Night Time Howling

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CakCak
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Night Time Howling

Post by CakCak »

Hi, I've been a lurker here for a while now, and you guys have been super helpful over the years, even if i never posted!
So here we go.
Background:
I have always had outdoor cats, and have never had any issues before. My last cat was too old and blind to take with me when I moved out and lives with my parents where she knew.

We have had our brown tabby, Sky for a couple of years now. He is 5 years old, and very big for a cat(we call him bear, when he stands on his hind legs, and bulldog for the way he walks- legs go out and forward). He was a friends, who unfortunately was unable to keep him, and ended up with him, and his identical sister Midnight, being moved around quite a bit. Eventually, their owner came to stay with us, cats in tow, and gave them to us as we are much more stable and secure, and we were talking about adopting a cat anyway. About 4 months later, he moved out, and we moved into our new home as a little family.

The two of them adjusted quickly, and were very happy with there new home but unfortunately after a month Midnight was hit by a car. Sky was very upset at first, but settled down after a while. We decided to make him an indoor cat shortly after, as we were close to a main road and caught him playing chicken with a bus. He again, adjusted quickly, never tries to escape, but was obviously lonely, sleeping more, gaining weight, always wanting to play. After introducing him to my mothers adult cats, and finding out he was terrified of other animals, we settled on a 12 week old black rescue kitten, Harley.

At first he was absolutely terrified. wouldn't go anywhere near her for weeks. Eventually we let her have full run of the house, and he was forced to interact with her. Now they are best friends. She loves to play, but isn't too fussy, and doesn't like human attention, so he was never jealous of her. He perked up a lot, they play, cuddle, steal each others food...

But then the howling started. Not every night, but about 4 times a week. weather it's the weekend and he gets lots of attention and play time, or in the week, and he gets less. We have ignored it from day one, but after 3/4 months , it's seriously effected our sleeping. We feed them as we go to bed, and always have the bedroom door open. Traditionally, Harley sleeps between our legs, and Sky between our heads, he gets spooned and fussed while he is there. But he will sit at the door, at the top of the stairs and howl, he barely ever even meows, chirps yes, but not anywhere near this ungodly decibel. Then he runs downstairs, into the kitchen and howls more, then slowly, over about an hour, works his way back up the stairs, howling, into our doorway. then runs back down and starts again. occasionally, he will come into the bedroom properly, lay with us for half an hour, and start up again once we are asleep. If Harley tries to play with him, she gets battered away, and eventually climbs under the covers with us to dull the noise. weather or not we play with him before/in bed, the howling still happens.

We have ignored him from day one, apart from once near the start when he started at 3 am and I threw a shirt at him which made no difference. We have tried tiring him out before bed, going to bed earlier/later, changing routines, Feliway, more toys, a new cat climber, and nothing is working. He is eating well, drinking enough, playing fine, but almost every other night is spent screeching. It started from seemingly nowhere, and will not stop. We pretend to be asleep whenever he does it, showing him this is not how you get attention, but it doesn't work.

So what I'm asking is, what can we do to get a decent sleep pattern? We feel like giving up, and he seems far from it. He had always be such a good, playful animal, and it's so unlike his usual temperament. We cant help but feel like we did something wrong, but it started so long after he befriended Harley, and that's the last major change he has had in his life. Nothing else about him has changed, and its just so unlike him!As for trying nightlights, the house is never fully dark, we have streetlamps directly out front and back, so there's always enough light at night.
Any advice would be much appreciated!
Thanks!
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lilynmitz
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Re: Night Time Howling

Post by lilynmitz »

Poor you, this does sound frustrating and distressing, but your love and care for him is evident, and I'm sure you'll find a way through this. A few things spring to mind. Is he neutered? There may be a female on heat in the area, or a new intruder into "his patch", albeit that he doesn't go out any more. This could result in this sort of behaviour.

Have you taken him for a check up at the vet? Blindness or deafness could be an issue, which can affect even younger cats. If it's one of these, there are a few things that can be done to help him settle.

I'm not sure how old he must be now, but if he's over the age of 10 yrs, it could also be a sign of Hyperthyroidism, which is also treatable.

Otherwise, the main thing I think is to look at his world through his eyes, with a cat's brain, and try to see what's upsetting him, because he does sound quite distressed (as are you, now!).

Sorry this isn't a definitive magic-wand answer, but they're a few points to start the ball rolling.
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Re: Night Time Howling

Post by CakCak »

Yeah, he is neutered, I briefly mentioned at the beginning of my spiel, he's coming up on 5 years old. he had an ear infection last summer, but since then he hasn't shown any sign of ear pain or hearing loss, and he definitely isn't blind, he follows treats with his eyes etc. (read that as: he sits behind me on the sofa and steals food off my fork if I'm not looking)
If he carries on much more it'll have to be the vets, I just feel awful taking him there, he hates every second of it, the only way to get him into the carrier is to pinch the scruff of his neck so he freezes, and then man handle him in. I have many a scar from previous trips!
He sounds so stressed, but then he's just sat behind me now, purring to himself with no attention at all, back to his old self. Its like a Jekyll and Hyde thing with him, when I'm out he doesn't act like this (I set up a camera to monitor him last week).
I guess I was just hoping to see if anyone else had a similar issue, vets are great, but expensive, and unless there's something really wrong, I don't like stressing him out.

Also, for all of the above
Tl;dr: My cat is being an ass
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lilynmitz
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Re: Night Time Howling

Post by lilynmitz »

Have a look at this link - this might help?

http://www.catchat.org/meowing.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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CakCak
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Re: Night Time Howling

Post by CakCak »

Yeah I have read through that before, tried a few bits from it, I just dunno what else to try. Last night he was quiet as a mouse, so I finally got some sleep, but I didn't do anything different in our routine to the night before when I didn't sleep at all so next time we have a howling session I'm going to take him to the vets, at least attempt to get something sorted.
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Re: Night Time Howling

Post by meriad »

as a first of I'd make 100% sure he isn't deaf... next time he's sleeping make a gentle noise and see if he reacts. Maybe the ear infection did affect his hearing?

Also have you tried leaving a radio on quietly, or leaving a light on.

the other thing it could be is that he's hungry and looking for food? Do they have food down all the time or a set meal time?

Lots of questions sorry, but just asking whilst I think of things to ask :)
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Re: Night Time Howling

Post by Baggypants »

I agree with Ria about checking his hearing. But if everything turns out ok there (fingers crossed) perhaps try some zylkene in his food for a few weeks? It might help him settle if there's something stressing him?
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CakCak
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Re: Night Time Howling

Post by CakCak »

I'm sure he isn't deaf vet checked his hearing after his infection and said he was fine. I did check his ears last night for signs of mites or infection while he was asleep last night and as I left the room I bumped one of his balls (the kind with bells inside) and he almost fell off the back of the sofa in shock (he's not the most elegant or nimble of creatures). I'll defiantly keep an eye on it tho in case it was a coincidence, and get a vet to look if we take him.
meriad wrote:Also have you tried leaving a radio on quietly, or leaving a light on.
We haven't tried a radio, our neighbor works nights, and his Mrs keeps to his sleeping pattern, so usually you can hear their TV through the wall, and there are street lamps directly outside the front and back doors, so the house is well lit even at night but I will give both a go in the darker hallway.
meriad wrote:Do they have food down all the time or a set meal time?

Both. they always have dry food down, they have separate rooms and bowls so he has plenty available (though we have to mix food back into the pack as he wont eat biscuits that have been out more than 6hrs for some reason), and we give him wet food in the morning about 8/9am, and just before we go to bed 9/10pm. He's a grazer, so he sometimes still has a little wet food left in a morning when we go to give him his brekky.We usually spend the hour before dinner playing with his favorite toy (a shoelace) to tucker him out for bedtime. Doesn't always work... :lol:
Baggypants wrote:perhaps try some zylkene in his food for a few weeks?
Will do, we have a good couple of pet shops, so I should be able to get some tonight lets hope it woks!
I have an important meeting tomorrow morning so fingers crossed no howling tonight!
I have begun planning on something similar to this:
http://www.ikeahackers.net/2014/07/a-ga ... adise.html
Hoping fresh air might help him, its been over a year since he became an indoor cat, and i still feel guilty over it now! will put grass on the bottom instead of another litter tray, might be nice for them :P
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lilynmitz
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Re: Night Time Howling

Post by lilynmitz »

My old girl Lily sometimes campaigns relentlessly for me to go downstairs to give her company when I'm working upstairs (she doesn't do stairs any more), which drove me nuts and was distressing to hear, but I found leaving the telly on quietly helped her settle. If you can find a low volume that doesn't disturb you or your neighbours, but which settles your puss, it might be worth a try?
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Re: Night Time Howling

Post by Willowgill »

Poor boy he sounds very upset and something I can well relate to as we had the same problem with our old boy who we lost in Nov. He was perfectly fine all day but would start to howl half an hour after we went to bed which in a small apartment made it impossible to sleep. He would run into the kitchen as soon as I got up and of course I ended up feeding him several times a night - eventually around 4 or 5 am he'd finally settle down just as it was nearly time to get up! We tried everything but in the end put it down to senility and the fact that he was blind which obviously isn't the case here. Have you tried Bachs flower remedy? There are different types for different conditions so you could trial a few to see if any help. Could it be that a cat is coming into the vicinity and he is trying to go out to chase it off? You could try setting up your camera to see what he's doing downstairs when he's crying. It could simply be that he's bored and wanting to go out so perhaps making him a shelf high up where he can see out at night might help? I know its really frustrating and distressing to hear them making such a racket for no apparent reason but hopefully things will settle down eventually.
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Re: Night Time Howling

Post by CakCak »

Hi guys, bit of an update:
So after 3 nights of silence, he started up again last night, I have a camera set up, and had a look, hes carrying around toys (the ones he refuses to play with normally) in his mouth which is weird, as he is very fussy with what we play with, when. We play before bed until he gets tired and gives up so I'm not sure what hes expecting/ wanting from this, and as he pushes Harley away when she tries to play with him at night i don't understand. I'm making an appointment with our vets to get a once over just in case, hopefully if there is something physically wrong we will find it.
Ps. I should mention, we left a nightlight on in the dark hallway, and had the radio on in the living room, so that's not helped.
Willowgill wrote:Have you tried Bachs flower remedy?
No, but I will now!
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Re: Night Time Howling

Post by meriad »

Interesting one... whenever my Ava catches a mouse she'll mewl off to announce to everyone that she's got something. The rest of my cats come running when they hear her.

I wonder if Sky is actually trying to teach Harley to catch prey etc; esp with him carrying his toys in his mouth and making noises? How old is Harley now?
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Re: Night Time Howling

Post by Crewella »

Two of my original cats (sadly now passed) used to do this. They would periodically wander round with a toy in their mouths and give a particular call. They never seemed to expect a reaction, either from us or from the other cats (if we did come they just walked past, still yelling and still with the 'fluffy'). Both were girls and had been mums in their early days, and I wondered if that was anything to do with it, but I never really knew why. The other cats ignored it, it didn't last all that long, and we left them to it.

At that time, all our cats were related and very close, and if I was trying to do something unpleasant (like give a worming pill) to one and it started wailing, all the others would come running to see what was up, so I never thought of this behaviour as a cat distressed in any way.

As Ria says, Daz does a very similar call when he brings prey home, though it doesn't actually get a reaction from the rest of the gang ....... they probably know 'Fatboy' will eat it all himself anyway!
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Re: Night Time Howling

Post by lilynmitz »

My Lily used to do this (she's too old now!). She used to carry her catnip toys round the house howling her head off to tell us she'd found them. We just used to put them all out of reach at night - no more howling!
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Re: Night Time Howling

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meriad wrote:I wonder if Sky is actually trying to teach Harley to catch prey etc; esp with him carrying his toys in his mouth and making noises? How old is Harley now?
That could be it, she's almost 10 months now, and it did start about two months after we got her - she was 4 months at the time. I suppose that would explain why he beats her off too, 'This is my prey, don't touch. Practice on something else'
lilynmitz wrote:We just used to put them all out of reach at night - no more howling!
That's defiantly tonight's plan! Fingers Crossed!
Crewella wrote:At that time, all our cats were related and very close, and if I was trying to do something unpleasant (like give a worming pill) to one and it started wailing, all the others would come running to see what was up
Ours are like that too, I tried expanding Harley's collar earlier, and got attacked by Skye! Luckily, they're such hungry beggers worming pills get put in a treat and are gone in a second!

But yeah, hopefully this is the issue and we can sort it! Thanks everyone I'd be going mad without you guys :D With 6am starts on a daily basis, me and my OH really need our sleep back!
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Re: Night Time Howling

Post by Baggypants »

Bagheera used to go 'hunting' in the middle of the night. We'd wake to hear her meowling somewhere in the house - I'd rush to check if she was ok and she'd be half asleep with one of her toys in her mouth - once it was a 3 foot stuffed snake with a bell at the end which was very funny :lol:
She hasn't done it for ages though - I think since the other cats moved in with us.
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Re: Night Time Howling

Post by Catfan5 »

Haha! Alfie does this at night too, he raids the laundry basket and carries socks around making that yowly meowy noise! In the morning we find socks in odd places. We have to shut him out of the bedroom if he makes too much noise though :)
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Re: Night Time Howling

Post by CakCak »

Update!
Since we have been hiding the toys at night, no more howling! However, he has learned how to open all the cupboards and draws and ate all his dental treats!

Thanks for all the help and advice guys!
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Re: Night Time Howling

Post by lilynmitz »

Well done! All you need to do now is to get child locks on the cupboard doors!
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