New rescue cat upsetting older cat's Chi :(

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Ducky
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New rescue cat upsetting older cat's Chi :(

Post by Ducky »

Kitty came from the RSPCA in 2007 and up until until recently she has been the only cat in the household. She has never really had any cat friends, except a ginger cat when we lived in Leeds a few years back.

She is very nervous of other cats. She's not aggressive as such, until approached by one, and then she'll growl and hiss and maybe have a swipe at them with a paw. Even with people, she is friendly on her own terms. She doesn't like children or loud voices. She responds best to calm people, mostly men, quiet voices and no sudden movements. She sleeps a lot. She loves her home comforts and the central heating. She is probably aged around 12/13 or so, at the vet's estimate, but she's still fairly agile and has the odd crazy run around the house, especially after disgracing her litter tray.

We moved back to the family home four years ago when my father became ill. The next door neighbours have six cats, all lovely, friendly kitties, three of which are often in my garden or miaowing to come in but Kitty hates them, and is very reluctant to go outside if she can see them out there. We try to keep them at bay, although she has started to ignore them a bit more as time has passed.

There is a young black male across the road who has been coming to greet me for fuss lately. He'll wander into the hallway and she'll be sat there watching him... no aggression, no growling or hissing, and this has given me hope that perhaps she has started to mellow out a little.

These last six months or so, I've been visiting the local animal rescue/sanctuary, originally with a friend who was in the process of rehoming a dog, but more recently on my own. I go mainly to see the kitties. I take some treats and some fuss, stir their food up a bit, shake out their blankets and remake their beds, and give them a little brush. It's just become a part of my Sunday routine. I'd been getting to know the longer-termers and wondering if any of them might be suitable as company for Kitty. There was a particular trio who had been there for some time, maybe a year or so, which they were struggling to rehome. Hugo, a big gentle masked giant of a cat, quiet, pensive and very tolerant, if somewhat timid, and his two ladyfriends: two lovely, friendly, bouncy cats who took the odd swipe at him if he went for their treats or got in the way of the fuss. He never swiped back however, he just ambled off and left them to it. He seemed to be the ideal choice and that brings me to where I am now. I bought him home in January. I followed all the usual advice about keeping and feeding them apart and gradually swapping scents on blankets etc. He lived in the spare room for the first three weeks or so. She knew he was there, and she seemed quite nervous about him which was only to be expected, she gave the odd sniff and growl at the door, and now and then would go patrolling round the house checking for stowaways. About four weeks in, I started to let him out in the evenings whilst I was home but I would still shut him away at night to give her a break. And shortly after that I started to let him roam about over the weekend when I was there, and he would have the whole of the upstairs during the working day, and eventually I started to let him roam about at night too. He tends to settle at the end of my bed and as far as I know, he doesn't move until morning. He isn't going out yet and it will be some time before I am confident that he won't just bolt at the first loud noise. He doesn't come to me when I call him, nor for food or treats. He's not ready for the big wide world just yet.

I've got a Feliway diffuser plugged in downstairs, and 'Pet Remedy' diffusers plugged in downstairs and upstairs too. Kitty is on a daily 75mg dose of Zylkene although the efficacy of that may be limited by her fussy eating habits. She rarely finishes a bowl of food, unless it's freshly steamed salmon, which is starting to cost me a small fortune! Nothing restores balance to domestic injustice like a steamed salmon supper...

Anyway. The short of it is: Kitty still isn't showing any signs of accepting Hugo. If anything, it feels like we have gone backwards in the last week or two. She used to sleep on my bed every night and sometimes in the daytime too. Now she rarely comes up the stairs and if at all, she comes in, has a sniff around and then leaves again very quickly.

She rarely seems 'at rest' either. She's always watching out for him. She knows that he trots around after me and that wherever I am, he's soon to follow. If he's been shut away for the night or the day, long enough for her to have forgotten about him, she might come to me for some fuss and I may even get a purr out of her. As soon as he shows up though, she's wide-eyed and on-guard again and will sometimes growl at me too. She is eating, although her appetite isn't great. She's using her litter tray although it's become a bit difficult to monitor that, now that he's also using that one occasionally (he has his own litter box upstairs). There are no obvious outward signs of illness or discomfort. She's still very vocal when I'm chopping up her salmon and blowing on it to cool it down. But she's behaving like the nervous newcomer whilst he's ambling about like he's lived here all his life. It's very upsetting to see her like this. It's almost like a rejection, a perpetual sulk, like she hates me for upsetting her Chi and ruining what was a relatively peaceful and happy little home.

He has never (that I have seen) been aggressive to her. As he walks past her, sometimes he'll stop and look up at her with his little eyebrows raised, only for her to growl at him until he moves on. He more than often gives her a wide berth and won't try to pass too close to her. They sometimes sit at opposite ends of the room and 'eye' each other. He's very interested in her though and it certainly seems to me that he just wants to be friends.

It is early days yet, granted. He's been with us for around seven weeks now. I accept that these things take time, but I also accept that sometimes, these things never work out. I'm really hoping this isn't one of those times.

Have I rushed this? Given Kitty's reticence with other cats, should I have kept them apart 24/7 for a bit longer? I have family coming to stay next week  (uninvited guests, and not my choice, else I'd have cancelled the visit) so he won't be able to stay in the spare room for a few days. I don't know what to do for the best during that time, or afterwards.

I would hate for Hugo to have to go back to the sanctuary. I would feel like I'd let him - and them - down badly. He has really come out of his shell these last few weeks. He's a big cuddly clown of a cat and I adore him. All my visitors adore him too and he just seems right at home here. I did this for all the right reasons and genuinely thought I'd found the perfect companion for Her Majesty. If this isn't going to work out though, when will I know this? How long is 'too long' to keep striving for harmony when I may just be making things worse for them both?

If you've made it this far, thank you, and any advice on what I'm doing wrong or what I could do differently, would be very gratefully received. I'm ready to try anything.

D.
Last edited by Ducky on Mon May 09, 2016 7:21 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Crewella
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Re: New rescue cat upsetting older cat's Chi : advice please?

Post by Crewella »

It's difficult, but seeing as there is no fur flying and actual aggression, it doesn't sound like things are too bad, though it is a lot for your girl to take on board. I would just keep going on as you are, but accept that they may never be 'friends' and you may need to continue to monitor them and give your girl a break from him, for some part of the day, for some time to come.

The main thing is that she seems to be able to keep him in his place, and he seems willing to accept that so far .... so there is hope!:)
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Re: New rescue cat upsetting older cat's Chi : advice please?

Post by Ducky »

Hello Crewella,

Thank you for this. It's reassuring, and I can see that it could be a lot worse! I've read through lots of old posts about cats physically fighting and the serious psychological fallout from it. Neither of them are scrappers, least of all him. She's just so obviously unsettled and it's not nice to see. Kitty and I have been through a lot together; lots of house moves and upheaval over the years. I want her twilight years to be peaceful and comfortable.

We've had a few 'ooh, okay' moments since I originally posted. She's still very wary of him and he gets a feisty 'hiss!' if he wanders too close, but they've spent an evening in the living room together (albeit on separate chairs!) with seemingly no issues, and they've both been sat a few feet away from each other in the kitchen, waiting for me to dish up the salmon. I'm still shutting him in the spare room at night, and she actually ventured upstairs at 5.05am yesterday morning to check (and double-check) under my duvet for monsters and then again at half six, singing her empty food bowl song. I wouldn't normally be so pleased to see her at that time!

Poor Hugo definitely knows his place! He just wants to be friends, bless him. He'll be roaming at night-time through 'til Sunday now, the spare room is needed, although I should still be able to keep them on separate floors for periods of time during the day and possibly also at night.

On a recommendation, I've ordered some Rescue Remedy to try in her water. She doesn't drink on demand, so it might be a bit hit and miss, but I use Aspen flower essence on her in the rare event that I ever need to take her anywhere in the car and it seems to stop her panicking and settle her down.

More time and patience, then... and less talk of giving in!

D.
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Re: New rescue cat upsetting older cat's Chi : advice please?

Post by Crewella »

To be honest it sounds as though you have been lucky in that Hugo seems to be an affable sort that won't make trouble and wants to be friends. Makes all the difference!

I have a houseful of cats, mostly in their early to mid teens, that have all joined me at different stages and thankfully have grudging learned to accept each other and rub along. There is the odd spat, and one or two that get along better than others, but overall it's a happy, peaceful household. From everything that you've said, and believe me I do understand you concerns about Kitty, I think it will work out OK as long as she remains in control and as 'top cat'.

Give her a fuss from me and my Grumpy Nellie, also a lady of 'a certain age' who doesn't always appreciate the 'lads' in her domain, and give Hugo a fuss from me and my Daz, who also just wants to play sometimes but ends up being hissed at and feeling like 'Billy-No-Mates'! :)
Ducky
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Re: New rescue cat upsetting older cat's Chi : advice please?

Post by Ducky »

Hi Crewella :)

All fusses gratefully received at this end! Sometimes I think we might be mellowing out a little at last... and then other times we seem to have gone a bit backwards again. Last night Hugo behaved like an old drunkard! ...following Kitty around everywhere, sitting in her escape routes and staring at her longingly, then running about the house like a loon with a tail like a feather duster... I shut him upstairs with me in the end to give her a break.

He really does just want to be friends. Kitty and I were playing with a laser pointer this evening and he got wind of it... I eyed him crouching down in his wiggly-bottom-ready-to-pounce pose and just caught him in time! When she runs off, he runs after her. I can't imagine he's about to hurt her; I think he's just curious and thinks she's playing. When she beds down for the evening on the sofa, he sits on the floor and watches her for a while.

One thing that does bring momentary calm is The Great Salmon Dishing-Up. Every second/third evening (although with increasing frequency) I'll steam a salmon fillet and split it between them. They 'queue up' for it: Kitty steadfast at her bowl, with young Oliver Twist sat behind her, wide-eyed and shaking with hungry anticipation. I'm feeding them closer and closer together; at the moment we're at opposite ends of the same room. Kitty is venturing out of the living room a bit more often now too, even though it usually ends in a hissy fit when she encounters Hugo on her travels.

One thing I do know: he can't go back to the rescue. Not now. He's settling in so well here, even with Kitty's hostile behaviour. He has a huge fan club already and I can't bear the thought of him having to get used to new people and surroundings all over again. He's still quite skittish and jumps at silly things like bags and cardboard boxes and I truly believe that moving him on again would be a far greater evil than just pressing on and trying to make the best out of this for everyone. And I've just forked out for a new microchip cat flap to put in the kitchen door. I already have two of them leading into the garden for Kitty but I need bigger ones for him. He can squeeze through it but he's clearly uncomfortable with it (I have to give him a leg up).

So all in all, I'm committed to this, and we have to make it work.
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Re: New rescue cat upsetting older cat's Chi : advice please?

Post by Jacks »

Dear Ducky,

Your Hugo sounds an absolute darling and no, he can't go back to the rescue now.

I have a feeling she will never love him, but she'll get used to him. I have 6 cats now, all rescued at different times - some coming to me, and my decision was to let fate deal me what it had and love these lost babies.

No 5 was a gorgeous fluffy female, about 2 years old, joining a home of three other females (2, 2 and about 6) and an ex-wild male of about 5. She was really laid back with other cats, took to the male immediately (quick sniff of his nose when he was in a box, which shocked the life out of him, and she'd accepted him) and the two younger females only took about 6 weeks to acclimatise.

The 6 year old Queen was not impressed. If the new girl had bowed to her rule instantly (i.e. made herself completely scarce) it might have been easier, but my new girl was friendly and loved company. So - in short - it took 46 weeks. 46 weeks of hissing, passive aggression, occasional swipes and intimidation and suddenly after the 'newbie' came back from a vet visit it was like "Oh there you are, glad you're back". She was accepted. She's now friends with everyone, and I let her out in the garden (I kept her in whilst things were not right, cos I'm a nervous type) and now she's as happy as anything. 46 weeks out of her life is not a bad deal as she had plenty of love, treats and play - but now things are absolutely fine. They respect each other and are happy to be in each other's company.

The thing is that I was confident we would get there, and that I loved her and she wasn't going to go anywhere. Cats are enigmatic and adorable creatures but they also have much more straight forward ways of seeing things. You'll get there!
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Rescue cat upsetting older (now very poorly) cat's Chi :(

Post by Ducky »

Hello Jacks :)

Your story is lovely and gives me some hope.

Well we haven't made any progress towards inter-feline harmony but we have another problem now: Kitty's stopped eating. I got home Tuesday night and neither of them came to meet me. I thought it might be a protest at the heating not coming on (I'd forgotten to change the timer when the clocks went forward) so I left them to it. Hugo eventually came down for his tea, and at about half seven I went to rouse Kitty. She wasn't in any hurry to come downstairs. She ate a tiny bit of salmon and then went back up to her bed. I stayed with her that night to keep an eye on her. I did notice she had left a messy poop in the tray.

She came down with me in the morning and licked at a bit of fishy wet food and some salmon sauce. She picked at a bit of chicken Wednesday evening and left another messy poop. Yesterday (Thursday) she hadn't eaten anything at all when I got home so I took her to the vet last night. They said she may have a tummy bug. Temperature fine, weight not great (but she's a slender kitty anyway), slightly dehydrated, but no other obvious issues. She got an anti-emetic jab and some oral metronidazole.

This morning she would eat nothing and although she seemed interested in the food, she would back away from it. At my lunchtime visit she had perked up a bit and nibbled at a few bits of chicken. She went into the conservatory and although there is a cat flap, she was still out there when I came home. She came in shivering and licking her lips a lot. I warmed her up a bit with a blanket and a wheat bag and I took her back to the vet. They say the anti-emetic should have worked (even tho it was a very small dose) and now they are talking about checking for possible pancreatic or kidney issues. She's had some blood samples taken and I am waiting for a call to tell me what they've found.

She is listless and unresponsive...no purring, not even growling at Hugo. She is eating nothing, not even her favorite steamed chicken. She is currently asleep (very asleep, and very quiet with it) in her bed in the hallway. This is where she was hiding so I put her bed there. I am sat on the floor beside her, and very worried. She is a delicate little flower and has had sicky episodes before but nothing as prolonged as this. The last anti-emetic she had worked within 24 hours.

I have been thinking back to what she has eaten. She recently showed a liking for cat milk, so I made a point of putting some down most days. Then one day she had a lap at my breakfast cereal, so I have put a drop of organic milk down for her on the odd night, say, an eggcup or so, maybe two or three times a week when I think of it. It's usually mostly gone in the morning. This is only the last 2 weeks or so. She's had it before but was never really fussed about it.

Now I'm wondering if it is the milk that has caused this? She hadn't had any for a day or so before all this started; her poops had gotten a bit hard and miserable-looking so I stopped it in case it was the milk causing it. Could this have been building up or caused irritation/inflammation that we are now seeing the effects of? Would the stress of having a new cat invading her safe space have made her more susceptible to this kind of upset?

I am desperately worried. If it is something big that is going to mean her being hassled with pills and jabs and trips to the vet, I don't know how she'll cope. She doesn't travel at all well and even a short car trip to the vet stresses her out terribly. She is a very fussy eater too. I have spent a fortune on ageing wet food choices to help her put on a bit of weight but I've ended up giving it all away. If she can't eat what she wants, when she wants, I'm afraid that she'll just fade away.

I feel hopeless at the moment. I'm watching the clock, waiting for the vet to call. If he doesn't call, apparently it's either because he's busy with emergencies or because there's nothing seriously wrong and I'll hear tomorrow.

It's going to be a long night :(

D.
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Re: New rescue cat upsetting older (now very poorly) cat's Chi :(

Post by Crewella »

I hope the vet has now gotten back to you with some results? It does sound like some sort of bug possibly .... and all you can do is keep trying to tempt her to eat and follow the vet's advice. You'll drive yourself mad trying to work out if you can have caused this ..... and probably get nowhere .... be kind to yourself and concentrate on getting her to eat and moving forward.

Mine always seem to go for warm chicken, fed by hand, when they're ill. Anything that she'll usually eat, perhaps warmed to make it smell more enticing. Licking her lips like that can be a sign of feeling nauseous, so it might be worth considering another anti-emetic and I believe they can also give an appetite stimulant? The best you can do is talk to your vet about it - I wish her better soon. xx
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Re: New rescue cat upsetting older (now very poorly) cat's Chi :(

Post by Ducky »

Hi Crewella,

Thank you. I sure hope it is just a bug. I heard back from the vet late last night. There was nothing obviously wrong from the blood tests: kidney function within normal range(ish) and just slight dehydration. He said it was unlikely to be the milk since it wasn't an immediate reaction, but I don't think I'll be giving her any more. He said it was often just a matter of treating the symptoms with cats, and sometimes they never find out what the cause is. He said to keep on with the metronidazole and bring her back in today if she still hadn't eaten anything. He did say she could have some steroids to tickle her appetite and possibly some painkillers in case. So I gave her a syringe of that which was a bit of a struggle...I hate grappling with her... she feels so frail and it stresses her out awfully, and I ended up wearing most of it... even in my hair?! Then I mixed up some salmon sauce with some warm water and gave her a few syringes of that too, just hoping to kick-start her appetite a bit. Before I went to bed I chopped up some warm chicken and she had peck at that - I could have cheered if I thought it wouldn't have put her off! - and she had a little pouch of the Lick-e-Licks Liver Sauce (which smells so awful it makes me gip!). I left her to sleep in her bed in the hallway and went back down to her at six this morning. She had a nibble at some RC Ageing 12+ jelly blob first thing (I've stocked up on more of it today just in case it's all she'll eat) and had some water and had a pee - woohoo! - and throughout the day she's nibbled on bits of chicken, steamed whitefish (nice and plain) and even a couple of salmon Dreamies. Now she's curled up inside my furry coat lining, and fast asleep. She must be exhausted by all this.

She is still backing away from her usual food though and I will certainly consider another anti-emetic jab tomorrow if she still looks to be struggling. We've had no V&D since Thursday now so hopefully whatever it was has worked it's way through and we are in recovery.

She's a delicate one, is Kitty, and I think we're probably always going to have the odd episode like this. Poor Hugo doesn't know what's going on but has been quite happy to finish off Kitty's buffet leftovers!

Onward and upward x
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Re: New rescue cat upsetting older (now very poorly) cat's Chi :(

Post by Crewella »

That's great, I'm so pleased she seems to have turned a corner! It's such a relief, isn't it! :)

Give her a gentle fuss from me. xx
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Re: New rescue cat still upsetting older cat's Chi :(

Post by Ducky »

Well, seems we're pretty much back on form again ... eating the best part of two pouches of RC 12+ a day which is a huge relief! \o/

I've taken delivery of another four boxes of the stuff today.

Unfortunately she's become even more of a mardy bum than before she was ill! The more settled Hugo becomes the more playful he gets and she's not liking it one bit. He crouches down, wiggles his bottom and runs at her, and as she runs off he bats her tail! If I'm lucky to catch him first, I give him a bit of side-eye and a raised eyebrow and he stops and makes like he was about to have a wash. But it seems to be stressing her out a lot more than before, and likewise me! When one or both are a-bed, it's peaceful, but when they're both roaming about, especially at night, every few minutes or so she'll be growling at him. It's not like he gets very close to her; he only needs to stop and look at her and it sets her off. I feel like I'm split between the two of them. I can't have them both near me because there'll be conflict. It's a bit of a stresspit at the moment.

Hugo has gotten into a routine of sleeping on the end of my bed in Kitty's old bed. He's so big he capsizes it when he gets in, and one end or the other of him always ends up hanging out. She is sleeping in his massive bed on the bed in the spare room and looks like a kitten in it. She'll rarely come into my room these days in case he's in there. It's quite sad. I wonder if she feels a bit pushed out... and whether I should swap the beds round and try and encourage them to swap sleeping places? I don't know how that would work... he's very headstrong and she'd probably just panic and hide downstairs again.

I was reading an old article by Pam Johnson-Bennett today (promoting her book, Cat-vs-Cat) in which she suggests going back to the introduction phase again if things don't seem to be working out... separating them again, the scent-swapping, and so on. She promotes quite a prolonged introductory phase and even though I only did it for about a month, it was really hard work, but I'm in the market for anything right now.

Should I try this again do you think? Keep them on separate floors and apart and start it all over again? It would be a shame to have to shut either of them away again... Hugo loves going into the lean-to to watch the birdies and sleep in the rays of sunshine, and Kitty likes to go outside from time to time... They'd both need access to the ground floor for this.

It's been ten weeks now. I hoped she might have started to accept him a little more by now, but it feels like it's going the opposite way.
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