Anybody familiar with this kind of odd cat snorting?

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randall
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Anybody familiar with this kind of odd cat snorting?

Post by randall »

Hi everybody,

You may remember me as the person living in Italy who took in 2 stray cats -- Paczki and Tang -- but this time I'm asking about my domestic female cat and an odd tic she's been displaying.

This poor little cat's life was completely upended for a month because I became ill enough to need to relocate to another apartment nearer to medical care until I recovered, and my spouse came once a day to feed the cat, who otherwise was left alone, indoors. She always had plenty of food and water, but emotionally this cat has always behaved as if she were my cat alone -- not my spouse's -- and several times she ran out of the house, refusing to come back in (my landlady would finally catch her, although once the cat ended up spending a night outdoors -- fortunately it was quite mild, no rain).

In the confusion surrounding her feedings while I was not there, the other 2 stray male cats would sometimes run in and steal her food, although they were always chased out. Sometimes the indoors girl cat -- Miuccia -- would get confused and want to eat with them outdoors, on their plates, and they would bat her away. No injuries that I can see.

I have since recovered fully and returned home, and needless to say, Miuccia is thrilled to see me! She sleeps on my lap, on my shoulder, she purrs and coos. But she has developed strange eating patterns -- in particular, she will whine and dance for food as always, but when I put down a plate of her favorite wet meat, she will gobble a bite, and then suddenly snort it out, then dash away from the bowl as if a bee had stung her. Or she will snatch just a bite of food from the bowl and then run away with it to the sofa or another room, and eat it furtively . But after that, she loses all interest in eating any more from the same plate.

I have examined her mouth and nose, and cannot see anything wrong, and she does not resist me when I do this as if I were causing her any pain. Sometimes, overnight, the food is gone in the morning. But I am getting concerned she is eating so little of the food she previously always begged ford. I try to trick her with a different flavor or brand entirely, or some dry food. She remains wary. Once or twice she has done some snorting and fleeing -- it's almost like a bark -- when no food at all is involved.

I am thinking that my absence made her confused and nervous, and that the disruption in her food routines -- competing at times with the other, pushier cats -- is making her act out some upsetting memories in this way.

But is it possible she has developed an allergy to her favorite foods? Might I be missing a tooth issue or tongue issue? Why is she doing this? :?:

Alll help appreciated! (And in a future post, I'll catch you up with Tang and Paczki)
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Re: Anybody familiar with this kind of odd cat snorting?

Post by randall »

Update from the evening meal and some googling:

Miuccia responded well to getting some wet food, and I thought she would eat the whole meal. But midway through, she had the same snort/run away reaction, and this time I became concerned the difficulty might be her swallowing.

So I did some googling, which led to me look closely at sites about "dysphagia." She is not drooling, which seems to be an important symptom. She seemed to be experiencing no trouble eating the first half of her meal, but then the reaction, and she has not returned to the same plate to finish her meal.

When I pet her vigorously around the throat, pressing everywhere, she doesn't object at all. She grooms herself as normal.
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Re: Anybody familiar with this kind of odd cat snorting?

Post by Lilith »

Hi, Randall, sorry to hear you've been ill.

An angry, agitated or scared cat can huff and snort like a little horse, so it could well be that Miuccia still doesn't trust the situation and is venting her fear/uncertainty. She's also obviously very insecure around feeding and this will take time to settle down. A vet checkup might be a good idea to rule out anything physical of course, but could it be possible to feed her in a very secluded place, like under the sofa or bed, where she feels more secure?

This is the trouble - you can't explain to cats if you have to go away for a while... I think the remedy here is time.

All the very best with her - and love to Paczki and Tang too :)
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Re: Anybody familiar with this kind of odd cat snorting?

Post by randall »

Lillith,

Thanks for your response! I agree with you, especially based on this subsequent turn of events, which is that when I opened another can of food to feed Paczki and Tang, Miuccia came dancing back, whining to be fed, so I showed her a tablespoon of the wet food, and she ate it without snorting once. I ended up feeding her the entire (small) can, tablespoon by tablespoon, and she ate the whole thing. Some of the food dropped off the spoon and onto the floor, which she ate off the floor -- giving me some reassurance that she isn't having swallowing problems when her head is bent over the food. She did occasionally move away with a mouthful of food to eat privately, but she wanted the whole can.

I don't mind feeding her like that for awhile if it lowers her tension, although I hope she will resume eating from her bowl at some point because I must rely sometimes on other people to feed her. If she reverts to this snorting when she eats, I will take her to the vet. There is one with 24-hour care that takes walk-ins, every day of the year.

When I returned to my home, since it had been mainly shut up entirely while I was elsewhere, I used a de-humidifier and an air filter to get rid of the musty smelling dampness. I found myself wondering if this might have dried out Miuccia's throat a bit.

Paczki and Tang are delighted to be remembered! They actually had a swell time when I was gone from the house, because unbenknownst to my spouse, who faithfully came back to the house to feed them both every day, my landlady was feeding them every morning too! Not only that, but my spouse would give them yet more food when leaving in the evening, because otherwise the cats would follow, out the gate. When I finally returned, Paczki and Tang had double chins! Fluff and buff, but still, they are now on diets.

Before I got sick, I had been able to find VetBed here in Italy through mail order, and I had lined their little igloos with the stuff, so they have stayed quite toasty at night (the weather has also been mild and dry) but it's been a relief to know they have a cosy place to sleep, and the temperatures will inevitably drop. I even bought enough VetBed to change and rotate the bedding, so I can keep everything clean.

The only setback is that, before I left, Paczki was rapidly learning how to be more of a domestic cat. He watched very carefully when I petted Tang, and would come rub his face against Tang's at the same time, allowing me to get in a few strokes on him too, and slowly he was getting happy to be touched all by himself. But he's forgotten most of that now, and looks confused when I pet Tang. He sometimes tries to pet me (with a retracted claw) and he is also bolder about getting into the house and snatching food and chasing away other cats who come on the property. Could be all that extra meat, but I also think he is past due for being neutered.

But everybody is healthy, even lively -- although Miuccia is now sleeping peacefully, on her VetBed cushion, full of food.
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Re: Anybody familiar with this kind of odd cat snorting?

Post by lilynmitz »

To be honest I suspect a problem in her mouth that you haven't spotted. Cats will hide pain and discomfort very well, even when you poke the affected area. Can you pop her along to a vet for a proper look?
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Re: Anybody familiar with this kind of odd cat snorting?

Post by randall »

Not easily at all. I'd need to transport her more than an hour each way in her cat carrier, which is immensely stressful for her. When I have moved her much shorter distances in the carrier she has vomited, defecated and come out panting with stress, laying down on the floor, immobile. So it's not something I put her through without first coming to a determination it really must be done.

Not long ago, she woke up from her nap, went to her food dish in the other room, and brought back a bite of food to eat at my feet, but then returned to finish all the food in the bowl on the floor, with no apparent difficulty in dealing with the food itself. But I'm still watching her and listening to her quite closely.

Do you suspect something specific that I could look for? Some part of her mouth I should examine? She is fairly docile and trusting, although I don't think I'd have to much success trying to look far down her throat unless she is yawning. Any particular symptoms I should look for?
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Re: Anybody familiar with this kind of odd cat snorting?

Post by Cussypat1974 »

has she lost weight? THAT is the real question. Dysphagia just means difficulty eating and can have many causes. But it seems like she can eat just fine, and this is a behavioural issue? if she hasn't lost weight and eats during the night, then I think that the stress of the vet trip might not be warranted. just be wary of feeding her from a spoon all the time, as if she will only eat that way your life ends!
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Re: Anybody familiar with this kind of odd cat snorting?

Post by Cussypat1974 »

and keep a CLOSE eye on her weight..... if she loses weight from this (even if it is behavioural) then she needs a vet. a GOOD VET!
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Re: Anybody familiar with this kind of odd cat snorting?

Post by lilynmitz »

As Cussypat says, keep a close eye on her weight, and if she starts losing weight, or if the snorting gets worse and shows as other discomfort eating, this would suggest a problem that needs medical intervention, and as stressful as it may be for her (and it does sound pretty bad tbh), then it's a case of being cruel to be kind and taking her anyway.
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Re: Anybody familiar with this kind of odd cat snorting?

Post by randall »

Hi everybody! Thanks for your concern.

First of all, she has not lost weight. She does eat complete meals and her energy level is fine and she enjoys affection. Her behavior has pretty much remained the same as yesterday, certianly no worse but no better either (meaning, a continuation of the occasional snort and her seemingly neurotic behavior around food that might be not neurotic at all but a pain in her mouth or throat).

I absolutely agree that her drama-queen hatred of the cat carrier should not be indulged to the point of delaying medical assistance she might need. There is a vet who keeps irregular hours in the town that is about a 25 minute walk from where I live, and where my spouse has an office. My spouse was able to have a conversation with the vet today, despite the vet's office being closed, and give the vet a good description of what Miuccia is doing that is raising questions in our minds. My spouse will be returning home this evening, and I will hear all that the vet had to say, but my spouse did have time to tell me that the vet did not see a need to rush the cat in for a medical exam today.

The vet will be in her office Friday morning, and if I am still worrying at that point, Miuccia will have to suffer a 30 minute trip in her cat carrier to get examined by the vet. If between now and Friday morning she displays any worsening of anything, she will suffer the two-hour roundtrip taxi journey to the 24-hour vet in the nearest city, and I will suffer with her, but it has been done before (even at 4am in the morning) so rest assured I do know that vet trips shouldn't be avoided just because they are not easy.

So I will let you know what happens! Thanks so much again.
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Re: Anybody familiar with this kind of odd cat snorting?

Post by randall »

PS: Regarding spoon feeding Miuccia, I hear you about not wanting my life to end! I have continued to use a spoon to get her interested, feeding her out of the can (which always interests her) but I have begun dropping some of the food on the tile floor off the spoon as well, where she is quite happy to chase and eat it. What she doesn't like is her food dish. She stares at her food dish as if it were a UFO.

But her snorts have not been soley about the food dish or eating. She has once or twice snorted with no food in sight. I think if I hadn't seen her do it with the food, followed by running away from the dish, I might not have noticed anything odd at all about the occasional cat snort. She does sneeze, vocalize, make other short noises that have never attracted my concern. Part of what makes this such a diffiult detective case is my month-long absence.
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Re: Anybody familiar with this kind of odd cat snorting?

Post by randall »

The evening vet report:

Based on my spouse's description, the village vet suspected gingivitis, and gave my spouse a prescription for it, so we could check for gingivitis and if the diagnosis was correct, go ahead and give the cat the medicine. Guided by Google pictures of cat gingivitis, and armed with a flashlight, we were able to examine her gums enough to see that it very much appears that Miuccia has it, although a moderate case of it, with thin areas of red inflammation at the tooth line.

So we will go ahead with the medicinal course and be closely watching the progress, and stand ready to swoop Miuccia off to the vet if need be.

By the way, this village vet saved Tang from severe illness with the right medicine soley based on my description of Tang's symptoms, minus an actual hands-on examination. A great many of the cats around here are not indoor cats, and while I realize it might be unorthodox, the vet frequently provides care and medicine based on eyewitness testimony and I think a lot of cats have received good care that way.

So: Do any of you brush your cat's teeth?
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Re: Anybody familiar with this kind of odd cat snorting?

Post by randall »

Further thoughts:

Based on some Google searches about gingivitis, I plan to take Miuccia to the vet in the city in the not too distant future for a full examination, not only get a hands-on diagnosis, but to rule out stomatitis. I am reading that in most cases of either gingivitis or stomatitis that tooth extraction is advisable, even full tooth extraction. I take it that cats who get full tooth extraction do very well -- yet my first thought was whether she will still be the same beautiful cat without teeth! Silly that sounds, but I am wondering (since I'm not finding any "before and after" pictures. Does anyone know if full tooth extractiona alters a cat's appearance?
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Re: Anybody familiar with this kind of odd cat snorting?

Post by Crewella »

I've never braved brushing their teeth, but used to feed mine raw chicken wings (never cooked as cooked bones are brittle and dangerous) to help keep their teeth clean. I've only stopped because since we moved they are all either hunting or sharing the prey caught by the others, so their teeth are getting a good natural 'workout' on bones/skin/gristle anyway.

My Grumpy Nellie (on the left) has no teeth, but is possibly a bad example - she always did look a bit grumpy and down-in-the-mouth, even when she had teeth!! :D

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d154/ ... C00847.jpg

Losing their teeth can make them feel a little vulnerable, but overall they seem to cope well and (to me anyway) look much the same as before.
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Re: Anybody familiar with this kind of odd cat snorting?

Post by MarySkater »

My late cat Shadow had mild gingivitis right from kittenhood. I had some tests done, but no cause was apparent. She could eat perfectly well and had no discomfort, so all I did was feed her on large-kibble dry food designed to keep the teeth clean. Her teeth started falling out when she was 5. Again, it didn't seem to trouble her (and she could still eat the dry food). This photo was taken when she was 8, and I think most of her teeth had gone by then, certainly all the canines.

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5699/236 ... 0823_c.jpg

I only really noticed it when she yawned - or perhaps, when I saw another cat yawn and show a nice set of teeth, which Shadow didn't have any more. But being toothless didn't seem to bother her, or change her in any way.

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Re: Anybody familiar with this kind of odd cat snorting?

Post by randall »

Thanks! That info is really helpful.

I've tried to give Miuccia the very small half pill crushed and hidden in food -- first, in a bit of canned sardine, which got rejected at the first lick, even though she had fully eaten a test bite of sardine a half hour before. Then the second try was a spoonful of her usual favorite wet meat with the medicine powder buried in it -- and that got an even worse reaction of spitting and running under the bed. She reappeared shortly, so I decided to give her a bit of just the wet meat, with no medicine. She sniffed, and went back under the bed.

In a while, my spouse and I will try to get the pill into her mouth manually. My concern now is the possibility she is going to start associating me and food with enough bad tastes and discomforts she is going to avoid us both.
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Re: Anybody familiar with this kind of odd cat snorting?

Post by randall »

We got the pill in her. It is an anti-inflammatory, so if her spookiness about food has been gum pain, I am hoping it has a fast affect so she loves eating again, soon as possible.
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Re: Anybody familiar with this kind of odd cat snorting?

Post by Crewella »

Oh well done for getting it down her! I tend to favour the 'grab them and down the hatch' method for pills, most of mine have been too clever by half and always spotted disguised pills! They do forgive you, especially if you follow up with fuss and treats.

I just remembered, my Greebo still had a couple of molars but we had to remove all his canines and front teeth because they were all broken - we think he was kicked in the face. You wouldn't have known it - you just noticed if he yawned that he had no canines.
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Re: Anybody familiar with this kind of odd cat snorting?

Post by randall »

Well, that was quick!

Half hour after giving Muiccia the pill, I decided to see if she might eat a different brand of wet cat food in a different spot (I was watching her avoid a plate of her favorite food on in her usual feeding place). Miuccia gobbled down an entire packet of this different food off a plate, no spoon-feeding, no snorting and no running away. She was so eager to eat that once she licked the plate clean, I presented her with the plate of her usual favorite wet cat food. She dove in for her first eager bite, snorted loudly and abruptly, and ran away.

:?:

So I am quite glad she ate a full meal, and will stock up on more of that brand (it was my last packet!), I am more puzzled than ever. :roll:
Last edited by randall on Wed Dec 16, 2015 9:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Anybody familiar with this kind of odd cat snorting?

Post by randall »

Crewella,

We were writing at the same time. Thanks for all that info, and if it turns out Miuccia needs her teeth pulled, I am glad I will be able to truthfully reassure she will still be a fashion plate. (She is named in honor of famed Italian fashion designer Miuccia Prada.)

Fortunately Miuccia is small and not strong, and my spouse and I just sort of sandwiched her between us in a trap and it worked to get the pill in her. We formerly had a cat that needed a course of pills that was super strong and all claws, and we have the scars to prove it. Mercifully, he adored yoghurt, which didn't render the pill less effective, so I ground it up in yoghurt and it literally saved our skin.
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Re: Anybody familiar with this kind of odd cat snorting?

Post by Crewella »

I think puzzlement is the natural state of most cat slaves, they do like to keep us on our toes! :D

Perhaps the pill did just take the edge off the pain, but she remembered that the last time she ate her usual food it hurt her? Hopefully she will continue to eat less familiar foods, and the the memory will gradually fade if you manage to solve any discomfort issues.

And yes, she will still be gorgeous. :)
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Re: Anybody familiar with this kind of odd cat snorting?

Post by lilynmitz »

So pleased you're making some progress. Perhaps the pill did contain some degree of pain killer? So pleased she's eating again. It shows how uncomfortable she must have been feeling. Cats do hide it very well. They are conditioned to hide illness as showing weakness makes them vulnerable to rivals and predators.

As an extreme example of what cats can cover up, my dear departed Mo was climbing trees and playing with me in the garden the day before he suddenly collapsed and died one day when I was out, at age only 7 yrs. It was only the post mortem that revealed advanced cancer. We did know he was unwell and were doing tests and treating him for a liver condition, but only because I insisted, as the vet couldn't find anything wrong with him from cursory examination, and his coat was glossy and his demeanour happy right to the end. He was just off his food a bit and sleeping more than usual. The lesson being, never assume because they're still eating and purring that everything's ok.
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Re: Anybody familiar with this kind of odd cat snorting?

Post by randall »

Yes, I have experienced cats toughing it out, and they are true stoics. I am still wondering if either Miuccia has developed an allergy to something in the brand of cat food, or maybe just expeirenced psychological trauma when the other cats kept dashing into her formerly totally private, secure space to raid her food dish, and she is having Proust-like associations with the smell of her formerly favorite food.

My spouse says "Cats hallucinate."

:shock:

Anyway, now Miuccia is sleeping peacefully on the bed in a post-meat coma. But I am now pretty determined to take her to a vet, even if she never snorts again eating buckets of her new favorite food. It is highly possible the anti-inflammatory took the edge off, but if she is just hallucinating, I don't want to be giving her medicine. And if she does have gingivitis or worse, the beginnings of stomatitis, she will need more treatment than anti-inflammatories.

But at least she ate dinner.
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Re: Anybody familiar with this kind of odd cat snorting?

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So I was awoken before dawn this morning by the rather noisy sound of a recycle bag being torn apart, and small tins being chased around the kitchen. So Miuccia was still very hungry. :twisted:

Alas, I had given her the last packet of the food she had gobbled up last night, so the only thing I could do was to offer a tin of the wet food that used to her favorite, but which she had been snorting at and fleeing for days. SHE ATE THE WHOLE THING. The difference this morning? I put it on the sofa, not the floor.

In reporting all this later to my spouse, who slept soundly through the events, the response was the new information that during my absence, when my spouse was feeding Miuccia, she began jumping on the kitchen table, possibly looking to be fed there instead of the floor.

So we will take Miuccia to the vet for a professional exam, and we are continuing with the medicines until then. But we think we are seeing a lot of evidence that once Miuccia felt her usual feeding spot was no longer secure, and wild cats from outdoors had discovered it, and even interrupted her meals to steal from her plate, she felt extremely anxious eating in the same spot and eating the same food that had attracted the all-boy crew of claw-swiping thieves. 8-) 8-) 8-)

I don't want to continue feeding her on our bright green sofa (I covered it with tablecloths, but still). I'll look for a spot that is both elevated and a bit hidden.

In other local news: A big ebony boy cat from the neighborhood has found our two igloos lined with VetBed and evicted Paczki, who now lives squeezed in with Tang in the remaining igloo. I though I had successfully gotten rid of this ebony beauty before, as I am sure he has an owner up the hill, but he took advantage of my absence, and the extra food left for the other cats, and the warm igloo is just too good a deal to give up. Sadly, when he reappeared, his beautiful mink-like fur is now marred by what looks like a severe flea bite allergy -- lots of bald spots and hot red skin showing through. He is not keen on being petted and looks capable of delivering a nasty claw swipe or even a bite, but I'll look for a way to give him some spot treatment to chase off the fleas before trying to chase him off again.
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Re: Anybody familiar with this kind of odd cat snorting?

Post by Lilith »

Naughty girl lol!

Looks like you've restored her confidence around eating :)

I really think the snorting was due to agitation; I've had cats with gingivitis but they didn't snort or mess with their food in that way. Though of course they're all different. My eldest girl just seemed anxious and fussy; she kept rubbing her mouth against me, so I checked - and it was a case of off to the vet. But she's placid and my vet is close at hand; I'm lucky.

As for the Ebony Invader - poor Paczki and Tang! Though I expect they're keeping each other warm - once you eradicate Ebony's leas, and him, they'll probably stay cuddled up in the same igloo ... cats! :D
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Re: Anybody familiar with this kind of odd cat snorting?

Post by randall »

Muiccia is now eating dry food -- as long as she can sit on the sofa and eat it. She's being very Goldilocks: The table is too high, the floor is too low. The sofa -- exactly in the spot where I usually sit -- is just right. :D

How did I fall for this again? :roll:

The ebony cat has wandered off for the evening. But my spouse had already sighed today and said: "I guess we might as well get a third igloo." :|

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Re: Anybody familiar with this kind of odd cat snorting?

Post by Crewella »

Oh clever girl, impressive work 'Goldilocks'!! :lol:

It may be Cats 4 / Humans 0 ....... but you know you'd be the loser without them. :)
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Re: Anybody familiar with this kind of odd cat snorting?

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So the cats are officially in the doghouse now. They wrecked my landlady's outdoor nativity display! :o

It's not clear which cats are the culprits. Apparently, one or more tried to get into my landlady's house, and the 2 big dogs inside spotted them and gave chase, whereupon one or more cat leapt into the creche for protection! (Probably mistook it for an igloo. :P ) I don't know exactly what got broken (I had not even noticed that my landlady had put up a creche), but I returned from the store to find her sweeping up glass and understandably distressed about this turn of events. :x She is especially upset I think because she knows the ebony cat has an owner up the hill who is not taking care of the cat, so the cat is hanging out here, hungry and disruptive and spreading fleas, so she might pay a holiday visit to the owner up the hill. :!:

In the meantime, Miuccia is eating me out of house, home and sofa. But at least she is not outside destroying religious displays.

We never would have ended up in this patch if when wild little Paczski had first shown up to stare at me through the window, I had only stared back at him. :geek:
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Re: Anybody familiar with this kind of odd cat snorting?

Post by Crewella »

Ooooops! At least your little lady is in the clear. I do understand your landlady being upset, especially if she feels the black cat is hanging round due to lack of care on the owner's part. I'm glad I'm not the owner right now - that won't be a cheerful holiday visit!
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Re: Anybody familiar with this kind of odd cat snorting?

Post by randall »

Hello everybody! Belated Happy New Year and hoping you are enjoying carnevale, wherever you are!

Just wanted to update this thread and -- speaking of carnevale -- ask another question.

First of all, beautiful Miuccia did get taken to the vet for her odd snorting and avoidance behavior around food, which immediately returned once the prednisone wore off after a few days, following the end of her dosing. On the taxi ride to the vet, she vomited and defecated in panic, but there was no other choice.

The vet pronounced her as having a very mild case of gingivitis, and said it was usually impossible to tell why it had arisen since it could have multiple causes. He gave her an antibiotic shot and a long-acting steroid shot, and said if she was not completely better in 12-14 days to bring her back for tests.

That was more than a month ago, and Miuccia has shown no other problem eating and is happy with all her food. She had been running away from it, or would only eat if I put it in special new places. Now she eats from her same old plates in her same old spot, and it's like nothing ever happened. So I am hoping it stays that way forever. :D

The question I have is this:

During the time when Miuccia had to be coaxed to eat, I bought her chicken, which I boiled without salt in plain water. She loved it, and loved the broth too. Because there was a cold snap, I also gave Paczski and Tango, the comical cats who live in my garden (actually, in the little igloos I bought for them) some of the warm chicken and broth. It is not so cold these days, and Miuccia doesn't need to be coaxed to eat, but all the gatti like the warm chicken & broth so much (and it has been drizzly and chilly, you know) that I give them chicken just about every other day, and sometimes days in a row. In between, they all get canned wet food and some dry food.

Is there anything wrong with giving them that much cooked chicken and broth?

Thanks!
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