Please help - cat with respiratory distress at our vet

[hollihedge]

Dear all
Could anyone offer any advice please? We took our Tortie, Pumpkin, to the vet last night as we have been concerned she is drinking more (she is fine in every other way). She has visited the vets for her boosters every year and for check-ups (never seen this vet or nurse though) and has been fine. However, they have never done bloods. With her symptoms they correctly advised they would need to take some bloods. She was taken off into the next consulting room for the nurse (who I didn't care for TBH) to undertake this. We awaited in reception. The next thing we know there are major panic stations and everyone flying everywhere. The nurse appeared briefly and shouted at us from the room if Pumpkin had ever had "hacking breathing". We answered she had not. No-one would tell us what was going on for about 45 minutes but I could see the vet rushing in and out. I asked to go in and be able to calm her and was not allowed to. Eventually, the vet asked us to go back into the consulting room and Pumpkin was lying as quiet as a mouse in her carrier. Apparently, she had "panicked" and tried to bite (which she can do) whilst they were trying to take the blood (she has very thick fur and there is none missing, but her collar was completely skewiff) and then had "respitarory distress" with fluid coming from her nostrils. They had given her Furosemide (a diuretic) and have told her there is no way they could take bloods without sedation and she will have to go back back next week.

I am extremely concerned as to what went on. I think that in trying to restrain her to take the bloods they have pushed too hard on her neck to hold her to take the blood from her bib area and have almost strangled her. She is a feisty girl and would not panic for this reason (she would, however, definitely try and bite).

Thus, we now have a very subdued and frankly unwell looking little girl and she has had nothing done!! He has told us the Furosemide should wear off in 24 hours but if we are concerned we should take her back.

Has anyone experienced this before with cats having blood tests? Also, is it not complete overkill to sedate a cat to have a blood test? I am worried that leaving her there for the entire day next week to have the bloods done will make her even worse and I am considering finding a new vet, although there is a dearth of even adequate vets in the area we live.

Any advice much appreciated as we are worried sick!!
Many thanks everyone.

[Lilith]

Arrgghh! This sort of thing really annoys me! I'm not surprised you're upset (well, 'upset' is putting it mildly, eh?)

In the past I've had vets/nurses refuse to let me stay with the cat while bloods were being done, and though I've been cross, I've had to trust to their 'judgment'. On one occasion I even heard the cat yelling angrily. I don't think that would have happened if I'd been there to reassure her. I've never seen the reaction Pumpkin has had, but I do know that a deeply distressed and angry cat can start huffing and snorting as if it has severe asthma, and wonder if this is what they're calling 'respiratory distress'.

It sounds as if poor Pumpkin's now in deep shock, rather than having anything the matter with her respiratory system.

I'm sorry to say that I think the vet and nurse sound extremely incompetent and that, if you went back there, it might be as well to arrange to see another vet and nurse; it's quite in order to do this, like having the right to see a GP you prefer. If you're happy with naming the area you live in, someone on here might be able to advise you of a better vet in that area.

It is normal, though, to sedate an animal even for a simple procedure if it's going to distress the animal; it would have been better if they had realised this at the start.

Bit of a rant here, but I do wish that some vets/nurses would work WITH the owner rather than shut them out! The 'we know best' approach is NOT always right, and we're not necessarily going to faint at the sight of a needle or blood, and we know our animals best, and how to calm them best!

The last time I was told to 'leave the room', I refused. My old tomcat, Finn, was being pts, and they couldn't raise a vein in his forepaw, he was that doddery, poor old lad, so they sedated him and said they'd inject into his heart, and that it would be 'inappropriate' for me to 'watch'. Now I have a very good relationship with my local vet's, and trust them entirely, I'd seen this lass before, but the way she carried on, I thought she'd have to crunch through a rib or two! I said I was staying - and the injection was nothing - just like an ordinary injection. I'm always glad I stayed with him, even though he was unconscious.

Having said that, I did once have to act as 'nurse' to a great vet who treated a haematoma at the site of a stomach op. It was a tiny surgery with a vet and nurse visiting from the main surgery; this day he had no nurse - and George (the cat) lay and purred on the table while I held him and the vet inserted a hair-thin needle into his swollen abdomen and gently expressed a load of stuff like weak Ribena...but this was way back in the 80s when owners were expected to take on part of the nursing. Nowadays George would be in for the day, sedated and all the rest of it!

So...you're back to square one. I think you'll need to give Pumpkin a bit of time to get over this - say a week or two, and, whichever vet you take her to, make it very clear that you don't want the same pantomime occurring! Personally I think sedation might be best for her, especially after her horrible experience; she won't know what's going on after that, and the visit will be calmer.

So very sorry to read of this...some 'experts' eh? I do hope you get her back for a better visit to a better vet, and also that the bloods test negative.

Sorry for the long post, with all very best wishes to you and Pumpkin; hope you both feel better soon, give her a love from me x

[meriad]

Gosh that sounds like a horrendous experience; poor you and poor Pumpkin

In the first instance I'd probably call the practice and see if you can speak to the vet that usually sees Pumpkin and ask his opinion and make sure that whenever the next bloods are to be taken he is there.

There are cats that do need some form of sedation for bloods so yes - that does sound totally plausible, but I'm sure there is something they could give you to give to her at home before you take her in, just to space her out a bit which would mean not having to leave her there the whole day

Try speak to your "regular" vet and get a second opinion

[booktigger]

I've had some really awkward cats but never needed one being sedated for bloods, instead mine use a local anaesthetic gel called Em la, needs to be put on 20 mins before bloods so you do have to wait but works well.

[lilynmitz]

What an awful experience for you both. I would have been horrified if I'd seen such incompetence from a vet to the point that any cat ended up in this state, and I certainly wouldn't have been going back again. Yes, some cats do react badly to vet handling, but in this case it sounds like gross MIS-handling for this to have been the end result.

At the very least, speak to the senior vet at the practice and request that he does the sedation and blood tests, with you present. My vet has always allowed me to be present at simple procedures like these (including all my euthanasias), and it can often calm the cat, having someone they know there (assuming you remain calm as well of course!). And taking blood is very simple, and usually requires shaving off some fur to find the vein. If they didn't even do this, particularly if Pumpkin has a thick coat, I'm not surprised that they, and your puss, struggled so much, and no wonder the poor girl is traumatised by it.

If you can't get that reassurance, then ask around and get recommendations for a better and more experienced vet in your area. This outcome shouldn't have happened for such a simple procedure, and serious questions should be asked of your vet as to why this happened, and what assurance you can have that it doesn't happen again.

[Crewella]

That sounds like a dreadful experience, for you both, and they not only managed to mis-handle the cat but they didn't do too well with you either, did they? Things can go wrong with the best of vets - what matters is how then handle the problem, and yours just made matters worse. There's little point in going back to see a vet you have no faith in - you won't trust what they say whatever happens.

As you mention a dearth of vets in your area, I would call the vets and have an honest chat with them - explaining how you feel in pretty much the same way that you have to us. They may have another vet there that specialises in, or at least has an affinity with, cats that you could see next time. If you get nowhere with that 'phone call, then it sadly does sound like time to find a new vet as your concerns are hardly unreasonable. I have heard of sedation for a blood test, not often but it can happen. Good luck!

[hollihedge]

Many thanks for all of your helpful replies and knowledge. Pumpkin is a little better now and was enthusiastically tucking into salmon at the weekend! I am struggling to find recommendation of a good vet that is near where we live, which is Walsall/Wednesbury in the West Midlands. Any advice in regard to good vets in that area gratefully received.

[Lilith]

So glad Pumpkin's beginning to feel better and hope you are too.

Hope you find a satisfactory vet, paws crossed for her future vet care

[alanc]

Only Vet I know in that area is Willows at Monkspath, Solihull, just off Junction 4 of the M42, but that might be a bit far away from you. They did a fantastic repair job on Tilly's back leg 2.5 years ago after she broke a tarsal bone. I was referred to them by my Vet.

[Cussypat1974]

caveat: i amstudying t be a vet nurse!
I also have cats including ferals, and have dealt with good and bad vets over the years. the reson owners are often asked to step out of the room is not so we can abuse or traumatise your animal. it is not even because the animal will be more or less traumatised by your presence. it is simply because the owner VERY OFTEN makes the job more difficult, makes it take longer and makes it harder on the animal. this is not the case with every owner of course, so if you know your vet WELL and they can rest assured that you are different to the majority and will not interfere or have a hissy fit, then they will be happy to let you stay in the room.
I usually stand back from my own cats when bloods etc are being taken. i dont want them associating ME with the nasty stuff...... let them hate the VET, because the home care comes down to me....... and it is VERY HARD to nurse someone who hates your guts lol!
i have no idea what went on in your cat's case. i have no reason to question the techniques used. they do seem to have an issue with client communication however. it shoud alll have been explained to you AFTERWARDS. The vet running at the time and ot answering your questions right then just shows the vet was trying to save your animal. the vet did right to prioritise! they put the animal over the bill payer.

[lilynmitz]

Interesting and helpful to hear the other side if the story. I hope that was the case in this instance.

[Lilith]

caveat: i amstudying t be a vet nurse!
I also have cats including ferals, and have dealt with good and bad vets over the years. the reson owners are often asked to step out of the room is not so we can abuse or traumatise your animal. it is not even because the animal will be more or less traumatised by your presence. it is simply because the owner VERY OFTEN makes the job more difficult, makes it take longer and makes it harder on the animal. this is not the case with every owner of course, so if you know your vet WELL and they can rest assured that you are different to the majority and will not interfere or have a hissy fit, then they will be happy to let you stay in the room.
I usually stand back from my own cats when bloods etc are being taken. i dont want them associating ME with the nasty stuff...... let them hate the VET, because the home care comes down to me....... and it is VERY HARD to nurse someone who hates your guts lol!
i have no idea what went on in your cat's case. i have no reason to question the techniques used. they do seem to have an issue with client communication however. it shoud alll have been explained to you AFTERWARDS. The vet running at the time and ot answering your questions right then just shows the vet was trying to save your animal. the vet did right to prioritise! they put the animal over the bill payer.

This is a bit belated as I missed this - but - just have to say.

When a cat has to visit the vet, the owner is the only familiar thing in all those terrifyingly unfamiliar surroundings.

My Mouse, a cat feral and unsocialised during kittenhood, becomes hysterical if there is a visitor to the house and she can't escape; alone with me she's soppy but imagine the situation when she started with a bleeding nipple and needed a trip to the vet. The vet (the same vet who I mentioned above regarding Finn) said jauntily 'oh she'll come out hissing and scratching then!' (Sigh!) No.

Mousey clung to me with arms round my neck. I kissed her and she relaxed - and so did the vet. Luckily the nipple got a clean bill of health and we were both glad to get back home.

Unless the owner is going to be hysterical/squeamish/demand attention (in which case I too would tell them to back off and get over themselves, silly things, need to put the cat first) that owner is much more than the mere 'bill-payer' and can contribute a great deal to that cat's sense of reassurance and security, to say nothing of subsequent nursing. The vet ought to allow the owner to work WITH them, not just to pay the bills.

I do confess, I'm 63 and when I happen to come across some young thing laying down the law to me, I tend to think - 'I was nursing cats when you were still in nappies, cherub!'

[hollihedge]

Dear all
Thank you for all your replies. Just to let you know that after much searching we have found a really good vet (a little way away, but Pumpkin not too bad at travelling in her carrier). He was happy to have us in the consulting room whilst the bloods were taken (although the nurse held her, at his request). He let her have a roam around the examination table and the room before he did anything at all, even examine her, and I stroked her chin and nose and talked to her throughout, and although she was a little bit jumpy whilst the fur was being shaved off, she was fine when the blood was actually taken. What a good girl!! She has been diagnosed with diabetes so it is a good job they were able to take blood. Just got to get the hang of the injections now!
Best wishes,
Gill

[Lilith]

Hi there - very sorry to hear about the diabetes - but so very glad you've found a good vet!

Amazing how calm everything can be with a little understanding eh? And the presence of the owner.

All very best wishes for the future for you and Pumpkin x

[meriad]

Oh I'm so pleased you found a good vet who managed to get the blood without stressing out Holly. And whilst not good that she's been diagnosed with diabetes, at least it's manageable and you know what you're dealing with.

Good luck with the injections

Fusses to your girl x

[Crewella]

To echo the others, I'm sorry to hear about the diabetes, but having a good vet that you trust will be an enormous help in learning to deal with it.

[Jacks]

SO glad you found a sensitive vet - and got the diagnosis you needed. So important to treat cats properly and talk to them! I echo comments about ex-ferals - my little Jessie hates all other humans than those she has bonded to and is terrified of the vet - so spends the consultation with her head tucked in the crook of my arm, taking comfort from me. I would NEVER leave her alone with the vet. She is a sweet, gentle girl but would not be if abandoned to be 'attacked,' in her perception, by an alien. She's a strong cat with strong claws if she's really under threat.

As long as the owner doesn't interfere when asked and respects that there are times when it's better not to be present, so I understand the trainee vet nurse's comments... My youngest needed pus squeezed out of an infected tail, and they took her in another room and swaddled her to do it - the screaming was dreadful, but she then came back to my reassuring arms and all was well. For taking bloods I can't imagine that the owner would be anything other than a reassurance and a comfort - and who wants to have to deal with a spitting, struggling animal if they have a choice?

You will find there are several people on here who are experts with treating diabetic cats, so do start another thread regarding the diabetes if you have any questions or want tips!

All the best to little Pumpkin - what a lovely name for a Tortie!

[lilynmitz]

Your new vet sounds excellent. Mine is just the same. I'm sorry to hear about the diagnosis, but this can be managed with such a supportive vet behind you, and at least you know what you're dealing with now, which is the first important step on the road to recovery. Keep us posted with how you get on.

[hollihedge]

Many thanks everyone. I will keep you updated as to how she gets on and will post a new post re: any helpful tips for her diabetes management.
Best wishes,
Gill

[Cussypat1974]

Nothing beats a cat-friendly practice. Would LOOOOVE to work in one someday, and we had a talk on it in college recently where my lecturer said it would be the only thing that coild possibly tempt her out of teaching, which she loves!

My point was only that, in an emergency situation, your LAST thought is for the hysterical human. If a patient is in respiratory distress they need to be plaed on supportive care, and FAST, in order to save their lives. As a student nurse and as a cat lover, I will put the patient before the client ANYDAY. Now..... The client matters OF COURSE. They are the ultimate caregiver for your patient, and it s THEM who determines the results of your work in many many cases.

It can be hard to place a catheter for fluid therapy or to find a vein for bloods, even for the most skilled professional. An hysterical owner in the corner having a breakdown doesn't help the animal. A calm owner soothing the patient DOES. But of the vet doesn't know you, they don't know which you will be! Human hospitals NEVER let relatives watch procedures for this exact reason. The doctor and nurse need to focus on the patient....... NOT the carer.

I mean absolutely no disrespect to any of you..... Of US, because I have been a client for far longer than I have been a nurse student. Some vets and nurses are horrible, but I honestly think that the majority want the best for their patients. I know I do. And I know I want the best for my own animals in emergencies, so I stand back and let the doctor and nurse do their job, same as I would if it were my husband in a crisis.

[Cussypat1974]

I think it boils down to trust...... And that is where client communication comes in. I will ALWAYS, as a nurse, want the best outcome for my patients. I might come across as rude or dismissive at some stage if I need to help the patient, but I will always tell the client afterwards exactly WHY that was. It is kinda one of the difficulties of the job... Most human doctors have skivvies for the eh? Vets just have nurses!