Cat Chat Feline Forum

I am sorry for the constant negativity
We've tried everything written on the internet and everything from my experience with cats.
Spaska is going to be 3 months old on September the 1st and she gets along great with Casper and Kala. Even when she harasses them they set her straight and she backs down or they just don't mind.

But Spaska has been targetting Mila specifically, to a point where it has developed into a habit I am unable to break and I'm afraid that it might have lasting effects on both.
Mila has been mostly confined to my computer room, she stays here most of the time anyway but even tho the door is open and all, as soon as she leaves the room Spaska jumps all over her, she jumps on her face, she stalks her, pounces at her.

Mila has tried being friendly multiple times, she tries sniffing Spaska, Spaska responds with biting, she extends her claw in Mila's face or flat out jumps on her face frantically biting her, scratching her, it's scary.
We're at a point where Mila is starting to cry in desperation and it's the saddest thing. Mila has had a rough summer, we still don't know if she is going to survive or why her condition is the way it is and even tho it is improving, stress is the last thing she needs now.
That's all the room we have, we can't separate the cats more.

If this is just a phase it's a phase that keeps getting worse and worse to a point where Mila is afraid to go to the living room to get water or food because Spaska specifically targets her even with the other two cats around.
It is weighing heavily on me and I will admit I haven't had fun playing with Spaska in weeks, because when I play with her it's a chore so she doesn't harass poor Mila.
Still I spend at least 2-3 hours a day playing with her, it's FUN it's just I always have this bad feeling that I do it so she doesn't stress Mila out.

Spaska is well loved and is given so much attention from both human and cat family members, yet she still harasses Mila.
Hearing Mila cry tonight trying to just be left alone as Spaska claws and bites her....it was heartbreaking.

Spaska often chases after Mila, who runs terrified of her, then comes back with a bunch of fur in her mouth.
She bites her, she jumps on her face. This might be normal playful behavior for a kitten, but it's more than Mila can handla.
Mila has tried hissing at her, swiping at her, even giving Spaska a good beating to no avail, Spaska just keeps coming back more and more aggressively.

We are looking for a home for Spaska tbh but it isn't going well at all
We're at a complete loss, we thought we could do this, with so many cats but Spaska is exceptionally hyperactive which I CAN handle, but her aggression towards Mila is something more than I can handle at the moment.

I'd hate to see my beloved Spaska go
she is so loving and gentle when not crazy but never towards Mila

Sadly I don't think we can continue like this, there's no way I can see Spaska calming down and not harassing Mila anymore.
We'd wait and see one more month but here people don't like adopting kittens that old.
I'm terrified that Spaska might end up out on the street by some irresponsible owner, it's exceptionally hard to find a good cat owner here, especially one for a kitten as highly energetic as this one.

I'm sorry about my constant negativity
I'm trying to have a positive outlook on the situation, but Spaska has been nothing but stress for us ever since July 18th when she started bothering the cats in the litterboxes, the behavior still persists but Kala and Casper got used to it.

I'm at a loss
We don't have cat behaviorists here
I spent my entire monthly pay this month on vet bills, FIP/FIV/FeLV tests for Mila, all sorts of stuff...

guys I'm at my wits end here and emotionally exhausted
I've consulted with my mother about this, she brought Spaska home and she sees what I see too, we're very worried about Mila and we don't see Spaska stopping the harassment any time soon, if anything in the past week it has gotten much much worse to a point where Mila started crying for help like never before.

Sorry again
I've had my cats for years, Mila 7.5 years old
Casper and Kala 5.5 or so, I've never seen anything like this

I LOVE Spaska so much but we can't handle this

EDIT: I want to clarify
I'm not a negative person, this is just a very stressful situation for Mila. I'm not panicking for no reason
Spaka's harassment of Mila is causing great stress to Mila.

I don't want to give away my beloved Spaska.
Right now, as I type this, she came up to me, she groomed me and fell asleep, we're always together, god knows I adore the kitten and she loves us all.
But the situation with Mila is getting out of hand because Mila is starting to show signs of fear and stress more so than before and just when she started recovering from her numerous health problems this summer.

She accepted Spaska, but Spaska's behavior is getting out of hand towards Mila specifically.
Even toys don't work anymore, when she decides to target and attack Mila that's all she is focused on, it's sad seeing Mila like this.

If Spaska is as bad as you describe, chasing Mila away then coming back with a clump of fur in her mouth and getting worse, that does sound like it's going too far. Mila should really pin the kitten down and tell her off properly cat-style, but if she doesn't it's not something you can successfully do for her. If Spaska is finding this game so much more fun than anything else, and Mila isn't going to help you to help her, you can't separate them, then apart from giving Mila food and water in her room I am at a loss for anything else to suggest.

My biggest fear was being just where you are, when I took in Molly. I had to get her for Boo, he couldn't cope as an only cat, and we tried another cat first which didn't work out, but Molly had nowhere else to go and my flat is too small to separate cats too. Thank goodness it was fine, I was a little bit worried at first when she would chase him but they would always come back with him chasing her, and whenever she attacked and he cried she would let him be.

I can't understand why Mila is letting herself be bullied so much though.

Only time I've seen Mila pin anyone down was once when Casper peed in their food when he was 2 months or so
and when Medo did something dumb, that's.
With Spaska she slaps her, swipes at her and hisses at her, sometimes grabs her with both arms but that lasts a mere second and that's it.

My persians are very loving, calm, gentle cats, all three of them.
Kala managed to create some sort of hierarchy from the start through body language, some hissing and and Spaska knows not to push her too much.
Casper only hissed at Spaska one time the other week when he couldn't get away from her after a prologned period of her hanging onto his hind legs.
She does this thing where she bites their legs, hangs onto them with her jaw and doesn't let go even if they meow and try to shake her off. It's funny as heck to watch but I've been discouraging it from day one to no avail.
The clump of hair thing she also does to poor Casper who just slowly tries to get away, even if he meows in pain she does not let go.

Remember how Mila allowed us to check her teeth and everything? That's the way these cats are, they're docile, gentle, calm, they've never scratched or bitten and when they did bite as kittens, Mila did for a short while it was always gentle. Kala bites me when she wants wet food, but that's a routine she does not anything bad. I understand Spaska is a young kitten so her biting I can tolerate and it will go away in time, but her behavior towards Mila...man I wouldn't have had an issue with it until Mila genuinely started crying from it.
Mila even allowed her to sit by her litterbox when she does her business, but Spaska is taking everything too far, one time she jumped on Mila's head as she was peeing.

So yeah, we're dealing with a weird situation
I've had ads placed about potential re-homing for some time now but haven't found anything yet.
In my country because many refuse to get their cats fixed there's tons and tons of kittens being adopted out all the time, most end up out on the street or in bad homes, because of this people who understand cats like we do insist I keep Spaska and god knows I want to, but the situation with Mila keeps getting worse not better.

These are the conditions I'm asking for in potential adopters, is it too much?

- If you live in a building please have window screens and a screen door on your balcony. Cats are prone to falling out of windows and the balcony and if you're on a higher floor it won't end well. Every person I've ever warned to get this done and hasn't has had their cat fall eventually, some get hurt, some not, but some ended up not making it.

- You must know how to communicate with a cat. Beating, punishment and screaming at a cat doesn't help. (In my country many people resort to physical punishment of cats, I've argued time and again with many over this and they are stuck in their ways and say it works) You have to understand that cats think and perceive things differently from us humans and even dogs.

- I'd prefer it if Spaska was a single pet, especially a single cat in the household as to avoid repeating the same issues we're having with Mila now.

- The new owner must not have backwards views on spaying and neutering, because so many people in our country refuse to get their cats fixed we end up with so many unwanted kittens all the time who either find bad homes or end up living on the street producing even more kittens.

- I'd rather Spaska not be an outdoor cat or live in a place where she could get out and be exposed to dangers from cars, bad people, dogs. (We have stray dogs just as many as stray kittens here)

These are the conditions I want and yeah I don't think they click well with people

Very, very difficult situation, loving both cats as you do. While it would definitely be best for Mila to use maternal cat discipline on Spaska it is obviously not in her character to do so - I wonder if part of the problem is that Spaska missed out on so much of that due to being abandoned by her mother so young? I took on an adult cat (3 years old) who had been hand reared - frankly she was a pain. She was desperate for human attention, and would launch herself at anyone who even looked as if they might be sitting down, pushing her head under hands and sending mugs and glasses flying. It was constant, and way beyond the normal behaviour of even the most affectionate cat. In the end I came to the conclusion she had missed out on the way a mother cat weans her kittens, gradually withdrawing attention as she reduces the amount of milk they get, and I weaned Rosie off my lap in the same way - a few minutes attention, then down on the floor and a very gentle pin and scruff shake each time she bounced back up. It took a while, but she gradually became a relaxed, much happier cat.

Spaska is of course a different case - a happy, over exuberant kitten, but I wonder if treating it as a weaning issue may help. Every time she goes too far remove her, signalling Not Allowed with a gentle scruff shake, and giving her something fun and acceptable to play with. We have talked on another thread about Single Kitten Syndrome - there is a well known problem with singleton puppies, growing up as the solitary pup in a litter, where they don't learn to deal with frustration early on which can cause problems later. Knowledgable breeders mayl go so far as to repeatedly push a very young singleton off the teat with a soft toy each day to try to replicate the experience of feeding in a scrum of other puppies. Your other cats can go some way to teaching Spaska acceptable behaviour, but as they are so laid back it may need you to take on the lead role and set and "enforce" boundaries.

Yeah that's exactly what I'm doing with her, when she bothers Mila or when she goes too far with biting.
But by the time I pick her up she has already forgotten what she was doing and her attention is elsewhere

If Mila wasn't getting so stressed and if she wasn't Spaska's primary target for harassment this wouldn't have been a problem because I know as a single, abandoned kitten it would take a long time for her to learn some of this stuff and I was and am completely fine with that. But time isn't on Mila's side as the more stressed she gets the more a chance for her to develop stress related issues increases.
Someone told us there was some agency here you pay 100 euros to and they re-home kittens from Macedonia in the UK, but they don't work or aren't as active anymore not sure. So if it comes to adoption I'd rather have one of you folks take her I'd pay 100 euros than to adopt her here in Macedonia.

BTW I forgot to mention I think
we found Spaska's real mom

My mom knew the location where Spaska came from, the kid whom she was following said as much, but we didn't know which of the cats was her mom or which one had kittens, when my mom originally found Spaska she was going to return her to her litter but found nothing and the kitten smelled of dog.
Through some investigation and after seeing Spaska's mom, same facial structure, features and body type, she still has big breasts since the other kittens aren't even 3 months yet either, tho she didn't have her kittens with her at that time, we can confirm that yes that white cat IS most likely Spaska's mom

So yeah, that explains why Spaska was so attached to Casper from day one, he is big and white
her mom is also white
She was only 3 weeks old or less than 3 weeks and she'd follow Casper everywhere even then.

Spaska's mom is just one of many unfixed cats in my neighborhood. I've posted pics of them before, they're all well taken care of clean and healthy cats by random people, but they do live out on the street and in people's yards, it's just the way things are here.
People don't have the money to organize a mass spaying/neutering
My friend tried to in his neighborhood which has even more cats but only a few got fixed and the situation didn't improve, cats keep breeding there.

After a week of pretty much constant harassment and Mila stressing I woke up this morning and they were both pretty chill
Like back before July 18th
Then Spaska started harassing everyone and Mila finally did it, she pinned her down for a bit, they've slept together before, but there was some major drama going on for the past week or two to a point where Mila started showing obvious signs of stress

and now we have this and it has been going on for well over an hour You know how things go with these cats, as soon as one thing gets better something else pops up, this whole summer has been like this but at least we're making progress here.

Another thing on the re-homing
I spoke to people on a Macedonian facebook group, I honestly wouldn't want to rehome Spaska here, I jsut can't trust anyone, but a lady who fully understands where I'm coming from confirmed that that company/agency that adopts kittens and cats out from Macedonia to the UK or Germany is still active and still around.
So that means I can keep working on Spaska and Mila's relationship, not stress too much and if worse comes to worse we'll make arrangements with that company for Spaska to be adopted out to the UK or Germany and be given to some responsible owners.

The woman openly told me the same thing my vet and a few others have said many times, it's very rare for a cat owner to be as serious about this stuff here.
So yeah now that I know the company is still active and helping people and cats, I'm good and don't have to worry about finding Spaska a good home locally IF it comes to re-homing.

I mean we have zero issues with the poor thing, Mila is the only one in the family who is being harassed and it was starting to take a toll on her. Hopefully them sleeping together again means they'll mend their relationship, tho I will try not to speak to soon.

Also Mila has been moving about the house freely today unlike the past few days where she was in constant fear of being attacked
Dunno where we're going but if this means Spaska won't have to leave I'd be happy, but it's way way too early to rejoice, so let's just take it one step at a time.
Guess I had to make this topic for things to make some headway lol
the level of harassment was really sad

Sounds like Mila has finally been pushed too far and is standing up for herself - good for her! I'm glad you have a backup plan just in case, though.

I'm still following this and wishing you all the best with Spaska and Milla, and hoping this is the start of Milla telling Spaska what is what and enough is enough.

Unfortunately when it comes to kittens there is very little advise i can give, i've always adopted adult cats, my kitten experience is from when i was a child so not really relevant.

I guess all I'm really wanting to say is that I'm still hoping things work out for you after the Summer you have been through.

Thanks Ruth
Spaska is officially 3 months old today!


I'm relieved now that I know there's a way to adopt Spaska out to good owners abroad and I hope if it does come to that we can work something out on this forum because that agency adopts out specifically to the UK or Germany. So I won't have to deal with Macedonians who even tho they mean well simply do not take proper or good care of cats and this is a fact. That's a huge load off my chest and I don't have to worry/stress over Spaska's future.

I think the main reason for Spaska targetting Mila more than the other cats is the same reason she attacks my mom more than me.
They both react the same way, they panic and move around quickly when she attacks and she thinks they're playing even tho they are not.
Casper and Kala on the other hand if attacked by Spaska get up VERY slowly and move away, even if she clings onto them they're very slow about it, Kala hisses at her and she lets go, Casper has a harder time with it but she lets go eventually too.

Mila on the other hand panics, runs, Spaska chases after her, Mila starts flailing her front paws around, Spaska plays with them even if Mila is growling and hissing. So naturally whenever Mila walks by or shows her head Spaska runs up to her because I assume in Spaska's mind Mila is always eager to play....even tho she is not.

Of course Spaska hasn't stopped bothering the adult cats in the litterbox either, no matter how hard I try to break the habit she always goes and watches, sometimes at least she watches from afar nowadays which IS an improvement but as soon as a cat starts burying and digging she runs up to them because she thinks they're playing. I got Mila on some sort of schedule so she goes when I'm around and can separate the kitten but that's about it.

I will say this
for the most part, internet articles on how to deal with highly energetic and somewhat problematic kittens have been utterly useless, you have to figure things out as you go and fully dedicate yourself to the cats and situation. I don't think most people would have been able to deal with my situation or they would've just ignored it and let the cats work it out themselves which could have led to some unwanted behaviors.
But even if you do try to influence cat behavior it isn't working regardless of what articles say, they make it sound easy for the clicks and clout. There is some improvement of course, but it's not as simple as the internet makes you think it is.

Mila pinning Spaska down brought over more improvement than me trying to distract her and what not, at least for the time being but Spaska still targets Mila a lot more than the other cats due to the way she reacts to it.