Frequent diarrhoea issues

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destinyscheeks
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Frequent diarrhoea issues

Post by destinyscheeks » Tue Oct 27, 2015 4:24 am

I took King Tobias to the vets last week because I came back home and noticed blood on his throw. When I looked at his bottom there was blood so I assumed he had used the litter box, bled whilst pooping then sat on his throw - I assumed the worst and as he is FIV+ I took him to the vets later that day.

The vets did all the nec tests and said they couldnt find anything wrong (and his temperature was good). I then mentioned his runny poops and they said this was a concern because cats shouldnt have it as often as he does - once a month is fine but anything more then that should be a cause for concern and he has it a few times a week :o

After leaving the vets, he was put on a prescribed diet for four days eating Hils Prescription pouches. His poops were solid so I thought he was on the mend but today I fed him what Ive been feeding him since I rehomed him (in Sept): Bozita Chicken and turkey and yesterday I fed him Animonda Carny for the first time and again he had diarrhoea (and today it was explosive).

He is acting normal and has a good appetite and this gourmet food is high in meat content so Im not sure whats going on? He doesn't drink much water but he mainly eats wet food which is high in moisture so I feel a bit lost. Dont really want to have to keep going back to the vets and paying £30 when its not a very very serious matter

Edit: He is an indoor cat

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Re: Frequent diarrhoea issues

Post by Crewella » Tue Oct 27, 2015 7:13 am

It can be such a worry when they have sensitive tums. Personally, I would be guided by what he does and doesn't react to and stick to feeding him those that don't cause an upset. If you need to keep him permanently on a prescription or sensitive diet then so be it, it's cheaper than frequent visits to the vet! My Pugwash could only eat RC Gastro Intestinal - anything else came out runny and yellow (sorry TMI!).

Maybe try not to change his diet too often, or introduce any changes slowly? I wish him better. xx

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Re: Frequent diarrhoea issues

Post by booktigger » Tue Oct 27, 2015 8:08 am

Sometimes food high on meat content can be too rich for them so maybe changing to something less rich might help

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Re: Frequent diarrhoea issues

Post by lilynmitz » Tue Oct 27, 2015 1:03 pm

I would keep him on the new diet as well. And this really isn't the time to start trying him on lots of new stuff. I had Elsie on about four different foods at once not long ago and her gut told me just what she thought of that! The vet pulled a face at me and told me to simplify her diet :-D! I had her on boiled fish for a few days and it soon sorted her out, then kept her on just one good quality dry food and one pouch of Felix a day, and she's been fine since.

But if there is something irritating Tobias's gut, it can take a long time to settle down, particularly given his FIV. Think yourself lucky though, I had two of mine on fresh venison for months before we got regular solids in the tray! The vet said some protein in their diet was irritating their gut, and I had to keep them on the venison for that long before they could tolerate anything else. Then I very gradually switched them over to Hills Sensitive, then after many many months they were ok on Hill regular, but I always kept some venison in the freezer just in case of a relapse!

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Re: Frequent diarrhoea issues

Post by destinyscheeks » Thu Oct 29, 2015 4:21 am

Thanks guys. Ive spoken with the vets and I will put him back on a subscription diet for a few weeks.

Ive just been so focused on trying to give him the best foods but your right - sometimes food high on meat content can be too rich - and its clearly upsetting his stomach so I need to do something to fix that.

I will also consider feeding him what CP fed him before I drastically changed his diet after rehoming him. But this time I will be a bit more patient and introduce the changes slowly haha.

Learning so much now and I have you guys to thank for that!

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Re: Frequent diarrhoea issues

Post by destinyscheeks » Tue Dec 08, 2015 8:15 pm

So far, Hills Prescription has been the best for his stomach - but its a bit pricey for me to maintain him on this so I decided to try the Bozita Feline Tetra Pak - Diet & Stomach Sensitive. After a week of weaning him into it, it appears that this isnt good for him either - the diarrhoea is back! Pfffff

I really want my King to have the best in life but it clearly doesnt sit well with his sensitive tummy.

Does anyone know of any quality brands (similar to Bozita) that are catered for sensitive stomachs?

Im going to try and give him what CP fed him even though its going to break my heart giving him such rubbish food lol

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Re: Frequent diarrhoea issues

Post by MarkB » Tue Dec 08, 2015 9:27 pm

My Kylie has a sensitive system which developed over the last couple of years. We nearly lost her a couple of months ago as she was wasting away. Anyway, surprisingly, the best wet food I have found for her is supermarket own brand in gravy. Oddly. most foods in gravy contain cereals, but this doesn't. I have no proof, but it appears that Co-op, Tesco, Sainsbury's and maybe others, own brand pouches in gravy. They don't contain any cereal or any other additives. I think Tesco are the cheapest (and they do a senior version as well as adult) Kylie loves it. Also Co-op own brand pates in foil trays.

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Re: Frequent diarrhoea issues

Post by destinyscheeks » Tue Dec 08, 2015 10:11 pm

MarkB wrote:My Kylie has a sensitive system which developed over the last couple of years. We nearly lost her a couple of months ago as she was wasting away. Anyway, surprisingly, the best wet food I have found for her is supermarket own brand in gravy. Oddly. most foods in gravy contain cereals, but this doesn't. I have no proof, but it appears that Co-op, Tesco, Sainsbury's and maybe others, own brand pouches in gravy. They don't contain any cereal or any other additives. I think Tesco are the cheapest (and they do a senior version as well as adult) Kylie loves it. Also Co-op own brand pates in foil trays.
Thanks for your reply MarkB! Do you have a url/weblink to the food that you feed Kylie?

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Re: Frequent diarrhoea issues

Post by MarkB » Tue Dec 08, 2015 11:56 pm

http://www.tesco.com/groceries/product/ ... lsrc=aw.ds

This is the link for the Tesco version. It is packaed for Asda (Tiger), Co-op own brand and I am sure, others.The best thing to do is check the box as they all say 'Made in Ireland' or /Made in The Republic of Ireland'

If you are looking for dry food, Purina One sensitive is a good bet. They use rice instead of wheat in the sensitive version. Zooplus is the cheapest place to buy it, although Sainsbury's have the 3kg bags on offer for £11 at the moment.

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Re: Frequent diarrhoea issues

Post by destinyscheeks » Wed Dec 09, 2015 7:44 am

Thanks.... But this has 4% meat content :cry:

Ive done a bit more research and Im going to try Grau Gourmet; high quality cat food but ideal for cats with grain allergies/sensitive digestive systems. Some of them are really expensive but some of them are great value for money and after working out the maths/longevity of the food, if King Tobias Warrior takes the smaller packs Ive bought (after I wean him into it over 7-10 days), I can purchase the saver packs which will last anywhere from 24-48 days!

*Keeping my fingers x'd*

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Re: Frequent diarrhoea issues

Post by MarkB » Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:50 am

The 4% thing is a common misconception. All it means is that by law, pet food must contain at least 4% of the NAMED FLAVOUR. There will always be more than that. In the case of those pouches, given that they don't contain any cereals, the other 96% has to be meat and meat byproducts - usually things like lungs and other offcuts - which are better than muscle meat in many ways as they are lower in fat etc.

Anyway, it was just passing on what worked for us. The fact that it is cheap, was just a bonus. We can and will buy the best for our cats, but they usually turn their nose up at the expensive brands,

Good luck.

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Re: Frequent diarrhoea issues

Post by destinyscheeks » Thu Dec 10, 2015 3:36 am

MarkB wrote:The 4% thing is a common misconception. All it means is that by law, pet food must contain at least 4% of the NAMED FLAVOUR. There will always be more than that. In the case of those pouches, given that they don't contain any cereals, the other 96% has to be meat and meat byproducts - usually things like lungs and other offcuts - which are better than muscle meat in many ways as they are lower in fat etc.

Anyway, it was just passing on what worked for us. The fact that it is cheap, was just a bonus. We can and will buy the best for our cats, but they usually turn their nose up at the expensive brands,

Good luck.
Firstly I just want to say thanks. I really do appreciate the info (hope I didnt sound like I didnt?! :? ) It is something I could actually consider feeding my King when Im on a budget/continue to vary his diet.

Secondly, regarding the 4% thing - for me that doesnt make much sense. Let me explain:

A person who is watching their diet, lets say their fat intake, would look at the back of the packaging to see the fat %.
So the same should apply to cat food.

I dont want to go off topic but for me it doesnt make much sense for food to state there is only 4% if there is actually more. I would rather look at the back of the packaging and see exactly how much % there is in meat (as well as suger, offals etc).

Before joining this site, I did about a months worth of research into various things - one inclu. a cats diet of course haha! I honestly dont recall coming across any info that supports your above statement - but I am open to reading more about this if you have a link/url?

Many thanks

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Re: Frequent diarrhoea issues

Post by Camdengirl » Thu Dec 10, 2015 10:21 am

destinyscheeks wrote:Secondly, regarding the 4% thing - for me that doesnt make much sense. Let me explain:

A person who is watching their diet, lets say their fat intake, would look at the back of the packaging to see the fat %.
So the same should apply to cat food.
Hi...with regard to the above, you're comparing two different things – ingredients and nutritional breakdown. 'Fat' isn't an ingredient, and cat foods do provide a separate breakdown of % fat, protein etc. The only ingredients in the Tesco food named above are 'Meat and animal derivatives, minerals, various sugars'. Ingredients are listed by weight or volume, so meat/animal derivatives must be the greatest of those. If they really were only 4%, the sum of all three ingredients wouldn't even reach 15%, when mathematically they must add up to 100%...

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Re: Frequent diarrhoea issues

Post by MarkB » Thu Dec 10, 2015 7:42 pm

The PFMA has various fact sheets. This one explains some of it http://www.pfma.org.uk/_assets/docs/fac ... dients.pdf

There is some other info on there http://www.pfma.org.uk/pet-food-facts although pet food isn't as strictly regulated as human food, there are basic requirements they have to stick to.

Having said that, one thing they claim, that cereals in catfood provide important energy for pets. Cats especially, need very few carbs, if any, as they get their energy from fat and proteins. Another thingto bear in mind is that protein % can also be misleading if food contains cereals, rice etc, is that although there might be protein in it, protein from vegetables isn't as bioavailable as protein from meat.

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Re: Frequent diarrhoea issues

Post by Crewella » Thu Dec 10, 2015 11:07 pm

Just to say, Mark is absolutely correct - the 4% just refers to the named flavour, which they are required to state.

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Re: Frequent diarrhoea issues

Post by destinyscheeks » Thu Dec 10, 2015 11:09 pm

Cheers guys!

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Re: Frequent diarrhoea issues

Post by MarkB » Fri Dec 11, 2015 10:30 am

Just to add that if diarrhea is caused by an intolerence to a certain protein, is is sometimes difficult to pin down the cause. The main offenders seem to be wheat, dairy of fish. Foods that just state 'meat and byproducts' might help, but you don't know which meats have been used in them. In that case, foods with a single protein source will only give the answers. It can be a long battle. One of our previous cats, Alice (In my avatar, who we lost to kidney disease 2 years tomorrow) had bloody diarrhea for a couple of years. We tried various hypoallergenic foods from the vet, but the problem was that she refused to eat them. In the end, the vet wondered if it could be the effect of long-term malnutrition from when she was living as a stray. I decided to bite the bullet and start on an elimination diet, starting by eliminating obvious possible culprits. I started with wheat and decided to feed her basic Felix in jelly pouches + Purina One sensitive (contains rice, rather than wheat) and almost overnight, the diarrhea improved dramatically. We were still having the odd flare-up. I realised it was after she had anything with dairy in. Although I didn't give her milk, she would occasionally lick some butter off of my toast or lick some cream off plate. I tried giving her cat milk and she still had a violent reaction to it (she would throw up within a couple of minutes, followed by diarrhea) I did some research and found out that it isn't just lactose that cats can have a problem with, it can also be milk proteins - which must have been the case with Alice. She was never 100%, but she never had any more bloody diarrhea. It can be a long battle.
Last edited by MarkB on Fri Dec 11, 2015 8:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Frequent diarrhoea issues

Post by Camdengirl » Fri Dec 11, 2015 4:51 pm

Just to add to Mark's comments, I used to have an FIV lad who had terribly sensitive skin, and it took me a long time to find foods he could tolerate – he reacted to wheat, dairy AND fish! He did well on chicken and turkey-based foods. Later on, he abruptly stopped tolerating dry foods of any description, they started giving him diarrhoea. After a lot of tests and different prescription foods, someone suggested feeding just wet food, which solved the problem overnight. So if Tobias isn't a biscuit addict that's another option that might be worth a try.

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Re: Frequent diarrhoea issues

Post by destinyscheeks » Sat Dec 12, 2015 4:42 am

You guys are so amazing! Thank you so much for your responses, I really appreciate it!

I should probably go down the route of eliminating certain foods but what I know for certain is that King Tobias Warrior has diarrhoea when fed Bozita and Animonda - CP were feeding him Felix/Whiskers pouches and Purina buscuits so I may decide to feed him that again but I have recently purchased Grau so will see how his belly reacts towards that.

Hills prescription has been a God send so this is his main source of food but I would like to vary his diet somewhat.

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Re: Frequent diarrhoea issues

Post by destinyscheeks » Sat Dec 12, 2015 4:46 am

When I fed him Smilla (high content in fish), he had a very bad reaction to it so I don't give him fish at all.

Im thinking it could be the fact that both Bozita and Animonda are high in meat but cats are carnivores so.....

Looks like I have a long road ahead of me :lol:

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Re: Frequent diarrhoea issues

Post by Camdengirl » Sat Dec 12, 2015 9:25 am

Clay reacted very badly to fish as well, the first (and last) time I fed him tuna he was ripping at his mouth with his claws within 20 minutes :( Interestingly, though he was fine on some foods containing fish oil...

Unfortunately some cats react to a specific meat, Clay couldn't have anything with a mix of meats as he just couldn't tolerate them all. I don't know what it was he reacted to, although apparently the most common meat allergens for cats are lamb and beef. Clay was fine with poultry and little bits of beef (which used to be in some of the HiLife pouches) and ham (from Feline Fayre chicken breast with ham in jelly).

Foods with all named ingredients containing poultry but no other meat (and no cereals) would probably be a good place to start if your lad will eat them, they are at the low-risk end for allergens. Hopefully you will be able to work out what the problem is, but it may take a while. Good luck!

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Re: Frequent diarrhoea issues

Post by destinyscheeks » Tue Dec 15, 2015 3:30 pm

The foods he's eaten before was chicken with no mix. Ive looked at the ingredients on the food that gave him diarrhoea to see if there was a common denominator but I cant see any aside from the fact that they are very high % in meat lol.

Id love to know from everyone:

When you are transitioning your cat onto a new food, how do you do it? Some info Ive come across state 25% of the new food with 75% of the old food then increase the new food/decrease the old food over a period of 7-10 days: but would this be 25/75% of the recommended daily amount for each?
At the moment King Tobias Warrior is eating Hills Prescription in both wet and dry. I feed him 1 can/35g dry daily but I recently got Grau wet food and the feeding recommendation is 200g so Im thinking I should give him 3/4 of 1 can of Hills and 1/4 (50g) of Grau but im not sure if this is correct.

And as there is going to be some left over from the tin, would you freeze the rest of the food or just leave it in the fridge?
Some say its not good to freeze cat food because it impairs the taste but I wouldn't want to leave cat food in the fridge for more then 24 hours in fear it goes off.

Also, do you do the transition process for new foods/brands only or would u do this transition when you are trying out a different flavour in the same brand?

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Re: Frequent diarrhoea issues

Post by Crewella » Tue Dec 15, 2015 4:34 pm

To be honest, I never go by the manufacturer's 'recommended daily amount' as it almost always works out as far too much!! It is, after all, in their interests to sell as much of it as possible - if I fed my lot the RDA I'd have a houseful of little footballs with legs as they're mostly ex-strays and will habitually eat all they can!

I mix foods a lot with my gang so I don't worry too much, but with a new cat or one with sensitivities I introduce new foods over the course of a week, mixing a little more new food into a little less of their regular food every day (so they get the same amount overall) unless I see problems. With (currently) 8 cats I rarely have to keep food, but if I do I decant it into tupperware and put it in the fridge, making sure to take it out in time to let it warm up a bit before I feed it. It's not good to leave food in opened tins, though with pouches I will just fold over the top and keep it like that in the fridge until the next meal (12 hours ...ish).

I don't usually worry transitioning between flavours, but with a sensitive cat it might be a concern, especially switching from meat to fish flavours as fish can be a problem with some cats.

I hope that helps.

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Re: Frequent diarrhoea issues

Post by Cussypat1974 » Wed Dec 16, 2015 2:33 pm

why did you switch diets so soon? and to something untried? hills is extortionate I know, but plain boiled chicken breast for a week can do wonders, so long as you do it all GRADUALLY. This cat needs a plain diet for a decent amount of time (at least a week) to see if the problem is food related. if plain chicken or Hills doesnt work then further investigations will be needed.

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Re: Frequent diarrhoea issues

Post by Cussypat1974 » Wed Dec 16, 2015 2:35 pm

transitioning healthy animals is one thing. a clinically ill patient needs more care. i feed whatever is on special, but if anyone is sick they get chicken breast!

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Re: Frequent diarrhoea issues

Post by destinyscheeks » Wed Dec 16, 2015 3:25 pm

@Crewella

WOW, very interesting! I too have felt that I was feeding KTW too much but the vet recommended following the RDA :roll: As you have been a cat owner for so long, what would you do if u were transitioning one of your cats onto a new tinned product? The one I have is 200g each (which is the RDA lol). 100g would be too much so giving him smaller amounts would result in leftovers for a few days. Just like yourself, I wouldnt leave it in the tin - so would you freeze the rest until your cats have finished the tin?

And as you dont go by the RDA, how do you go about deciding how much is a good amount for them?

@ Cussypat1974
I changed his diet because I want my cat to have the very best in life - you are what you eat :lol: . As KTW is my first cat ever, I was unaware about this food transition process, hence the reason I did it drastically when I first rehomed him. But clearly I know better now haha. Yes he is FIV+ but I wouldnt say this = clinically ill. Im not sure if a weakened immune system means = being clinically ill???

And just to clarify, He isnt sick - he is very active and behaves like a normal cat - Im just having issues feeding him good quality food that doesnt upset his stomach in the process lol

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Re: Frequent diarrhoea issues

Post by Crewella » Wed Dec 16, 2015 5:21 pm

I confess I don't measure exactly, but my oldies get about 50g of wet food and a handful of dry twice a day - that's fine for them as they mostly sleep so don't burn off much. Any more and I start to notice them getting pudgy - and that's really how I work it out, by trial and error. All cats are different - different sizes, builds, ages and energy levels, so I just increase or decrease their consumption according to how they're doing on what they're currently getting. Something like this should help you determine if he's a good weight:

http://www.oxleyhighwayvet.com/Portals/ ... -chart.jpg

I'm happy with cat food (in tupperware) in the fridge for a day or two, any longer and yes I'd freeze it (if I didn't have an army of walking dustbins living here!). Make sure to to defrost properly or warm it if it's just out of the fridge. 10 seconds in the microwave usually helps if I've forgotten to leave it out in advance!

I agree with Catherine, plain chicken breast for a few days does wonders for upset tums, or plain boiled white fish if he's OK with fish (but is not a complete/balanced diet so is not a long-term solution in itself).

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Re: Frequent diarrhoea issues

Post by destinyscheeks » Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:45 pm

Crewella wrote:I confess I don't measure exactly, but my oldies get about 50g of wet food and a handful of dry twice a day - that's fine for them as they mostly sleep so don't burn off much. Any more and I start to notice them getting pudgy - and that's really how I work it out, by trial and error. All cats are different - different sizes, builds, ages and energy levels, so I just increase or decrease their consumption according to how they're doing on what they're currently getting. Something like this should help you determine if he's a good weight:

http://www.oxleyhighwayvet.com/Portals/ ... -chart.jpg
Interesting..... Are all your cats indoors or are some outdoors? Reason I ask is that Im assuming you would feed an outdoor cat more then an indoor cat?
Crewella wrote:I'm happy with cat food (in tupperware) in the fridge for a day or two, any longer and yes I'd freeze it (if I didn't have an army of walking dustbins living here!). Make sure to to defrost properly or warm it if it's just out of the fridge. 10 seconds in the microwave usually helps if I've forgotten to leave it out in advance!
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Crewella wrote:I agree with Catherine, plain chicken breast for a few days does wonders for upset tums, or plain boiled white fish if he's OK with fish (but is not a complete/balanced diet so is not a long-term solution in itself).
Should the chicken breast be cooked or uncooked?
Can the same apply with chicken wings or should it specially should be breast only?
He is 1 years old and 4.2kg - Im kinda a bit anal when it comes to his food, I measure everything haha! Any suggestions on how much I should give him a day?

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Re: Frequent diarrhoea issues

Post by destinyscheeks » Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:54 pm

Thanks for the link btw. Ironically I came across the same pic but on a different website 2 days ago. He is defo an ideal weight and when I took him to the vets a few weeks ago they said he was a good weight, teeth were good etc.

I guess I just need to keep an eye on him to see if he puts on/looses weight and use my own judgement. For now though, I will continue to use the RDA until I feel a bit more confident doing this :lol:

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Re: Frequent diarrhoea issues

Post by Crewella » Wed Dec 16, 2015 11:22 pm

I live in a rural area with a big garden surrounded by fields but a very busy main road nearby. For that reason I lock everybody in at night so they never get used to the road when it's quiet - by day it's so busy, and noisy, that they're unlikely to go near it. It also helps the local wildlife to have the cats locked in at dawn. In the summer most of my gang are out for most of the day, but in the winter only my two dedicated hunters are still spending much time outdoors.

My Daz is 7 and a big, chunky 5.5kg cat - a late-neutered tom that was a stray for the first years of his life, and I suspect he could still pretty much cater for himself if necessary. He hunts every day and eats what he catches, including bunnies, squirrels, pigeons - he even came home a blooming pheasant a few weeks back, as well as mice and rats, but I have to keep a close eye on his weight as he is prone to urinary problems. He actually gets the same amount as the oldies, 50g of wet food and a handful of prescription urinary dry food (reduced calorie) twice a day. He uses a lot of energy hunting, so overall we seem to have found a balance. Touch wood!

Merrick is the other outdoorsy cat, and yes I do give him a little more than the others, although he too is eating much of what he brings home. Actually, most of them do have a snack on Daz's kills from time to time. I worm them all more often than I did before we moved here because of that.

I feed chicken wings raw at it's good for their teeth - never give cats cooked bones as they go brittle and can splinter. The chicken breasts I just boil (or occasionally steam) in water - any chicken meat would probably do but it's just easier to get breast fillets, and the meat is drier and less fatty. It's just the meat you want, no fat or skin, when you're trying to calm their digestive system.

Sorry, I seem to have given you my life story here!!!!! :oops:

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