get my cats to the vet I call a cab, ask if it's ok to bring my cat/cats with me in carriers and they send me a driver who is ok with having pets in the car.
But I assume taxi/uber isn't an option where you live due to costs.

I'm very very wary of corona and have been isolating for a year, I'm only now starting to go out to stores and socializing IRL with friends after having had both my pfizer doses, so I fully understand where you're coming from when it comes to this as well.
However I suggest you get the cat fixed sooner rather than later because if things get worse with the Delta strain you might miss your chance again. I'm 37 (soon to be 38), fat and with high blood pressure so I'm at risk from corona too hence why I've been careful. Still when it comes to the cats I do my best to take them to the vet as soon as they need it.

A 20 minute walk in a carrier shouldn't stress a cat out
I've taken Mila, Kala and Casper for longer walks because and they've been fine, but they ARE persians so I can understand your concerns.

Either way, get that tom neutered, it's a must, the longer you wait the worse things are going to get.
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ChonairJazz
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Re: How to Handle Peeing Outside of Box?

Post by ChonairJazz »

Hi Joe Danger!
Sorry to hear that, it's frustrating isn't it. I have a learning difficulty which doesn't actually disqualify me from driving a car (I ride a motor scooter on a provisional licence) but it does mean that I'll need more lessons and extra time learning to pass the test and be able to drive confidently and safely, and I just can't afford it at the moment (partner lost his job just before Covid which doesn't help!).

I could get a taxi, if it's necessary for the cat's health that's worth the cost to me, as long as I can find a taxi driver who is willing to take him. I'd just assumed you couldn't take cats in taxis, but when I asked a driver the other day he said that while a lot won't, there are actually some locally who are ok with it provided they are in a carrier (I'd have thought a carrier was a given anyway?!). I've heard that some like you to put a blanket underneath too, but again, I get that, makes sense.

It's just been a naff year hasn't it. I fully respect that DIL is vulnerable, he trusts us, but unfortunately I work in customer service and we did get those people who would just argue with us because they didn't want to wear a face covering, who completely failed to respect social distancing, and would just quite happily breathe down your neck. :roll:

I've talked to partner and he now seems OK with leaving the hood off the tray to see if it helps, so that's a victory. He's also said he'll try not to get frustrated with him again. He's never snapped before, I think it was just a one off. No accidents today, we'll watch this space.
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Re: How to Handle Peeing Outside of Box?

Post by Joe_Danger »

Nah I don't find my condition frustrating in the least, it's always been like that so for me it's normal.
I can still draw, play video games, have a perfectly normal life, pretty much everything I need including my vet is within walking distance for me, the vet is 10-15 mins away and normally I just take a cat carrier or two and walk over to the vets, but if my eyes are tired and/or the sun is too bright I do take a taxi because the street I have to cross to get to the vets is pretty nasty and has no traffic lights or anything.
I generally don't even notice I'm legally blind, unless the text in one of my games is too small :)

What really matters is that our cats are healthy, well taken care of and that we do everything in our power to give them as comfortable a life as possible. Right now I'm dealing with a rather unforeseen problem of my kitten bothering the older cats in the litterbox and one of the cats, the mom is taking it particularly bad, so there are always all kinds of things to think about and worry about one way or another. In your case, from my experience and I have a ton of experience both of my own and with other people's cats, getting yours fixed is THE key to solving your issue, the longer you wait, the more your tom will get used to eliminating outside the box and the issue will be harder to fix even after getting him fixed.
So sort that out asap, getting a cat neutered/spayed isn't something you want to put off unless there are health reasons.
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Re: How to Handle Peeing Outside of Box?

Post by ChonairJazz »

Fair play, I get what you mean, I'm dyspraxic and to me it's completely normal, my parents just thought I was clumsy as a child, I developed "workarounds" as I grew so it wasn't until my teens when I got an assessment at university for dyslexia that we discovered it. I'm glad, because it means a lot of things now make sense! It can be frustrating in some ways though, my chosen field can be very driving dependent which can be a bit of a barrier.

Sorry to hear you're dealing with cat-on-cat warfare! I know that can be difficult. Is he trying to be playful or is it territorial? I hope that resolves itself soon. My parents have two young cats who are siblings (5 years old, we lost the mum sadly a month ago to pancreatitis) they both get on OK, as they are related, but did go through a phase where the bigger one started harassing the smaller one while she was eating so she was getting anxious, wolfing her food down and making herself sick. They had to separate their bowls for a while and feed them opposite sides of the kitchen! They are fine with each other now, and he found more constructive ways to get her to play. Their previous two cats (died 8 years ago) didn't like each other much. My parents were worried they'd have to rehome one of them but they did actually quickly grow to tolerate each other well and just gave each other plenty of space!

Thanks again for the advice!
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