Oh dear trouble with Thomas alas....

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Sue Goddard
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Oh dear trouble with Thomas alas....

Post by Sue Goddard »

Sadly we have a problem with darling Thomas....

We've had him and his brother ( although now don't think they are related at all..) since 22nd March..We took them on not knowing anything about there previous life. They weren't even microchipped and were told they were about 3.5 years old.
They didn't take long to settle in and we love them very much. They love to play and love the garden...but..BUT..Thomas pees everywhere. He will use the littler tray (and goes in the garden when out ) Early on he has taken to peeing in our bedroom and elsewhere..He doesn't pee just a little, he can pee for England. He's sorry after and knows he's done wrong. The bedroom now stinks..we've cleaned the carpet and have used a urine neutreliser..but still smells awful.
We have tried to keep them out of bedroom at night but at 5 am or even earlier they are clawing at the carpet to get in..so that bits ruined too. When they come in he pees..
We had this problem with our beloved Bailey and Abby..our previous Siamese. They were both prolific sprayers. They ruined many expensive pieces of furniture as well as the fridge freezer and various electrical items by peeing, either on them or the sockets.
When Abby died Bailey became a different cat.He never spayed again..and became so loving. Obviously Abby was a bully.
We are sadly thinking that we may have to rehome Thomas..I'm thinking maybe he would be better as an only cat...Yet..YET...there they are this morning fast asleep together in their basket all curled up together, butter wouldn't melt in their mouths.
I'm so afraid Mouse will be as heartbroken as us to lose Thomas.. don't know what it will do to him being on his own..he's such a loving cat, loves to play and seems to get on well with Thomas. They do fight but only in play and no one seems to be the dominant one..They can both initiate a bundle..!! and bundle silently until one squeaks and it's all over.
I will call the vet and get Thomas checked out in case it's something physical..but somehow I doubt it, as we've been down this road before..I'm just so sad today as I love them both so much.

Thanks for listening..
Any ides?
S
Thomas & Mouse..
xxx
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bobbys girl
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Re: Oh dear trouble with Thomas alas....

Post by bobbys girl »

Oh Sue, I am so sorry to hear all that. I really hope it doesn't come to the parting of the ways.

Our Purdy sprays when she is stressed or upset about something - usually another cat in 'her' territory. It is SO frustrating isn't it?

We have replaced our carpets with tiles and wooden floors and that has cut the instances of 're-offending', as they don't hold on to the pong the same. I know it sounds extreme, but it is a small house and as we live in the country (and are messy people) the carpets were very hard to keep clean anyway!

I hope someone comes up with a cheaper option.
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Re: Oh dear trouble with Thomas alas....

Post by Marla »

If they snuggle up together, I think they'd miss each other. It's good that you're having Thomas checked by the vet.

When we adopted Teddy and got him neutered, he sprayed only twice but did wee a few times on the carpet. He didn't like the Catsan litter the others were using, so adding 2 trays of Sainsburys clumping litter helped a lot. Then when we were playing with Da-Bird, I accidentally caught his foot and didn't realise it had been cut. So there was a lot of weeing on the carpet until we figured that out. Stepping in cat litter must have hurt so much. :( So it's worth checking his paws just in case it's something like that.

When Teddy comes in from outside or we notice he hasn't wee'd in a while, we'll encourage him to the litter tray and encourage him to go into it, even turn the tap on to make water sounds! It sometimes works and then he gets lots of praise for going in the tray. It seems to be working (knocking on wood).
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Sue Goddard
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Re: Oh dear trouble with Thomas alas....

Post by Sue Goddard »

The funny thing is that Mouse sprays in the garden and Thomas squats and pees in the house..When they are in the garden I think Mouse will turn inside out as he pees so much...It's never ending...!! Thomas pees loads when he squats..I'm always cleaning the trays (they have 2 in the conservatory.) They must have very efficient kidneys.....
I think it may be a territory/stress thing as they have been having more run ins with next doors cats..even coming to serious blows, but they seem OK at play and with me later. (they love the mouse on a stick..!!)
I'm retired so it's just me in the house all day so nice and quite.
I can understand the territory /stress thing but don't understand why he does it during the evening when he is quite relaxed on OH's knee..he'll jump off and go pee on the hall doormat and look you in the eye as he does it...he'll mieow and run off..so he knows it's wrong. The litter tray isn't that far away...

Ah...light bulb moment...!!!!!!

Next doors cat has come into the Conservatory at times as I leave the door open for our 2 to come and go as they please as they are quite incapable of fathoming out the cat flap.. That makes sense. The litter tray is in a position that can be compromised...Will try and find a new place for them...!! See if we get any success.
Keeping the door shut longer now as it's getting quite chilly now. Hope that helps.
I'll still take him to the vet for a check up anyway...I think his teeth need seeing to.

Any ideas why he should pee so much?..It's never a dribble..They are fed wet cat food 1 pouch morning and evening (6am and 8:30pm ) and a few biscuits (Royal Canin )at lunch time (midday) They are always hungry and think that as soon I get up from a chair I'm going to feed tham so they charge off to the kitchen..They have been wormed and flea treated a few weeks ago. But cannot understand why thay are always begging for food..oh and they will steal anything left out in the kitchen..
I had a biscuit with my tea this morning and noted more teeth marks on the Lock and Lock biscuit tin....!!!!!

Oh the joys of Siamese.
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Sue Goddard
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Re: Oh dear trouble with Thomas alas....

Post by Sue Goddard »

Just thought...They poo OK in the tray every morning..I'd have thought that operation was more fraught than peeing in the tray which they both do do.It's the random nature of peeing indoors that's difficult to fathom out. It's almost like a defiant thing?


S
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Sue Goddard
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Re: Oh dear trouble with Thomas alas....

Post by Sue Goddard »

Why I can't put all this in one post God only knows...keep remembering things I want to say.

I have Feliway diffusers in the dining room which leads to the Conservatory and one in our bedroom...so they're not working obviously..!!
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Re: Oh dear trouble with Thomas alas....

Post by Marla »

Teddy was pooing in the tray and weeing on carpet.

How many trays do you have? I'd suggest having at least 3.
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Re: Oh dear trouble with Thomas alas....

Post by meriad »

I was going to suggest the same as Marla - get another tray or two and if you can put one into the bedroom, just to see if that makes a difference. Not ideal I know but if it solves the problem then I'm sure a tray in the bedroom would be preferable to wee all over? ;)

Also, what litter do you use, how often do you clean it and what do you use to clean them? Just wondering if it could be related to that - have you tried a different litter in one of the trays?
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Re: Oh dear trouble with Thomas alas....

Post by Lilith »

Aww, really hope you don't have to part with him!

It could well be the neighbourhood cats stressing him out, but Siamese are such awkward little gits that getting to the errm, bottom of a problem like this is well-nigh impossible. My three-quarter Siamese, the Leopard, sprayed like a tom for fifteen years. She was dominant cat, roamed/had a decent garden/plenty of house-space/ started her habit before the first Siamese breeding queen moved in. I never even planned to bring her home; it was George, her brother, that I chose before I saw the litter, but, before I left, something tapped me on the arm with an imperious paw and, well, I returned home with TWO kittens and a lot of excuses! George was always a perfect gentleman; the Leopard was horrible.

Fast forward to three and a half years ago and my equally horrible Molly, ancestry unknown but conjecture colourful! who was also an unplanned cat...she too was a chronic wee-anywhere merchant (and I STILL haven't cured her of leaving a pile in the bath when the fancy takes her) but I seem to have got through to her by unceasing vigilance. 'USE your tray!' I tell her if she so much as goes near one. And she knows. Often she even does! She's darned intelligent. She TRIES to bully the oldies and I do dominant cat and hiss and send her running, but if I tell her off about climbing curtains etc she just smiles and comes running - 'Who, me?'

At one point, if I suspected her of intending to sin, I'd follow her round, even put fresh litter in the trays (she's very fussy) and never leave her until I got a result...it has cured her of weeing outside the tray - oh and even now when she uses her tray I tell her what a good girl she is (flattery gets you everywhere lol!)

Back to Thomas. As others have said, I'd try extra trays - and also, if he looks like he's going to fire his little water pistol, I'd hover over the little devil till he obliges in the tray - although doubtless he has an extra tank in there which may surprise you. This can get very wearing, but if it saves you from having to part with him it might just pay off.

Your boys are so lovely and I do envy you - wee and all - you must be tearing your hair out over Thomas but you must dread the thought of losing him - do hope you can find a solution, all the very very best x
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Sue Goddard
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Re: Oh dear trouble with Thomas alas....

Post by Sue Goddard »

Yes, it would break our hearts to part with Thomas..we love him dearly. He can be such a darling.

They have Felight litter in their tray and haven't had a problem..(Tescos ) We did try the wood pulp pellets when they were new but that was awful..(smelly etc..i bought it as I thought we could dispose of it in the garden waste bin,for composting by Council. ) So much for being green..!!

I wiil try and take him to the vet on Friday..

What do you think of Diabeties being the culprit?

He has a ridiculous appetite..( so does Mouse ) does drink alot but not excessively I don't think.. he's not lost weight in fact he's getting quite porky as he will finish Mouses dinner if I don't stand in the kitchen and watch them..He is a bit thin in the fur department on his haunches but I have never seen him really over groom. Although they both pull their skin when they groom..Mouse's fur is lovely and fluffy..Thomas looks a bit moth eaten. Yet they both do the same thing.

He has only left one poo inappropriately. (bottom of the stairs..good job no one stepped in it 1st thing in the morning..!!) That was after his contra temp with Sol next door, so understandable.

I think if we make a fuss of Thomas, Mouse gets jealous? Could it be a "dirty protest".

So many things go though your head..

No chance of changing carpets etc as we both hate wood floors (too noisy etc) old fashioned you know.!!
The consevatory has a bamboo floor but with Chinese carpets..The dining room has a Chinese carpet too so his behaviour is a bit of a problem as they are forgiving but won't take too much abuse. (Too pricy to replace..!!_) Luckily I don't think he has abused this carpet very much. (bottom of stairs so far.)
Thomas and Mouse don't seem to have had a cross word between them so can't believe it's sibling rivalry like Bailey and Abby. ( Losing Bailey still makes us cry when we think of him..where did he go?)

S
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Re: Oh dear trouble with Thomas alas....

Post by bobbys girl »

Sue Goddard wrote:No chance of changing carpets etc as we both hate wood floors (too noisy etc) old fashioned you know.!!
Pretty old fashioned myself! But I know what you mean. When we first moved here we lived in a flat with lamiate floors - good grief they were noisy! The old house we live in has concrete floors - so solid. Because of that we put a base down that's like a foam/foil sandwich and the floor is solid wood (not that expensive, actually cheaper than a good carpet) We dress it up with rugs - the bedside ones are machine washable bath mats!

When I think of the 'accidents' that I have had to clean up over the years, not to mention the head-long rush to answer the 'phone while wearing muddy boots, I think our change from carpets to wood/tiles was the best move ever!

Still that's not going to solve your problems in the here and now is it? Your light-bulb moment :idea: seams a good idea. I know Purdy acts up when a stray Tom is in 'her' garden (with us it's the microwave that gets it) I'm not sure what would happen should a stranger use 'her' litter tray :? :shock: It might be something as simple as moving the tray or changing the litter, I really hope so.
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Re: Oh dear trouble with Thomas alas....

Post by Sue Goddard »

Took Thomas to see Rosy the vet last night. She thinks his problem is good old FIC. (Feline idiopathic Cystitis ) although he does more wee than this would suggest....anyway, we have some capsules to give him 2 x once a day for 10 days. ..Cystophan. He had the contents of 2 capsules in his food last night and....well seems like a miracle..No neurotic behaviour this morning..!! He was as quite a a mouse..Came and plonked himself down on my chest at about 6 o'clock (better than 4:30am..!!) and didn't say a word until 6:30..by that time Mouse had put in an appearence.

Thomas seems quite happy this morning..none of the usual antics.
Rosy thought that he was just a "stressy" cat as she didn't think there was any underlying cause that might be suspect. Which is a relief. He does overgroom on his back and Rosy says his tummy is bit too but I hadn't noticed. Stress signs, but he was like that when we got him, and they are certainly is in a less stressful environment now.

At the moment he is sitting in a sunbeam next to me ..he has just chirruped and squeezed his eyes shut..That's a happy cat..so I'm well pleased. Lets hope it continues.

Oh btw..she gave me some crystals to use instead of cat litter so we can get a urine sample (to test sugar levels and infection etc )..That should be a laugh with 2 of them...!! I don't know who pees in which tray..so should be challenging.
Anyone got any experience of using this type of urine collection..??

Thanks again
A much happier Siamese cat mum..
S
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Re: Oh dear trouble with Thomas alas....

Post by Kay »

if it is cystitis there is a very good chance you can keep it at bay by keeping Thomas on a maintenance dose of one of the various cystitis remedies once the symptoms have gone - Cystaid, Cystease and Bladder Nutriment are all more or less interchangeable - and can be bought online for a lot less than the vet charges

I have had my Tiffany on them for years now, one a day because she's a big girl, and if I see any signs the cystitis is back I up the dose for a week and that has always done the trick
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Re: Oh dear trouble with Thomas alas....

Post by Lilith »

Aww Sue, sorry to hear he's got cystitis but if such a small thing as medication brings about this improvement, this is great!

Hope this continues now, bless him :D
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Re: Oh dear trouble with Thomas alas....

Post by bobbys girl »

Well that sounds promising. I hope you have found the cause and it can be sorted.
Sue Goddard wrote:Oh btw..she gave me some crystals to use instead of cat litter so we can get a urine sample (to test sugar levels and infection etc )..That should be a laugh with 2 of them...!! I don't know who pees in which tray..so should be challenging.
Anyone got any experience of using this type of urine collection..??
Good luck with that one!! They gave us some of those for Thomas. We STILL haven't used them - 5 cats, 2 trays. :?
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Re: Oh dear trouble with Thomas alas....

Post by Crewella »

My Daz had a dreadful year of cystitis and blockages that we now keep at bay with a maintenance Cystophan dose and adding a little water to his diet. It's now two years since his last bout, but I'm sticking with the Cystophan, thank you very much!

I hope that the improvement continues. xx

ADDED: Same as above, with five cats I had no hope of using the crystals to collect pee!
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Sue Goddard
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Re: Oh dear trouble with Thomas alas....

Post by Sue Goddard »

Thanks for all your encouraging replies....Very heartened that Thomas can be sorted out now..

Day 2 of his treatment and again he is being a very happy cat..much more relaxed.I suppose if the irritation and urge to pee goes he can relax more. No different if humans get cystitis.. (I know ..used to get it when I was younger and it drives you insane..!!!)
I don't think getting a urine sample is viable...vet said they could take him in for the day and get one so think that may be the best way.

Mind you we still watch him like a hawk in the bedroom when he jumps off the bed and is out of eyesight...but so far he hasn't been inclinded to pee in his usual spots..The bedroom is beginning to smell better..! ( A large Bissell carpet cleaner is a must..) We spent Saturday on our hands and knees cleaning the hall carpet and Thomas seems to be keeping away...rubber backed Turtle mats are useful too. Washable.

Must close as Mouse has jumped onto my knee and wants some headbutts and kisses.(his nickname is now "fluffy pants" )

Thomas is chillin'

Oh bliss..silent Siamese.. I can't see it lasting.

S
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Re: Oh dear trouble with Thomas alas....

Post by Crewella »

As quoted from their website, Cystophan:

"... also contains L-tryptophan which is used in the brain to make serotonin, the happy hormone."

Which helps them to deal with stress.
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Re: Oh dear trouble with Thomas alas....

Post by Sue Goddard »

Bother, we've had a relapse......

Thomas has wee'd on the front door mat and at the bottom of the stairs...
Not as much wee as previous so I suppose that's something..Have ordered some Kylkene (?) I shall give them both a tablet once a day and see how we go..

Maybe I should confine Thomas to barracks as possibly the garden is his nemesis? Mouse is OK with the garden but is a bit of a coward where next doors cats are concerned. (runs away..Thomas turns and confronts) I don't know much about their prior life but Thomas may have been the house cat and Mouse spent all his time outdoors..Any clues there?. They both seem to love the garden.

Do you think that the Cystophan might be better dosed in the morning or night..At present he has 2 capsules at night..What about One morning and one night..hmmm may have to ask the vet ? unless anyone has experience with this dosage.
He's being such a darling it's heartbreaking to think he may be stressed and bothered by something.
The house is lovely and quite during the day and they curl up together in their basket and sleep soundly..So it'd difficult to see anything stressful..There's usually a flurry of activity when OH come home but cats usually just give him the lowdown on what's been happening during the day..they then settle down again.

Possibly another light bulb moment.....!! Now I think about it..Thomas seems to pee when OH at home..Could a man have mistreated him in his other life?.Could there be something there? No, can't be as Thomas spends the evening sprawled out on OH's legs.
It's a mystery alright.

S
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Re: Oh dear trouble with Thomas alas....

Post by meriad »

it could very well be the aftershave or deodorant your OH is using... you'd be surprised what could set cats off
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Re: Oh dear trouble with Thomas alas....

Post by nannymcfee »

Do you think the neighbours cats have come round to that door now and maybe marked it, so Thomas can smell them, even if we cannot.

Daughter has a little cat that pee's so much, you would think he was elephant size, he too piddles in the bath, in the sink, on clean washing, in fact anywhere he could,
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Sue Goddard
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Re: Oh dear trouble with Thomas alas....

Post by Sue Goddard »

Thomas has been exemplary the last week..He's been nice and calm and the noisy neurosis in the mornings seems to have disappeared..Mouse is more laid back too...not that I want two comatosed cats you understand but the constant mieowing was getting to be an ear ache..(We've had Siamese for 30 years so know all about thier voiceboxes..!!) but these two were in a league of their own...Thomas used to pace about the place which set off Mouse too, and now he is content to snooze in the conservatory, and become a much more loving cat..thankfully. The are absolute darlings and we love them to bits.
They play just as actively and are interested in what we are doing so I know that they aren't "drugged up".
I called Rosy the vet and told her I was unable to get a urine sample..so she said leave it..They could take him in to get a sample but that would stress him..so as he is doing well that's on a back burner for now.
btw: I was clearing up and obviously hadn't closed the bag of little silicon beads and they have gone everywhere..!! Bother will have to get the vac out now.. I bet I'll be picking them up for weeks.!

Rosy says he can go on a maintenance dose now so 1 a day of Cystophan..hopefully not for long.The vet charges a fortune so will get online after this lot.

I have bought a dispenser for biscuits and after gorging themeselves for a couple of days (Royal Canin demand control ) they now just browse a few at a time..and aren't clamouring for food 24/7 so that's a bonus too. They were eating a pouch of food quicker than Usain Bolt could do the 100 metres..!!!

Hopefully Thomas will go from strength to strength and become the gorgeous pussycat we know he is..

Oh, another little aside: Most of my cats when picked up seem to know that they need to tuck their back legs up for you to hold..these two just dangle..!! they don't seem to know what to do with their legs... really weird.
Could it be that they haven't been picked up and cuddled much?? They don't struggle just dangle.....

Thanks for all your feedback..much appreciated. There's so much good advice from you lot.

S
Thomas and Mouse.
xxx
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Re: Oh dear trouble with Thomas alas....

Post by Lilith »

Bless him! All paws crossed that he's turned the corner now and that the situation's settled for the better.

Lol - regarding the 'dangling' - I once read an article by a guy who lived with a Burmese, and she was the same. Apparently she told him that she lived in her front end, didn't she, and it was up to him to take care of the back end ... :lol:
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Re: Oh dear trouble with Thomas alas....

Post by Crewella »

My Daz (just a laid-back mixed mog and ex-stray) is a dangler. When you go to pick him up, especially if you grab him around the ribs behind his front legs, there's this weird moment as you lift where he seems to get longer and longer before his back paws finally leave the ground!

So glad Thomas seems to be settling. :)
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