Help & advice for Max please

[Suze]

Hi all,

Its been quite a long time since I've posted, ever since losing my beautiful Wiggins almost 18 months ago. Generally things have been good with the cats & dogs. Polly has very early stage renal disease (they say too early to treat), Tiger's IBD has been up and down but everybody else has been plodding along.

That said, I have a pickle with Max, my 10 year old, overweight lad. He's a housecat with access to an outdoor enclosed cat run. I'm not sure what to do and could really use some advice from some like minded cat people.

Max has no history of any illness & the only time he's been to the vet is for routine flu/enteritis vaccines and to be a blood donor for Claude some years ago.

However, he hasn't eaten since Friday evening and is not himself. I'm not sure what to do, whether to take him down to the very very expensive chain of emergency vets or hang on & get him in with a vet I know & trust tomorrow morning. He's not insured (I could kick myself because it just got so expensive insuring 7 cats & 3 dogs) so although I wish it didn't come into it, the financial side does come into it. That said, if emergency vet is the only option, then that's what it'll be.

Anyway, he hasn't eaten since Friday evening. He seemed a bit quiet on Saturday morning, active, but not crying for his breakfast as he normally would. Then he was sick (clearish, slightly yellowy-brown is colour and a bit frothy). He didn't want breakfast and again Saturday evening, didn't want his dinner. He was sick again Saturday night (clearish, light brown, no froth this time, just a little bit of fur). I offered him some roast chicken and also white fish but he had no interest in either.

We decided to leave him overnight and see how he was this morning. But no change, still no interest in eating & he looks like he's not feeling the best. He has no diarrhoea, I saw him go for a wee yesterday evening and no blood in that. His temperature is 37.9 so that's normal, resp rate is 27 breaths per minute so that's normal too. His ears are forward but his head is leaning down. He pricks his ears when I call him but doesn't move. He will let me pick him up & hasn't cried in pain, but we all know they don't show it at the best of times. He'd rather be sat in his bed though or on one of the cat shelves. I can't see that he's eaten anything he shouldn't. He has licked his lips a couple of times, but it's not often enough that I would say he's nauseous.

I have called the emergency vets. The receptionist said to take him in but I said I'd rather one of their vets call me back. They said it would be about 20 minutes but that was an hour ago so if I don't hear soon, I'll call again.

I do have a tendency to overreact, so I don't know whether I should be rushing him in or I should maybe try & syringe feed to get something into him & see my vet first thing tomorrow. I don't know a huge amount about fatty liver syndrome but it is a concern as he is a chunky lad.

Any thoughts gratefully received.

Suzy x

[Kay]

hi Suzy - glad to see you back

the bile and the lack of interest in food probably rules out any kind of trauma to his throat or mouth - has he let you check his teeth?

given the time of year and the rather sudden increase in temperature, it could just be a blocked fur ball, which would account for the bile too - is he prone to them?

[Suze]

Hi Kay,

Good to hear from you. Are you well?

I wouldn't say he exactly let me... His teeth aren't great but I couldn't see anything major, but sometimes it's something you wouldn't think that is just really painful, isn't it...

Good thought about furballs. He's never suffered with furballs before so not sure about that... I might have some laxapaste in the cupboard...do you think I should try it in case?

The emergency vet called back. She said I should take him in because although I gave her all the information above, she said she couldn't really say anything without seeing him. My heart says take him but my head says to hang on a bit, both because I tend to panic and because of the money. The vet said to bring him in and pop him on a drip to make sure he's hydrated and do some bloods would be in the region of £450 initially.

I've just syringed him some liquidised Butchers with a bit of added water & also 4 syringes of water. It's typical I didn't have a syringe suitable so OH had to drill out the bottom of a metacam syringe. I'm going to give him a couple of hours and see if it stays down.

I really don't know whether I should just be taking him in. She didn't sound that nice or helpful on the phone & I really would rather see my own vet tomorrow.

[Kay]

me and my two are fine

Tosker's been with me 5 years now, and brought up his very first furball the other day, which is what made me thing of it really - I can't see that dosing him with laxapaste would do any harm, and as cats seem to like the taste it might just get him eating again

if you have been able to syringe liquidized food into him without causing him any obvious pain it suggests it isn't a problem with his mouth - I wonder if he would lap it up on his own - I once had a cat with a severely ulcerated tongue who I kept going for a week on liquidized food with liver included to attract her, as she loved the stuff

I presume you could rush him to the emergency vet at any time if you adopt a wait and see approach, so I can't think you are risking much by doing so, especially as it sounds as if that is basically all the vet will do anyway, at a huge cost, and probably making him more miserable

[Suze]

I'm really pleased that you're all doing well.

I tried putting food in front of him first - smelly warmed tuna, white fish & the liquid butchers - he sniffed but just turned away. He's laid out on the bedroom floor now. If he keeps it down, I'll try some more in a couple of hours and see if we can make it through to morning.

Yes, the emergency vet is 10 minutes away and they are there until 8am in the morning. The 'get through the door fee' as I call it goes up by £35 after 11am but if they're going to charge me silly money anyway, another £35 won't make a big difference.

He's really not himself though. He's such a foodie boy, this is so not like him. I might nip out and get some prawns and salmon. I think there's some liver in the freezer for the dogs so I can see if that will tempt him too. I have a feeling nothing will though.

I just can't understand what it might be, that came on so suddenly, overnight...

[Crewella]

I agree with Kay, especially as you've managed to get a little food down him, I don't think you're risking too much if you try and wait it out until you can see your own vet tomorrow. Just keep a very close eye on him, which I'm sure you'd do anyway.

I hope you get to the bottom of it, and that he's feeling better soon. xx

...... and hi!

[Suze]

Hi Helen, thank you for replying.

I wasn't happy with how Max was so took him to another vet I've used before with fosters we've had. They're open on weekends. They did a senior blood profile & his creatinine is really high - about 960, I think the upper end of normal range was about 190. His bladder was also huge & the end of his pen!s was sore so they believe he has a blockage. They referred him onto another vet who they've sent referrals to before because they don't have anyone on site for overnight monitoring. I've not heard of the place so I'm having to trust judgement. I've just dropped him off there & they're going to anaesthetised him, xray his bladder to check for stones, try to clear the blockage & catheterise him & put him on fluids overnight. Estimate was £360, I have no idea whether that is good but the other vet said it would have been a lot more at the chain out of hours vet.

All of bit of a shock & so sudden. Hoping to hear from them in a couple of hours. Feel incredibly worried about the anaesthetic as well with his kidney values high. Really very worried.

[booktigger]

I'm really sorry to hear he's so poorly, fingers crossed for him.

[Kay]

try not to worry Suzy - dangerous though they can be if left, blockages are not uncommon in male cats, and should not be beyond a reasonably good vet to sort

thank goodness you followed your instincts and took him today though - tomorrow might have been too late

it just goes to show no one knows them like their owners - I hope you'll soon have Max home and back to his usual self

[JulieandBarney]

Hi Suzy

Glad to hear from you again, I remember Wiggins so well.

Hopefully Max will be sorted with his blockage and soon back home with you... I understand your concerns, my Barney has reccurrent bouts of cystitis and I worry he may go down the same route, so I totally understand your feelings...I have to take it 1 day at a time right now.....let us know how he is ...xx

[Suze]

Thank you Desley, Kay & Julie for your good wishes. They're much appreciated.

Kay - I've not had a cat with a blockage before but from what I've read online, I guess his weight doesn't help. He had lost over a kilo when we stopped giving dry food completely but we restarted them on Applaws senior when it came out & it seems he's put it back on. He weighed in at 7.5kg today!

Julie - thank you for posting. I was just reading about how Barney has been. The thing with Max is that I saw him go for a wee both last night & this morning. He was only in the tray about 10 seconds or so & I checked the litter after & it was wet. He wasn't obviously straining which I find odd given the diagnosis. Don't laugh but I'm actually wondering about whether it's possible to put a Web cam in a litter tray...would that be a step too far?

I've heard from the vet & she said she's managed to get a catheter in and clear it. She said she'd never seen quite so much come out both in terms of the muck and urine. They've got him on fluids & will see how he goes overnight. I'm not sure whether they want to move him back to the other vets for daytime monitoring tomorrow, but it seems pointless to me, of he'll have to go back there for the evening. I'm not sure bringing him back to my local vet is right either if he's settled where he is. The vet says she needs to discuss it with the other vet because of ethics but I just want what's less stressful for Max & I imagine that's probably staying where he is?

[JulieandBarney]

Hi Suze

Webcam ? No, not too extreme, at the moment I would seriously consider it with my fella !! :

As soon as my vet touches Barneys bladder, he pees for England,all over the table...though if these occurences keep happening, he has said he has to go in for a scan, to rule out kidney stones, I dread watching him go to his tray or on in the garden, it's such a worry all the time....even tonight I am watching him like a hawk, I can't relax.......he too would go in his tray for a few seconds and a tiny bit of wee would be there. only difference is, that he would continuously try to 'go' in ever place imaginable, poor fella.......

Thankfully now, he is happy after his supper and sleeping...I swear I suffer more than he does with worry !!!

[lilynmitz]

My Lily had bladder stones, but the vet operated and cleared them all out, and she never had the problem again, and only rarely had minor flare ups of cystitis which I knocked on the head with cystease. She had just about very other medical condition, but the op certainly cured this one. I know it can be different for boy cats, but hopefully this will help a lot. I think you may be able to manage crystals In his urine with diet as well. I do hope he's feeling better tomorrow.

[Crewella]

I must admit, stuff the ethics, it's surely less stressful for the patient to stay where he is?

My Daz's number of blockages went into double figures a couple of years ago, so they're relatively straightforward to deal with once spotted. It's getting to the root cause that's the hardest bit.

I think you're right about the weight, Daz didn't really get better until he's lost about a kilo. He had struvite 'sand' and is still on a maintenance dose of Cystophan and has lots of water added to his wet food. I did also feed a urinary food at the time and avoid fish. Thankfully, Daz has been fine for just over 18 months now. Touch wood.

I found these sites very helpful:

http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_fe ... t_dis.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.catinfo.org/?link=urinarytracthealth" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.icatcare.org/advice/feline-l ... ease-flutd" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I really hope Max is OK, give him a scritch from me when you see him and Daz sends his sympathies. xx

[greenkitty]

Hi Suzy

Lovely to see you back even if it is under such distressing circumstances, I don't have anything useful to add but I hope Max is ok.

[Suze]

Hi Anna - that's really good to hear about Lily's bladder stones. The vet yesterday said the xray showed none but another vet reviewed them this morning and thought otherwise.

Hi Helen - thank you so much for those links, there's a huge amount of useful information there. Is cystophan something I can get online or via the vet? I've heard of other brands as well whilst reading through a few posts here yesterday - what are the differences? My head feels a little mushy at the moment with it all.

Julia - thank you too for the welcome back. I just wish it wasn't under miserable circumstances.

Max isn't happy at all at the vets. He's hiding away. He hadn't eaten anything but is on a drip for fluids. Another vet reviewed his xrays from yesterday & decided he did think there were stones. He did an ultrasound & found a large one 8x5mm & two obvious smaller ones. He said it was 'dicey' to try & resolve it with diet & meds as not knowing what they were made of, we wouldn't know if we were giving the right things. So, I've had to borrow £1000 from my Mum to pay for the operation. He said he can't guarantee clearing them all but he would try his best. I'm waiting to hear how things have gone. I feel sick with worry. I can't help wondering what it is with male neutered cats. Wiggins' VAS, Claude's lymphoma, Tiger's IBD & now Max.... I must admit I am annoyed at the vet from yesterday who said there were no stones on the xray though.

[Crewella]

Cystophan is non-prescription and you can get it from your vet or online. Cystaid is pretty much the same and there are others similar, however both Cystophan and Cystaid also have the added ingredient l-tryptophan which helps them deal with stress, which some of the others don't have.

If he has stones, then at least you have a plan of action, and for the future the urinary diet foods to help, and added water is essential. Once they have removed them, they should be able to tell you what they are.

Poor Max, it's rotten when they're stuck at the vets. All paws here crossed for him. xx

[greenkitty]

I found Cystophan was much cheaper online, I got a whole tub for what the vet charged for a weeks supply! I think I got them from VetUK.

[Kay]

I give Tiffany Vet UK's in-house Bladder Nutriment as I find them the easiest to open of the various supplements - none of them seem to smell or taste of anything though, so they're easy to disguise in any wet food

[Crewella]

Yes indeed, it's much cheaper online. I get mine either on eBay or through Animed. It's £7.71 through Animed at the moment, with free UK postage.

[Walesgang]

Hi Suzy

Sorry to hear you are having health problems with Max.

Hope he's feeling better and home soon

Val and the gang

[Suze]

Thank you - I've got some on order.

For those of you that have used the prescription foods, have you found much variety available brand/flavour wise? I'm not sure what to start with...

I went to visit Max today. I was there about 40 minutes before I was asked to leave. I know they're busy but the timing wasn't great. He'd only just started to eat a bit of prawn from my hand & it was the first thing he'd eaten since Friday night. I've asked whether an appetite stimulant might help but they didn't seem keen. I'm surprised as Friday until now sounds a really long time to me. What do you think? I never know when I'm a being a bit neurotic.

They're going to take his catheter out in the morning & if he passes water, with some luck, he might be able to come home tomorrow evening. Part of me is looking forward to having him back but I do feel a bit worried if he's not going to eat. :-/

[Crewella]

He might be more likely to eat when he safe at home. That is a long time, and I must admit that I would have been really peed off if anyone had tried to chuck me out at such a moment. My vets always let me visit and bring 'home food' as they are more likely to eat that, especially if you're there to give it to them.

Hopefully he will be OK tomorrow and you can get him home. All paws here crossed for him.

On the prescription foods, it might be an idea to wait until you know exactly what the stones are, and if they manage to get them all out, and then chat to your vet about which prescription diet might help. Some of the foods are specifically to dissolve and prevent the formation of crystals, mainly struvite, there is also one (Hills I think) that also helps reduce stress in cats with urinary problems. It's also worth mentioning that both Hills and Royal Canin do a low calorie version of their prescription urinary diets, Hills c/d is 'Reduced Calorie' and Royal Canin Urinary is 'Moderate Calorie' - I found them really helpful in keeping the weight off Daz.

[Suze]

Max is home.

I picked him up last night & have settled him in a cage in the bedroom. I'm not sure if I'm being overly cautious but the vet said to keep him quiet. I'd planned on room rest but when I let him out of the basket he just did laps of the living room up on the backs of the sofas & down again. Probably just relieved to be home but I don't want him damaging anything from the surgery. He'd also weed in his basket & got his back end covered.

So far so good, although he still doesn't want to eat. I just managed to tempt him with a few prawns & a bit of meat before I did his metacam but it was just a few bits. Not sure what to do next. I have some mirtazipine so could give him a quarter of one of those. Not sure if it's psychological or not. He really doesn't like the buster collar which isn't helping. I'm wondering whether to see if he'll eat with the others later?

For anyone who has been through similar, what did you do post surgery? Did you keep them separate from the other cats or let them all back together? I'm wondering if he'd be happier back with the gang, but I'm not sure whether it's a good idea or not. Worried about his stitches etc. & him jumping about.

[Crewella]

Glad he's home. I did let Daz back in with the rest when he got home, but I guess I should say that my gang are mostly oldies so not all that boisterous. Maybe keep him caged for a day or so until he calms a bit and then try lettin ghim loose. He might be more likely to eat when everything is back to normal, otherwise you'll have to stick to hand-feeding him and hoping that will kick-start his appetite.

I hope he's feeling better soon.

[greenkitty]

Glad Max is home, I always let mine in together when they come home, I figure it's less stressful but I do have a boisterous chap so have be on guard. Would he be more comfortable in something like a comfy collar?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Thrive-BCC2-Com ... llar+small" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I've also got a spare one of these which I could pop in the post of you think he'd prefer it: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Company-of-Anim ... ter+collar" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hector was always happier in one of those...

[Suze]

I had a missed call from the vet last night. I can't believe it's been over 4 weeks since the bladder stones were sent away and the report has only just come back. The stones were 100% struvite stones - apparently the most common type for cats. I'll have to give the vet a call back after the weekend. I'm not sure what we have to do next to try and clear anything that's left (hopefully nothing) & prevent them reforming.