Struggling to pill Kylie with Metronidazole

[MarkB]

Some might remember I posted about her chronic loose poos. She was prescribed some ABs and Fortiflora. The vet said worst-case, she may have Lymphoma. She hasn't improved, in fact the explosive diarrhea is happening more often. The vet I saw originally said the next step was steroids. He is away at the moment and I saw the practice owner. He said he thinks it might be Giardia. He warned me that the tablets are very bitter (they are coated, but the cat dose is 1/2, twice a day, so exposes the bitter part)

He did the first dose for me. My attempt tonight was a nightmare. Kylie has decided she doesn't like webbox any more, so I tried the 'down the hatch' method. She was foaming at the mouth and drooling on the floor.

I thought I was quite experienced at pilling and have had to use every trick in the book over the years - treats, chicken, ham. butter etc. running out of ideas. I am planning on melting some sugar and coating them that way unless I can find another way.

I can do down the hatch, but know that they are so bitter, it will be horrible for her. She never scratches me, but tonight, I was bleeding and not just a bit!

A very long shot that someone might have an unusual idea.

PS - I even tried a capsule, but they are quite big, so she wouldn't eat it. I may have to try Holland & Barrett tomorrow.

[Crewella]

Poor Kylie. I wish I could come up with something useful to help her, but in your shoes I think the best I could do would be down the hatch as speedily as possible followed by something to take the taste away.

The sugar coating sounds a good idea, but I'm thinking you'd need it to set quickly or it might start to absorb the bitterness. Perhaps down the hatch but in a smaller capsule, if you can find one?

[lilynmitz]

Sorry to hear this Mark. What a rotten experience for both of you. Have you tried pill launchers? (ie a tube with an inner tube that will fire the pill to the back of her throat) so she doesn't taste the bitterness so much? The vet might have some. You might have to resort to the towel routine to get it into her mouth without losing any more blood though.

[MarkB]

Thanks Helen,

I think that might be the answer. I don't have time to order them, so I think I will have to have a look through the things they sell in Holland & Barrett - we have a branch up the road.

Even with down the hatch, it really does need to go straight down. The reaction to these meds seems even worse than Drontal. They must be really bitter.

She had some palatable ABs a couple of weeks ago and it was just a case of dropping them on the floor

Anna, I think I might have to give one a go. I have a rubber tipped one, so hopefully that will make it easier.

[SarahT1 [PLLE]]

We really struggled with this medication for Edgar who refused it in Webbox after a few days of being prepared to tolerate it. In the end he came off it because it seemed that his gingivitis was down to cereal intolerance anyway. However, I know that Jill recommends sprinkling it in water. We never got to that stage, and it depends if Kylie is a big drinker anyway. I think you've already had the right advice anyway. Love to Kylie and Dom.

[Kay]

have you come across this thread Mark? http://www.thecatsite.com/t/254173/metr ... de-effects" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

as is usual in my experience, there is far more discussion of medications and vets in the US than over here, so there might be more of the same if you go looking

[HRHFluffy]

Really sorry to hear about this Mark. What a worry for you. I don't have much to suggest as I rely totally on webbox for pilling Fluffy. If she went off it as your Kylie has then that would be it as far as pilling is concerned. However I've found the Nature's Menu treats to be slightly more tempting for her. Maybe they have a stronger taste. Hope you find some way of getting them down her.

[Walesgang]

Really sorry about Kylie Mark.

We tend to do the 'down the hatch' method. When we were giving Luna oral meds as part of the chemo protocol we did it together to make sure. They were pretty nasty stuff. Hubby got a tiny bit in his hand once, and said he felt a slight tingle, so we got very good at getting it right for her.

One would wrap her front legs in a folded towel and hold it around the back of her neck with one hand. The other would open her mouth. One would get the pill in as far as we could. Finally, we would shrynge a small amount of water to help make sure the pill went down. It sounds like a bit of a faff, but it became an efficient process and Luna just accepted it. There was less stress for her than us mucking it up and her getting tastes of the meds.

The only one of ours we crush pills for is Mr G because he will eat ANYTHING!

Fusses to your girl x

[MarkB]

I think this one is ultra bitter. Not only was she foaming at the mouth, she was dripping spittle onto the floor.

I normally do down the hatch, but unless it really does go straight down...

Anyway, I remembered I had come biscuits in the cupboard with hard, chewy caramel in. I melted some in the microwave and coated the 2 halves.

She came outside about 1/2 hour ago and was lying in her garden bed (as she did last night, for the forst time in about 2 years - I think it is because the torties have gone, but that is another story) I took some Nature's Menu treats and one of the caramel coated tablets. I gave her a treat and then the tablet. Shewas licking it and then picked it up in her mouth, but dropped it. I did 'down the hatch' as it was still covered in caramel, I don;t think she got any of it on her tongue. Only 13 more doses to go!!!!

I will keep an eye on her Kay, but apparently this is the most effective med for Giardia.

PS - Luckily, Budgens sell the Bon Maman biscuits, so I will pick some more up today!

[Crewella]

They look like tiny toffee apples!

Just a thought, but as you're good at doing little fiddly things might it be worth trying to fit half a pill in half a caplet? If you moisten the open end they become quite malleable and you could fold it in, and as it's a pill and not powder you don't have to get it absolutely sealed, you just need to shield the pill as it goes down.

[MarkB]

Thanks Helen, I might give that a try. She just came in and did an explosive poo, so a reminder that I need to get them down her. I really hope the vet is right and it isn't anything more sinister. I will go out later, but expecting the car to be picked up later for repair.

I will pick up more caramel biscuits anyway

[Crewella]

Poor Kylie, I hope she feels better soon. I really hope your vet's right too, all paws here crossed for her. xx

[Meandmymunki]

Metronidazole tablets are the pits! I have 2 on them ATM for ibd and post surgery but we stopped tablets as couldn't get them down them at all. They are now on a mil of liquid each twice a day and while still smells grim it doesn't make them foam and go nuts and seems to go down quite smoothly.

[MarkB]

Tonight's didn't go as well. The first time, I got it down her throat, but she was determined to cough it back up. I also bled. I ended up wrapping her up in my hoodies and getting it down her throat again. She made a pathetic crying sound

Has to be done though. I will ask the vet about the liquid.

[lilynmitz]

Gosh that sounds grim Mark. Well done persevering. I hope you can use the liquid instead, sounds like it will be less distressing for all. But harder to make sure she gets the right dose.

[Crewella]

Poor Kylie, and poor you. xx

If it's any help, when I've had to pill difficult cats with ABs I have found that, if I'm really firm and stick with it, they have got more accepting of the situation by about half way through the course. I always do medications just before meals so they know they have to get through one before they get the other.

[MarkB]

After thinking last night was a success, I found a sticky caramel coated tablet on the kitchen floor this morning.

I tried your softened, empty capsule method Helen. I boiled some water. Held the capsule in until it softened, dropped the 1/2 tablet in, sealed it up and left it to set, which only took seconds. To be doubly sure, I rolled it in softened butter and went in for the attack. Kylie was sunning herself on the rug in the hallway. I wrapped her up in a hoodie and pilled her. The first attempt was with the silicon ended pill popper, but she spat it out. I just did it with with finger quickly and tipped her back, stroking her throat.

Luckily the local pet shop sells the Nature's menu chicken treats, which I think she still likes, so will get some of those later.

Another explosive poo this morning

[HRHFluffy]

What a worry for you Mark. Hope the Nature's Menu treats work. Do the tablets have to be given in exactly half tablet doses? Could they be cut in to smaller ones or would they not be as effective then?

[MarkB]

I have to give her half twice a day Carol. I would rather get it down in one if possible. They are quite brittle and only have one score.

[Crewella]

I hate it when you think you've been successful, and then find evidence to the contrary lurking in a corner somewhere. I hope you manage to get the rest down her, if not it certainly won't be for want of trying.

If she'll take it, I always give a treat straight after 'down the hatch' in the hope that it will take the pill the rest of the way down with it so they can't hoik it back up again.

Fusses to poor Kylie, if only we could explain that we're trying to help!

[MarkB]

I bought the Nature's menu treats today. I hid the pill in one. Tonight, I did my old trick of giving her 2 untainted ones first. The third had the pill in - she spat it out. As she was quite relaxed, I bit the bullet and poked it down her throat - she was over it quickly and ate some gourmet gold

I can't afford to let it go with these if there is any chance of clearing up her bottom explosions - assuming Giardia is the cause. I know she knows I love her and I am quickly forgiven

[Crewella]

Well done - another one down!

Most of mine are very forgiving as well. Except Grumpy Nellie ........ and you might have guessed that as the clue's in the title!

[MarkB]

Alice was always the hardest to pill. My frail little old lady put up the biggest fight at worming time. I had the course of antibiotics for an infected finger to prove it


NEWS FLASH - WE HAVE SOLIDS IN TRAY

[Crewella]

Alice was always the hardest to pill. My frail little old lady put up the biggest fight at worming time. I had the course of antibiotics for an infected finger to prove it

Typical of cat owners, I think, to say that without rancour, with respect and with a hint of pride! Dear Alice, God rest her soul.

Go, Kylie!

[Walesgang]

Fab news on the solids front

[lilynmitz]

Yaay, the joy of solid poo!

[MarkB]

Sorry to say that we had a cow pat this morning - not as smelly as usual though. One of the main side effects of the meds is diarrhea, so I am really hoping it was caused by them. It was looking really promising yesterday.

[Cussypat1974]

Mark, metronidazole is available as a liquid for infants which can be given to cats. I have had it prescribed in the past. It is sweetened for human kids, so the horrible bitterness is gone. The dose works out as a small amount for a cat, so if you can inject it into the mouth it is FAR FAR easier than metronidazole tablets. I honestly don't know why vets even bother with those tablets as the difficulty getting them into a placid cat, even for the most experienced, is just ridiculous!

ask your vet for a prescription for the kiddie human stuff under the cascaded system. It works out very expensive, as you have to buy a hue bottle, but is cheaper than wastage in the long run! I have even been prescribed it for snakes!

I am not sure that metronidazole cures giardiasis though? Parazole liquid does, over 5 days, and they don't like that either, but it is usually possible to get it down their necks.......

My Holmsey went through exactly the same as Kylie recently. We did parazole, metronidazole, amoxicillin, blood tests, and he was diagnosed with lymphoma as a high probability. a scan would have confirmed it. But he had become so weak by then we had him euthanised. We didn't do the bile-acid tests because getting blood from him was a nightmare - he was always as good as gold, but the blood justs didn't flow.

Has she been tested for thyroid function btw? I was SO disappointed when Holmsey's thyroid test came back a-ok, because we could have dealt with that........

Very best wishes to Kylie. DO ask for the liquid human-child metronizadole. Flagyl liquid, it is pink and sweet, and cats really take it well. I managed to hide the pills in chicken for Holmsey, but other cats have proved impossible over the years. It is a GREAT drug if you can get it into them! And you won't know if her loose pooh is down to infection otherwise eh?