Spaska got spayed today at 6.5 months, hope it goes well

[Joe_Danger]

I've had 3 female cats spayed prior to Spaska, we almost lost Mila to a bacterial infection but the other two, Anastasia and Kala had zero issues.
With Spaska now it's like I've never ever done this before, it's completely different.
She went into surgery at 11AM, it was a painless quick surgery and she was back home in 2 hours total. Of course Spaska being Spaska she immediately started trying to get out of the carrier as soon as she got home, at first we weren't going to let her out but she went crazy in there so she started wobbling around the house, far more stable on her feet compared to the other girls.

So she wanted to climb on a bed, started walking on two legs around the bed, she wouldn't take no for an answer, so I had to help her up before she causes damage to herself, spent some 15mins there, wanted down, I gently helped her down and she has been on the floor since 9:26PM mostly sleeping.

The thing is, unlike the other girls I've had spayed and unlike Casper
when she moves around she meows as if she is in pain and this is concerning, never had THAT happen before
Her wound/inspection seems fine for now, tho since vets here don't seem to issue cones for cats she is bound to start trying to pull the threads sooner or later.

Hope when she recoves, if all goes well, we can somehow keep her level of activity down because Spaska is a cat who spends 6 hours a day roughousing, 3 hours in the morning of nothing but jumping and running around and 3 in the afternoon/night

Vet said not to feed her solid food for the first day just water with electrolytes and liquids, she won't eat on her own but takes the electrolyte water from a syringe.

[Mollycat]

Is it a flank incision or midline on her belly?

Back in the day (last time I had a cat spayed was the late 1980s) we didn't get cones or crates, just keep them indoors for 24 hours and as I learned the hard way let them decide when they want to go to their food (don't bring it to them because there's a good chance the smell will trigger hunger before the stomach is ready and it will all come back up - and that activity is not good for stitches!)

I don't know how much of the modern long list of care instructions indicates past neglect and how much is just over the top mollycoddling, but there is a world of difference in just a few decades. Also, we used to have flank spay and only prized show cats got the more complicated midline surgery so as not to spoil the coat with a scar, but it seems midline has become standard now and I'm pretty sure we never had so many problems as we hear of now. Maybe we just hear about them more. But I do know we didn't panic and if the cat felt able to jump up onto a bed, their skin is loose enough that if the stitches were done right there was no real risk of them tearing.

On another note it doesn't sound like poor Spaska is ready to calm down just yet! Sending our best wishes.

[fjm]

My papillon, Sophy, was spayed a week ago. It is much easier to keep a 13 year old dog from overdoing things than a 6 month old kitten, but I feel for you. Even Sophy could not understand why she should not run up and down stairs or jump up on the sofa when she felt perfectly OK. In the end I think you just do the best you can and keep a close eye on the incision - wild running and jumping may tear the stitches, but so might fighting to get out of a crate. Sophy's incision was glued, and the outer layers have healed so quickly and neatly that it is already hard to see. I know the inner layers take longer, but as Molly says cats are designed to be stretchy and flexible.

[Joe_Danger]

Thanks

And this morning we have a normal behaving Spaska
she ate a whole bunch of dry food
and is climbing furniture and the coffee table in the living room without issues which is NOT ok because she needs to be careful
but good luck telling her that

She was generally fine all day yesterday just sleeping but at one point her ears got cold and she seemed to have had a bit of hyperthermia last night even tho she was kept warm, so we added an extra layer of clothing on top of her which she surprisingly did not get out of for once so that warmed her up nice and good.

And then around 5AM she had a bit of dry food and this morning she seems mostly back to normal

This cat man, she is so so so hyper I've never seen anything like it
I legit get exhausted with her at times like she requires 3 hours of active play time in the morning and at night and if she doesn't get it boy oh boy



That's her a day or two before the surgery
all tired out and taking a nap

one of my favorite pics of her, tho this one is a tad older, maybe a month or two now

[Mollycat]

Normal-normal, or Spaska-normal?

Beautiful girl I love her tummy! I love that she is flat-grey but really she is a Tortoiseshell but you can only see it on her tummy and one foot! Does she let you touch her tummy? Molly won't let me touch with my hand but I can put my face in her belly and kiss it. I must have been mad to ever try but there it is.

[Joe_Danger]

So far it's normal-normal
if it starts being Spaska Normal I dunno what we're going to do lol

She lets me pet her tummy no problem when she feels like it, but in general she is a biter even tho I've taught her not to bite, she is much better about it now, so if she doesn't feel like being touched or has been overloaded with petting/just in general it's best not to touch her.

As for her tortie pattern, now you can see more of it even on her back

She went from being almost solid dark gray as a kitten to this now

[Mollycat]

Oh she is just too adorable. They don't call them Naughty Tortie for nothing. My Misha was a Naughty Tortie. We were invited to an educational talk by a cat behaviourist, when we consulted her about our cat's oddities that turned out to be Sarah-normal - and she said 8 out of 10 cats presenting with so-called behaviour problems are torties. There's no earthly genetic reason why that should be, but it is, and that's from a qualified practicing cat behaviourist and psychologist so just about official.

[Ruth B]

Its been far too long since I had a cat spayed to really comment, the last one was one of the families cats when i was in my mid teens, and she had no cone or anything, but we were told to keep her a bit quiet for a day or so afterwards. They didn't tell her though, she got out of the carrier and instantly jumped up on the sideboard, fortunately the stitches didn't tear although it did panic my parents a bit and prompt a call to the vets. I've also known a horse who had an injured tendon who had to be taken of the pain relief and allowed to hobble around a field, when he couldn't feel it hurting him he was wanting to run around as he normally did which was making the injury worse. while pain medication is a wonderful thing, sometimes the pain is there for a reason and when you can't tell an animal to be quiet and relaxed, you have to let them suffer a little in order for it to heal.

i do have a soft spot for Torties and their tortitude. I did once hear of Torti point Ragdolls and I still think that is one i would love to have, somehow i can't quite imagine a Ragdoll with tortitude.

[Joe_Danger]

Mila had tortitude right until she had her kittens, not sure if she counts as a tortie or diluted calico but she was so hyper for a persian, nothing like Spaska tho, we haven't seen anything like this.
I doubt she is ever going to settle down tbh

Kala on the other hand has been very calm all her life, a very smart but very calm cat.



There's a good pic of everyone's pattenrs/colors
I think Mila and Kala are diluted calicos but I'm not sure
tortoiseshell is more like all the colors/patterns just being totally random everywhere right?

Mila and Casper making sure Spaska is ok after the surgery

[Mollycat]

while pain medication is a wonderful thing, sometimes the pain is there for a reason and when you can't tell an animal to be quiet and relaxed, you have to let them suffer a little in order for it to heal.

Oh yes I know that one, we practically begged the vet to let us cut down the dog's meds as he happily jumped up onto the sofa with what was in effect a broken leg, 12 hours after the surgery during which time he had done nothing but sleep so deeply I couldn't even move him to get his travel harness off. Next week is the anniversary of when he finally tore the cruciate ligament fully through, after 3 months on lead trying to get it to heal conservatively - what a year it's been.

Yes Ragdoll and Tortie would seem to be opposite ends of the spectrum!

[Ruth B]

When i was younger any cat with ginger and black hairs was a tortishell, whether it was distinct markings or just a mottled mess of colour. Now i tend to think of Calicos as having defined areas of black and ginger and tortishell as being more brindles or fleabitten (to use an equestrian term). While this is only a personal opinion I have a feeling that Calico was more of an American term than a UK one originally but one that has crept into the British language.
If someone wants to correct me then I'm happy to be corrected, this is just the way I have seen things and its not like i have any special knowledge on the matter.

[Mollycat]

That's my understanding too Ruth that a Calico is big patches of ginger and black on a basically white cat, though I always described Misha as a brindle Tortie rather than a patchy Tortie. Then we referred to Tortie-and-white as well, but same as you I always took Calico as a bit different, though genetically I don't think they are.

[booktigger]

I'm never sure of the difference between calico and tortie, but I'd say all 3 of your girls are dilute. Cat's aren't very good at listening to instructions, the first foster cat I had spayed, the first thing she did was jump on the 6ish foot wardrobe, never caused her any issues.

[Joe_Danger]

yeah all three are dilute, no doubt there
I guess it makes sense, calico are the ones with bigger, more defined patches it's also how I generally classify them but I' not sure about Mila and Kala because they have both patches and random patterns
I guess if they had more white maybe

As for Spaska she is doing great for now, eating both dry and wet food well and is starting to want to get up to her shenanigans already, hope she keeps it in check for a few more days at least.

[Mollycat]

Ok so it was time to call upon the www experts and I found this article that exactly supports my personal view, so naturally I think this is the definitive guide to the difference between calico and tortoiseshell https://tortoiseshellcats.co.uk/differe ... at-calico/

However, if you go ahead and search the www yourselves, it appears most broadly agrees with some minor nuances rather than differences.


As a side note I love the dilutes and I also love the grey tabby / ginger tabby calico/torties, instead of black and ginger.

[Joe_Danger]

Ok so it was time to call upon the www experts and I found this article that exactly supports my personal view, so naturally I think this is the definitive guide to the difference between calico and tortoiseshell https://tortoiseshellcats.co.uk/differe ... at-calico/

However, if you go ahead and search the www yourselves, it appears most broadly agrees with some minor nuances rather than differences.


As a side note I love the dilutes and I also love the grey tabby / ginger tabby calico/torties, instead of black and ginger.

That was a very good read and I think it matches my definition too, so if I understand correctly, Spaska is a dilute tortie, even her pattern came in later which the article covers too.
And Mila and Kala are probably variants of dilute calicos, their colors have been the same their entire lives, Kala's hasn't changed since birth and their base is technically white, white bellies, chest, paws



And Spaska is a DEFINITE tortie

[Joe_Danger]

This article describes Spaska word to word
https://www.sparklecat.com/special/how- ... -loves-you
She not only bites humans but the cats too, she LOVES to bite casper's legs and feet which often annoys him but what can he do, he kinda took her under his wing since day one.
Funny lil article, lots of charm and soul in the writing but it's surprisingly true

I find the fact that a mere color/pattern essentially makes for an entirely separate sub breed or something, very strange. I hope Spaska settles down at around a year and a half or two....or am I in for a lifetime of tortietude

[Ruth B]

i've had a couple of Torti moggies, one back when I was a child and one as an adult, but both came to us as adult cats so I can't really comment on a Torti kitten, both however were two of the most loving cats I've known, but both had their own quirks which they never lost At the same time when i was a child we also had a Black and White Tuxedo kitten, and we had her from 4 weeks after the mother cat adopted us then brought us her kittens. That kitten was called Fangs because her first instinct was to bite anything she came across (and at the time of naming we intender to get her rehomed to someone else who could then give her a sensible name), if tortitude only comes with colour she should have had ginger patches as she had it in bulk, but she was pure black and white. I do wonder if some of it is due to finding what you want to find, the quiet calm Torti gets overlooked, while the one that is a mad house all by themselves gets labelled as having Tortitude.

One thing you might want to check is whether Spaska is still teething, from what I know (from the internet) kittens lose their baby teeth and grow their adult teeth somewhere between 3 and 6 months, this could be why she is so insistant on biting every thing she can, hopefully she is towards the end of that now and her biting will slow down. One trick i have heard, when a cat bites you, don't pull away, push gently in towards the mouth, it is counter intuitive, but it does make the cat open their mouths a bit and so take the pressure off the bite, and it also can confuse them long enough for you to remove the body part from the cats mouth.

On an entirely different note, I was looking at that photo of Milla and Kala, and I don't know if it is the angle the photo was taken at, but neither of them appear to have the really flat faces that Persians over here tend to have, while it is certainly there, it isn't as over pronounced and in my opinion makes them look a lot better. One reason I have never been keen on Persians is the very flat face, and I know it leads to many of the same medical problems that some of the flat faced dog breeds have, Persians and Munchkins are probably the two cat breeds that makes me worry that cat breeders might go the same way dog breeders have, and breed for over emphasised traits rather than for the animals health and well being. I know you have said that where you live can be behind on some things when it comes to pets, perhaps this is one area where being a bit behind the US/UK trend is actually a good thing and I can hope it is an area where your people don't follow our lead.

[Mollycat]

I second that, Ruth, about extreme breeding. These seem like Persians were over here 20-30 years ago, whereas now they look to me as though someone has put a finger on their nose and pushed it right into their face. Likewise pugs, boxers, bulldogs - my dad always used to say it was breeding to mimic human babies. I'm not very maternal so perhaps that explains why I find these extreme flat faces so horrifying. Siamese too were always a slender cat but have gone in my view to extreme thin fragile looking things, whereas the old fashioned far from cobby but certainly less breakable looking cat was infinitely more pleasing and, well, catlike.

[Ruth B]

Siamese were another one I was thinking about when I wrote that, but forgot to mention them at the actual time.
I've seen several posts in various places where they compare breeds to how they were in previous decades, both dogs and cats, and I don't think i've seen one that I didn't prefer the older standard to the modern ones, it is more pronounced in dogs but it is coming in some breeds of cats as well, and I really hope people start to have some more sense and breed for health as well as looks.

I frequently describe myself as having the maternal instinct of a brick, never wanted children, and when i was a teenager I was always told it was something that would certainly come as i got older, I turn 51 in a couple of weeks and I'm still waiting for it to happen. I would never want to see a child harmed, but when i hear of someone having a baby as long as Mother and Child are healthy and doing well that is all I need to know, and 'No, I don't want to hold the baby'. So perhaps, like you say that might explain why I'm not keen on the flat faced pets of any type.

[Joe_Danger]

My persians are Doll Face persians apparently and the other ones they call piggy face here
dunno if that's what they're called everywhere else in the world but that's how it is in Macedonia.
I love both types, but I'd rather stick to Doll Faced ones due to the other ones potential health issues, not that these don't have them but they're not so bad I suppose.

As for Spaska teething, I think she is done as I haven't felt that bad smell when they're teething in a few weeks, she is just a biter when she feels like it. She is exceptionally affectionate, more so than any other cat I've ha but randomly bites even when she doesn't seem overwhelmed/overloaded so you have to be careful.

[Ruth B]

I had never heard of Doll Face Persian until you mentioned the name, but a quick Google search and, they are absolutely gorgeous. They are Persians I would consider having, whereas the standard flat faced ones (at least the standard ones over here) I wouldn't as I would not want to encourage the breeding of them, particularly by breeders who want to over emphasise the flat faced look. I would add it to the list of possible fluff monsters that I would like but as all of mine have access to outside (no one is forced everything they need is inside but all enjoy the occasional once around the garden in the summer) i'd have to do some real research as to whether the coat could cope with the elements.

So once again I learn something new on here, which is something i'm always happy to do.

[Joe_Danger]

And Spaska is back to Spaska-normal today
a tad too soon if you ask me, climbing wardrobes that even I need to climb on something to get her down from and what not, normally she'd just jump off of there on the foor but we can't risk it now
The next 5-7 days are going to be rough
no way this cat can be contained in a single room or prevented from climbing everything and anything but the worst part is jumping from high places, climbing is not an issue for her.

the pic is a couple weeks old, but this is everyone's favorite climbing spot and jumping from there is a looong way down


When Spaska first climbed up there as a kitten she didn't know how to get down, started meowing, Mila got worried and tried to show her how to get down, but Spaska didn't quite get it
eventually she jumped down and then Mila gave her a good "beating" lol
Same as what Mila did with her own kittens when they'd Misbehae

It didn't take Spaska long to learn to climb up and get down from there
This spot is like a rite of passage in our cat family
there's Kala's first climb with mom Mila next to her