Very early signs of kidney failure

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Kris35
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Very early signs of kidney failure

Post by Kris35 »

My 18 year old cat had her bloods done this week and they have all come back pretty much ok. I cant really remember what the vet said as I was so happy but one thing I do remember her saying is that my cats bloods were one number down from the very early stages of kidney disease. So she doesn't have it yet but is getting close to early stages. I wanted to ask if anyone knows the best way to help a cat with early stages of kidney disease. Thanks.
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Re: Very early signs of kidney failure

Post by Kris35 »

Just want to add an alert to this.
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Re: Very early signs of kidney failure

Post by TJH72 »

My 19 y/o cat has more advanced stages of CKD, but for the past 15 months everything has remained stable, which is good. I just wish it had been picked up earlier, before she went blind (which is how the CKD was diagnosed). That said, blood tests 5 months previous to the diagnosis came back ok, but I didn't know then that the old blood tests only detected kidney disease when the kidneys were 70% destroyed. If my other cat were to get diagnosed with early stages (thankfully they've finally come up with a test that will pick the disease up early) I would probably start getting in the renal cat food in for him too (I know he likes it because he happily eats my other cat's food). Wouldn't give it every meal but perhaps half of the time give him that and half the time his normal food. It would be a way of getting your cat used to the change of food. There is a lot of choice out there but mine will only eat the Royal Canin Renal pouches. The Hills ones made her sick, but she wasn't keen on them anyway. Any others she just turns her nose up. Unfortunately she is getting problems with her gums and is not eating very much, that said when I put 'normal' food down she manages to get through it, albeit slowly, so I have a decision myself to make there (about to post new thread about it).
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Re: Very early signs of kidney failure

Post by Crewella »

Most cats do lose some kidney function as they get into old age, so there is a good reason to feed the senior ranges of cat foods as they do support kidney function better than regular food (and I'm a bit of a cynic about specialist cat foods). I have fed senior foods to cats with CKD that wouldn't eat the prescribed renal foods, and it has helped - mostly Felix pouches in jelly.
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Jan
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Re: Very early signs of kidney failure

Post by Jan »

I've had 3 different opinions from 3 vets since Blackie was diagnosed with early stage CKD in March 2015.

The vet who gave me the diagnosis advised I should feed Blackie with RC renal food a couple of days a week. Another vet, at our usual clinic near our home in Kent told me this wasn't any good - he should be on renal food only, nothing else.

We've been down In NSomerset since last May and the local vet here said based on the blood/urine results last July she saw no reason why he couldn't go on eating his favourite food as long as I added a phosphate binder to it. The latest blood + urine tests earlier this month have shown that all Blackie's results haven't declined hardly at all in a year. .

Perhaps speaking to your vet would be the best thing .... I can only say that the Ipakitine phosphate binder has worked so far for Blackie's early stage CKD.
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Re: Very early signs of kidney failure

Post by Kris35 »

Im getting a bit worried here as my vet hasnt mentioned anything about a urnine test - maybe because my cats bloods have come back ok? I wonder if I should have one done anyway? I think she is drinking more water - but hard to tell as she demands I get it from the bathroom tap and then sometimes doesn't drink it anyway.

TJ have you had your cat all the 19 years? That is amazing. I personally never want that relationship again though. Crewella, the thing is, my cat has chronic diarrhea and only raw food stops her doing bloody poos. Urgh!! Jan I have just been looking at this phosforus binder - thankyou. Just asked my vets to email me her blood results so I can get a handle on exactly what is what.
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Jan
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Re: Very early signs of kidney failure

Post by Jan »

Personally I would ask for a urine test - especially if you have any suspicions that your cat might be drinking more than normal.

One thing all 3 vets did agree on - as far as Blackie is concerned - is that he should have a blood test every 6 months and a urine test every 3.
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Re: Very early signs of kidney failure

Post by Kris35 »

Thanks Jan.
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Re: Very early signs of kidney failure

Post by Crewella »

Looking at the blood test results is a good start - it will help you to understand the issues.

If you can't feed prepared foods, I know a lot of people have had good results adding egg to foods for CKD cats - it mops up in a similar way to the binders. Below are links to Tanya's excellent website, both the blood test results page and the page on feeding, It's a lot of information, but very helpful and also mentions raw food.

http://www.felinecrf.org/diagnosis_blood_chemistry.htm

http://www.felinecrf.org/which_foods.htm
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Re: Very early signs of kidney failure

Post by Kris35 »

Thanks Crewella.
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Re: Very early signs of kidney failure

Post by Otokage »

Hi Kris,

My cat has had CDK for the past two years. Her biggest problem was that she would constantly throw up, even water, and this is how she was diagnosed with an early CDK. In her worst moments, she would throw up like once every two hours throughout the whole day, and then she would need to be given antiemetic shots for three consecutive days or it wouldn't stop. I also remember the horrible "twitching" that she appeared not to be aware of because I don't think it's painful, but I would have her on my lap and note the sudden trembling.

Today, you wouldn't be able to tell she has CDK :) She haven't thrown up in the last year except for the occasional hairball. I'm no vet, but I can tell you what it worked for me and you can try it for a short time to see if it works for you. What I did was:

First buy a high quality renal food. Most renal foods taste awful and cats will refuse to eat them, but a few seem to be very tasty, I know it's ugly to advertise, but I have tried soooooo many foods, and I find none can compare to Royal Canin Feline Renal RF23, from my cat's reaction it appears to have a very good flavour. Also it's pretty expensive to be honest, but my cat has never eaten a lot, so it lasts quite some time in my case :) Also giving your cat an expensive food means you should stop giving his/her treats :( (or keep them to "every once in a big while") or you could compromise the high quality diet. This will stabilize potassium (and other mineral) levels, and symptoms like twitching and bad/sad mood will be significaly reduced or directly disappear.

Second, one of the reasons why cats with CDK do not eat a lot, is because metabolic acidosis makes them have nausea and irritates their stomach. Because of this, you need to keep both to the minimum. First, you should brush your cat for 5-10 minutes at least once every three days, and ideally once a day in summer (cats can double their hair loss under heat). This will prevent the cat form throwing up hairballs. Also it's a good idea to season the cat's food with high quality oil (ie olive), as this will facilitates digestion and protects stomach walls.

Now, if your cat still barely eats and/or throws up, you will probably need to add an antiemetic to the food. Since you will have to do this every day, idealy forever, you don't want to use a medicine/drug (most of them can't be used forever without the risk of secondary effects). Use instead a natural treatment. I recommend slippery elm bark powder. You can find it on the internet (buy 100% powder, not mixed with anything). You can probably find like 100 grams for something around 20€. Don't worry, 100g can last a year or so. This is how I do it: you get around 35g of food, you season it with olive oil (or other high quality oil) and them you sprinkle some powder over it. It's difficult to tell how much powder you need because the quanity is so minimal that my bascule doesn't detect it, but it's around 1/5 of a teaspoon. Mix everything to the point that the powder is not visible anymore. Now it's ready to be fed to your cat (remove the regular food dish to force him eat this new medicine dish). Do this every day, ideally in the same timing (i do it late in the afternoon because my cat eats mostly at night, so I need her stomach to be in good shape :)) I started seeing results after a week or so, and in my case, I never imagined that a natural treatment would be so incredibly effective at preventing vomiting.

And that's what I do with my lovely cat!

Hope it helped and remember keeping the vet informed about what you do!
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Re: Very early signs of kidney failure

Post by Kris35 »

Hi Otokage,

Thanks for this information. My darling has had chronic diarrhea for two years - including anal leakage, so I have to be very careful what I feed her - raw seems to be the best for her but Im going to look into the food you mention here, plus the olive oil and slippery elm. Ive got some slippery elm here as it goes. My cat is never sick. I just posted a new thread asking if anyone knows why my dear departed cat (and now my current old girl Oody) seems to bite her legs as if she has a sudden itch. I scratch it and she either gently bites my hand or her hind legs will start going up and down like she wants to scratch more. Not sure what it is but read in your post about the twitching and wondered if you can tell me more. What sort of twitching is it and do you know what it is? Thanks again.

Kris
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Re: Very early signs of kidney failure

Post by Kris35 »

Ok just did some research online and watched some videos and she has Feline Hyperesthesia. Never heard of it before.
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Re: Very early signs of kidney failure

Post by Otokage »

Hi Kris,

Feline hyperesthesia is a very rare disorder and the symptoms are common for other disorders too, so make sure you are not mistaken (better to check with the vet). My cat has had seasons in which she harmed herself due to excessive grooming, and if anything unusual is not seen in the skin (such as irritation , parasites ... ) this may be due to stress (do not worry because stress may not have anything to do you , it may be for example that the cat does not rest well during its sleep because of the discomfort causes by the kidney disease). I did nothing in particular to solve this issue (at least I'm not aware of doing anything :)), my cat stopped the excessive grooming by herself.

About twitching, this is something very common in cats with kidney disease but often owners do not notice it. A twitch is a sudden spasm that happens because the renal problem creates unbalances in the ions involved in neural communication, so the muscles tremble suddenly. Tremor is light and often not noticeable by observation, only if you have your hands on the cat you will notice that it suddenly trembled. In my case it was one very quick tremor, which may be repeated several times a day and even several times a hour, depending on how unbalanced ion levels are in that particular moment. In my case, approximately 2 months of renal food greatly improved the situation, (before feeding the new food, twitching happened every day, now there are whole months where I do not perceive it).

I'm sorry to hear about the diarrhea. I'm unfamiliar with that situation, but keep an eye on it while you are feeding the cat food with olive oil, because it occurs to me that oil might worsen the situation. If this happens, better to try the "recipe" without the oil and see what happens.

Hope your cat gets better soon :)
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Re: Very early signs of kidney failure

Post by issiandarchie+68 »

Kris35 wrote:Hi Otokage,

Thanks for this information. My darling has had chronic diarrhea for two years - including anal leakage, so I have to be very careful what I feed her - raw seems to be the best for her but Im going to look into the food you mention here, plus the olive oil and slippery elm. Ive got some slippery elm here as it goes. My cat is never sick. I just posted a new thread asking if anyone knows why my dear departed cat (and now my current old girl Oody) seems to bite her legs as if she has a sudden itch. I scratch it and she either gently bites my hand or her hind legs will start going up and down like she wants to scratch more. Not sure what it is but read in your post about the twitching and wondered if you can tell me more. What sort of twitching is it and do you know what it is? Thanks again.

Kris
Hi Kris, while I advocate a slick of olive oil for grooming and cleaning the anal area, I most definitely would not recommend putting it in your wee cats food, neither would I recommend slippery elm for a cat with chronic diarrhoea and anal leakage. Poor wee lamb, I know how sick I feel after one day of an upset tum, but two years? I think her food needs 'bulking' but not too much. At her advanced age, a small bowl of good quality dried food, even Royal Canin Fibre Response might help. Have you tried feeding her Royal Canin (honest I'm not advertising, I have a cat with Mega colon ) wet food chicken and rice? Easily digestible, the rice gently swells and 'cleans' through the bowel without the harshness of 'bran'. My Cody wouldn't touch any brand of renal food, not even when she was being rehydrated on diagnosis for CRF at the Vet. Believe me, we bought her every type known to man and then some! My remaining cat, Gandhi, has a habit of swiping his back leg up and down if I scratch behind his ear, as if it's attached by a bit of string, so I just don't do it. Neither do I scratch him at the base of his tail, most cats have a sensitive nerve just there and it's like an electric shock going through his spine, he hates it, so I just don't do that either.

I found your article interesting Otakage, my friend has also found Renal RF23 to be about the only food her old cat can eat with comfort, doesn't throw up after her supper, and yes, I agree, most renal wet food smells pretty disgusting, all the tasty bits having been removed. Odd that isn't it? A cat with CKD needs tempting, not repelling with food.

Issi
Kris35
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Re: Very early signs of kidney failure

Post by Kris35 »

Hi Otokcage,

Its strange. We didn't know about my other cats kidney failure until it was too late - but for a few months before that, she was - well - suddenly biting herself near her rear end and if I stroked her, I would see that ripple effect. Now my current cat is doing the same thing. I have to be very careful what I feed her because her body cannot tolerate any foods really. None. But foods with additives make her flare up and get crampy as well as the continuous diarrhea. My vets are all stumped as to what the problem is and I wont let her go under anaestetic at her age.

I have given her some slippery elm and it seems to have helped - I think maybe because it lines the poo coming out so is less painful for her. Now I have started to add Peridale to the mix, which I used before also. This should firm her poos up a bit. Anyhow, just been reading about potassium/phossphorous etc and think my girl needs another trip to the vet. I dont understand this ion inbalance - so will chat to the vet - did a quick search and seems to me she has less/more of an electoryte than she needs.

You are very knowledgable - thanks a lot.

Kris
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Re: Very early signs of kidney failure

Post by Kris35 »

Hi Issi (I hope you are doing ok?),

I have tried all kinds of combinations for my cat - nothing really works. Through trial and error the best for her is organic raw food. I am going to look at these recommendations but I don't think the ingredients in them will be good for her. To be honest, having tried so many variations over the last two years, I'm a little confused about the results because I have also added enzymes etc to the mix so not sure if these affected her or not.

I think I might be stressing her out washing her bum everyday (the outside area) and her legs. She hates it but it gets really bad. Love this girl soooo much.
When you say Gandhi has a habit of swiping his back legs as if on a piece of string - that is also what my Oody does. I have been frantically looking for any persistant fleas (or any fleas) by parting her fur as we do, and that is when the leg thing starts.

Also, Oody never throws up. She also eats a lot.

Sigh. I am dying to wash her back end right now but will have to leave it I think.
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Re: Very early signs of kidney failure

Post by issiandarchie+68 »

I'm doing OK thanks, Kris. The days are getting better but our plans to relocate to Spain scuppered by Brexit, quite a blow. The horrible churning in my stomach on waking every morning has gone, but oh how I does miss Cody and Armand. Just come back from a lovely lunch and a walk around the Botanic Gardens in West end of Glasgow, Gandhi didn't meet me at the door and I was overwhelmed with the loss of my darlings, memories of their joyous greetings, but, we have to keep on swimming don't we, otherwise we drown. I made the mistake of online reading a bereaved cat lovers lament for his lost companion, he was getting dogs abuse over his grief as he said it hurt almost as much as the loss of his elderly father. I got quite angry, why do these trolls think that one excludes the other? As I've often said, if we love, be it animal or human, we grieve in various degrees at their loss. Anyway, I've been thinking about you and poor wee Oody a lot. She's an old lady now isn't she and it's difficult to know what to do for the best, they can't tell us. I find as I age, my skin gets thinner, someone can take my arm and leave me with a blood blister, my skin tears very easily and I suppose it's the same with cats, nerves get nearer to the surface, more sensitive, but you are wise to keep an eye on her. I know what you mean about checking every little change in Oody, I was like that for quite a while with Gandhi after the loss of Cody especially, my hubby called me paranoid but the surprising thing is, he's never looked so healthy or been so active, in his old age being an only cat seems to suit him. He's just trotted in carrying his soft pink ball in his mouth, he wants a game of catch, I throw ..he brings..I throw..he brings..could go on for some time :).

Issi
Last edited by issiandarchie+68 on Mon Jul 18, 2016 9:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
Kris35
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Re: Very early signs of kidney failure

Post by Kris35 »

Ahhhhh Issi your post made me smile - the last bit - not the first. I was talking to my other friend last night. She lost her cat five years ago. I was there when his organs started to fail - before that he had been doing ok (which is why I don't want to leave it too late). We got the vet out within 15 minutes and he was pts. She came to stay with me for a week and was suicidal.....totally off the rails and not coping at all. It was awful to watch of course. But after a year she got a rescue dog. I asked her last night if she could have her darling cat back but would have to give her dog up - would she? She said No!! That and the way my other suicidal friend finally recovered to love another animal again gives me hope and I wanted to post it here. She actually said she is worse this time around at the thought of losing her dog. I never thought it would be possible in a million years.

And yes Oody is 18 and a half - but she seems a bit perkier today. She's going for bloods this week.

I feel sad for the people who don't understand the loss of an animal can be as gut wrenching as a human life.

(PS: Sorry, I voted Brexit).
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Re: Very early signs of kidney failure

Post by Otokage »

issiandarchie+68 wrote: I found your article interesting Otakage, my friend has also found Renal RF23 to be about the only food her old cat can eat with comfort, doesn't throw up after her supper, and yes, I agree, most renal wet food smells pretty disgusting, all the tasty bits having been removed. Odd that isn't it? A cat with CKD needs tempting, not repelling with food.
Issi
Yeah, it really is impressive Renal RF23. I've tried so many... Cats do not find low protrein foods smelly/tasty, so in principle renal foods (which are so low in protein) will never be tasty for them. I believe royal canin must have a "secret ingredient" to emulate the flavor of high protein foods and trick the cat into eating :)
Kris35 wrote:Hi Otokcage,
Its strange. We didn't know about my other cats kidney failure until it was too late - but for a few months before that, she was - well - suddenly biting herself near her rear end and if I stroked her, I would see that ripple effect. Now my current cat is doing the same thing. I have to be very careful what I feed her because her body cannot tolerate any foods really. None. But foods with additives make her flare up and get crampy as well as the continuous diarrhea. My vets are all stumped as to what the problem is and I wont let her go under anaestetic at her age.
I have given her some slippery elm and it seems to have helped - I think maybe because it lines the poo coming out so is less painful for her. Now I have started to add Peridale to the mix, which I used before also. This should firm her poos up a bit. Anyhow, just been reading about potassium/phossphorous etc and think my girl needs another trip to the vet. I dont understand this ion inbalance - so will chat to the vet - did a quick search and seems to me she has less/more of an electoryte than she needs.
You are very knowledgable - thanks a lot.
Kris
Thanks for the compliment :)

Nice to hear slippery is helping. Keep an eye on the cat throughout the month if you keep feeding it the elm, just to make sure it doesn’t create any problems with the diarrhea.
About the ion inbalances, the kidneys have the task of "hijacking" from the urine the minerals your body needs, before you excrete it. Therefore if the kidney is malfunctioning and not doing (or doing just partially) this task, ion levels in your body will not be adequate, causing a huge variety of symptoms, typically wrong neural communications (which leads to twitching for example). Hopefuly the vet will make your cat a blood test and so you will see, in numbers, what ions are giving the problem. Renal foods are made with the ion unbalances in mind and should fix the problem in time.
By the way I think you made a very good choice in not using anesthesia on your cat, as it can compromise liver function, especially in cats with kidney problems. Always choose deep sedation over anesthesia whenever possible.

And been reading a little bit about your conversation with Issi. I have to say that of course friend loss is devastating! Whether the friend is an animal or a human :). My cat has been my close friend since I was ten years old, my sister I consider her, I watched her grow, she watched me grow. Whenever she passes away, I will cry my heart out for sure, and I believe any sane person would do the same.

Keep the good work you are doing with your cats! :)
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Re: Very early signs of kidney failure

Post by Kris35 »

Hi Otokage,

She hasn't had the blood test yet. I took her off the Peridale (poo thickener) as she seemed to go downhill slightly. This is embarrassing but I got a flea comb yesterday and yup - she has fleas - not many - BUT lots of flea droppings!!!!! That might be why she was biting herself!! I am now combing her thoroughly in stages which she is liking. Also got some Frontline!!

She still does that thing where I scratch her somewhere on her body (anywhere really) and her leg starts going back and forth as if attached to a piece of string.

I will report her blood results this week......will know more once that is done.

Thanks sooo much for your time.

Kris :)
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