Kidney disease and diet

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risotto
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Kidney disease and diet

Post by risotto » Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:12 pm

I took Toby to the vet as he's become fussy with food and drinking a lot more. Vet has taken bloods and it's his kidneys. She has given him some Royal Canin renal pouches and I can buy them online cheaper if I want. His sister had Royal Canin for something else, eat about 14 pouches and wouldn't touch it again, so I'm nervous - also, thinking about the cost. I just want to know what others options I have - what other wet renal products can I try? If he won't eat renal food, are there any ordinary wet cat foods that may be a little better for him? I've been giving him a little milk, cat milk, cat treats, anything I can get down him over the last month if he's starved himself for hours - can he have any of these or other similar treats to get something down him? Can he have cooked chicken? Also, I gave him a tiny amount of my omelette which got his appetite going the other day Can he have any form of egg? I now fear some of the foods I've been giving so he would eat are causing more harm than good.

I know I've asked loads of questions, so please only answer what anyone can or if you have any general comments that would be great.

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Re: Kidney disease and diet

Post by MarkB » Sat Mar 11, 2017 12:05 am

I have had 4 cats over the years with kidney disease.None of them were crazy about renal pouches. Senior food is a good compromise. I used to feed mine Felix senior, which is lower in phosphorus than the adult version. I also used to add a measure of ipakitine, which works as a phosphorus binder, to reduced absoprtion of it. I think itworkedout at about 10p a dose, which still makes a meal a lot cheaper than renal food + the cats get to enjoy their favourites. Egg yolk is very high in phosphorus, so I would limit the amount given. The bottom line is any food is better than no food and quality of life needs to come into it. Chicken is also quite high in phosphorus, but Clapton had some every day - I also used to mix some ipakitine into it. Most cats will happily eat food with it mixed in as it is made from ground mollusc shells.

I think a measure is 1g, so gives you an idea. Worth checking if it is cheaper elsewhere http://www.animeddirect.co.uk/ipakitine ... -180g.html

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Re: Kidney disease and diet

Post by risotto » Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:23 am

Marks, thanks for your reply, it good to get information from someone who (unfortunately for them) has experience. Can you remember how long any of your survived after diagnosis? I didn't realise there were various stages, so I haven't asked vet yet where he is.

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Re: Kidney disease and diet

Post by Ruth B » Sat Mar 11, 2017 11:12 am

When our Ragdoll was about 12 or 13 years old he developed a problem with his teeth and as a general measure before doing the dental they gave him full blood tests to check if there was any other problems that might affect the anesthetic, he was fine for that, but they did pick up kidney problems and suggested putting him on the special diet which they would order in for him. When we took him back for a post dental check up we saw a different vet (slightly more experienced I think) and he mentioned that of the 3 tests that show kidney problems 1 was fine, and two were only showing the early stages. He didn't think the special food was really necessary and recommended trying to keep him on a lower protein diet and regular monitoring, which is what we did. He had blood tests every three months for 12 to 18 months then it went to every 6 months then stopped altogether as the kidneys had recovered. He lived to well over 16 years old and never had a kidney problem again. For him the strain of the infected teeth were putting a strain on the rest of his system and once that was cleared up the kidneys could recover. He always drank a lot of water which helped particularly as he always prefered the dried food (even with virtually no teeth) and he never had a special diet.

Opinions seemed to have changed a bit since then and the thought seems to be that it isn't just the quantity of protein it is also the quality that matters as cats get most of their nourishment from animal products and very little from anything else. Check the boxes of cat food for nutritional information, protein levels seem to vary from about 8% to 15%, if yours will eat them then try for the lower protein levels, however in the end it is better he eat something and cats will almost starve themselves if they don't get what they want.

Hopefully Toby will recover or at least stabilize and can still have many more happy years.

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Re: Kidney disease and diet

Post by risotto » Sat Mar 11, 2017 4:49 pm

Thanks Ruth and I'm glad your boy recovered. Toby is 17 years old, so something like this is fully expected at his age. I'm slowly introducing him to the renal pouches, so far as good. Strangely he's not drinking like he was and eating better and I don't believe one pouch a day would make a difference. His sister was an a different kind of Royal Canin and went off it after about 18 pouches so we'll see.

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Re: Kidney disease and diet

Post by Crewella » Sat Mar 11, 2017 7:55 pm

I've had several older cats with renal issues and none of them have much liked the prescription diets. I've tended to compromise with renal dry and a mixture of senior pouches/tins and the odd prescription pouch. I always feed a mixture of wet and dry anyway, and the dry versions of the prescription foods seem to be more easily accepted than the wet. Several have gone on for a few years on this regime, so hopefully your lad will too. xx

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Re: Kidney disease and diet

Post by Janey » Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:06 pm

I’ve had a few cats with renal problems, they’ve all been quite old when we adopted them, and they didn’t like the prescription foods; my vet said better they ate something, even if it’s not what’s best for them as not eating is worse. I just gave mine what they wanted and they lived a few years without any special diet too. Hopefully Toby will continue to enjoy the food but try not to worry too much if not. Fusses to your boy xx

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Re: Kidney disease and diet

Post by Antonio » Sun Mar 12, 2017 6:36 pm

When my elder cat was diagnosed with CKD in 2006 we began this new renal diet but we had to try some different brands. The one she liked the most was Royal Canin Renal pouches Tuna. This was until I was advised with Trovet Renal chicken. There had been no turning back from this and the dry food of the same type was highly appreciated. I have been feeding these two foods for five years with excellent results. Buying them online would be some 20% cheaper.
Now, due to a severe and different situation, I have had to change diet.
Of course a medical support, like a daily tablet and sub-Q three times a week, has been of major help.

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Re: Kidney disease and diet

Post by risotto » Mon Mar 13, 2017 5:05 pm

Thanks for your further replies. He's eating the renal food, but the novelty is wearing off and he's not so enthusiastic. I just picked some more food up from the vet (I don't want to order it in bulk online until I'm sure he'll continue eating it) and she said to at least try other brands or if not a high quality protein wet food (so I'll look out for low protein high quality versions if I can find them!).

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Re: Kidney disease and diet

Post by booktigger » Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:53 pm

When Buster started getting fussy, I gave him half a pouch of renal and half a pouch of senior per meal which worked. His favourite was the RC tuna

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Re: Kidney disease and diet

Post by Jan » Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:58 pm

Initially we tried Blackie on the RC renal food but he wouldn't eat it and I ended up feeling very stressed over it. He would happily lick up the juice but that's all. As Blackie was at early stage CKD the vet decided that letting him eat his favourite food (Felix AGAIL) with added Ipakitine was the way to go. That was almost 2 years ago now and his last blood/urine tests indicated an improvement in his kidney function. Even the IDEXX SDMA kidney function test showed results within normal limits. He also has a lot of added warmed water with his wet food which helps his kidneys too.

I do sneak in a RC renal pouch every once in a while - one bowlful is all I can get down him. His nose is well and truly turned up if I have the cheek to put down another one later on in the day

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Re: Kidney disease and diet

Post by risotto » Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:07 pm

Thanks for your further replies. Jan, while searching online I've come across a lot of CKD cats who like Felix AGAIL and wonder if other owners are putting their cats on it as perhaps it has slightly less phosphorus. I've heard some don't like the phosphorus binders, but I'll certainly be trying some if I need to.

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Re: Kidney disease and diet

Post by booktigger » Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:22 pm

Lucy has been diagnosed with early stage kidney failure today, my vet only suggests changing the dry - it tends to be more palatable and she's had cats go back within normal limits on it, as have I. I'm picking up a bag of one that also contains glucosamine and condrotin this week, I'll post details

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Re: Kidney disease and diet

Post by MarkB » Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:19 am

Our longest survivor was Clapton - 5 years from diagnosis. It really. I don't think there is any kind of guide. I only got to try it near the end with one of mine (Lazarus), but my vet swears by Semintra. He says it stops the disease in its tracks, but I have since read that it is only suitable for cats who are losing protein in their urine (proteinuria) but I really don't know. Clapton wasn't generally a fussy eater, but he point blank refused to eat renal pouches. He ate some renal dry (Hill's K/D) but mostly Felix senior pouches and Tesco own pouches in jelly. He also loved his chicken and fish,so I allowed him a small treat meal. I always mixed a measure of ipakitine into wet meals (Including his chicken and fish)

PS- re the phosphorus binders. There was another binder on the market, which I found that some cats refused to eat food with it mixed in. It was called Renalzin and the active ingredient was Lanthanum, which is supposed to be more effective at binding phosphorus.......but, as it wasn't going down well, I reverted to Ipakitine, which is made from ground mollusc shells and calcium. I never had a problem with cats refusing to eat food with it mixed in. Renalzin seems to have been taken off the market anyway.

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Re: Kidney disease and diet

Post by Antonio » Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:16 pm

MarkB wrote: PS- re the phosphorus binders. There was another binder on the market, which I found that some cats refused to eat food with it mixed in. It was called Renalzin and the active ingredient was Lanthanum, which is supposed to be more effective at binding phosphorus
I bought it many years ago. It had a disgusting smell and taste (yes, I always taste any kind of food, supplement or medicine I have to give to my cats prior to giving it to them :D ) and no wonder that my cats fled the bowls.
I tried no other binders, I only fed renal food to them. Actually only one cat has CKD, but I have had to switch both cats to the same diet.

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Re: Kidney disease and diet

Post by bobbys girl » Wed Mar 15, 2017 3:29 pm

MarkB wrote:Our longest survivor was Clapton - 5 years from diagnosis. It really. I don't think there is any kind of guide. I only got to try it near the end with one of mine (Lazarus), but my vet swears by Semintra. He says it stops the disease in its tracks, but I have since read that it is only suitable for cats who are losing protein in their urine (proteinuria) but I really don't know. Clapton wasn't generally a fussy eater, but he point blank refused to eat renal pouches. He ate some renal dry (Hill's K/D) but mostly Felix senior pouches)
Tommy was on Semintra - I wouldn't say it 'stops it in it's tracks', but I'm sure it did help. Tom hated any of the renal mixes wet or dry. He did like Felix AGAIL and adored meat of any description, beef being a favourite.

As has been already said, you get to a point when if they are eating ANYTHING it's a bonus.

Judy - if you are reading this you may have some good advice to give ...?

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Re: Kidney disease and diet

Post by MarkB » Wed Mar 15, 2017 4:26 pm

I would definitely recommend trying some Ipakitine, as the only taste or odour might be a bit fishy, but I never noticed anything. I haven't actually tried it myself, but I had always tasted meds :lol:

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Re: Kidney disease and diet

Post by Jan » Wed Mar 15, 2017 5:34 pm

MarkB wrote: my vet swears by Semintra. He says it stops the disease in its tracks, but I have since read that it is only suitable for cats who are losing protein in their urine (proteinuria) but I really don't know. Clapton wasn't generally a fussy eater, but he point blank refused to eat renal pouches. He ate some renal dry (Hill's K/D) but mostly Felix senior pouches and Tesco own pouches in jelly. He also loved his chicken and fish,so I allowed him a small treat meal. I always mixed a measure of ipakitine into wet meals (Including his chicken and fish)
I asked our vet about Semintra when Blackie had his last urine test but her reply was that as Blackie wasn't proteinuric at the moment there is no need to start him on it. His UPC ratio does seem to go up + down a bit - but has never yet gone into the 'definite proteinuric' range.

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Re: Kidney disease and diet

Post by risotto » Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:07 pm

Thanks so much for the further replies, everything is really helpful either for now or possibly for the future.

He's still eating the Royal Canin (although leaving some) so I've put in an order now in the hope he doesn't go off it. Sometimes it's going to be easier to feed both my cats the same (ie in the morning they're both asking for food straight away) so I'm going to get some Ipakitine so I haven't got them fighting over different foods.

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Re: Kidney disease and diet

Post by greenkitty » Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:44 am

Tig is on Semintra for protein in his urine and it has been successful, his last urine test showed it was back within the normal range. (Tig has PKD).

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Re: Kidney disease and diet

Post by booktigger » Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:30 am

Out of curiosity, how old was Tig when he was diagnosed?

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Re: Kidney disease and diet

Post by TheCatsMum » Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:02 pm

Risotto and booktigger, can I ask you how your getting on with the renal foods for yours? I've tried Royal Canin wet (all flavours) and dry and ProPlan. He will pick at the Royal Canin. I'm really struggling as he had gone off his old foods. the vet has suggested a high quality cat food instead and not quite sure what to choose.

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Re: Kidney disease and diet

Post by booktigger » Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:14 pm

I only picked Lucy's up on Sat and it is going down well, but she's never turned dry food down. The brand is called Farmina, Vet Life.
If he's being picky with renal, I'd give him senior

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Re: Kidney disease and diet

Post by TheCatsMum » Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:20 am

booktigger, thanks for your reply. He was eating some Whiskers senior before being diagnosed so will try that again. Will get some Felix senior as well. Can anyone suggest a better quality senior cat food, as I know these two brands are thought to be low quality.

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Re: Kidney disease and diet

Post by booktigger » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:34 pm

There are brands with higher meat content, but unfortunately they also have a higher protein content, so not ideal for cats with kidney issues.

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Re: Kidney disease and diet

Post by Kay » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:48 pm

lots of info here http://www.felinecrf.org/which_foods.htm

homemade might be an option too - if you google 'homemade diet for CRF cats' you will find some ideas

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Re: Kidney disease and diet

Post by greenkitty » Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:38 pm

booktigger wrote:Out of curiosity, how old was Tig when he was diagnosed?
He was 5 when he was diagnosed with PKD, he kept getting cystitis and on a routine feel of his abdomen the vet thought he could feel abnormally large kidneys and that was how it started..

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Re: Kidney disease and diet

Post by risotto » Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:58 pm

TheCatsMum, he will eat some of the RC pouches - I can just about get a couple down him with encouragement, so I'll continue with this for as long as possible. His sister hasn't been eating her usual stuff so well, so I've changed her over to Felix AGAIl senior, especially as it's hard to keep him totally away with her food. With eating this as well, he's eating better than he has a while which is a relief as he's quite bony now.

I plan to continue with the Royal Canin renal for as long as he'll take it with some Felix AGAIl senior - can I improve on this?

Does anyone know if chicken is low/high in phosphorus and the same for protein - he used to love this but I haven't given him any since being diagnosed and would be good as a treat?

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Re: Kidney disease and diet

Post by Lilith » Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:12 pm

TheCatsMum wrote: Can anyone suggest a better quality senior cat food, as I know these two brands are thought to be low quality.
Hi there, recently I bought a couple of packs of this stuff for giving meds in/as a treat, simply because 2 of mine are oldies.

http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/shop/gb/gro ... 5g#reviews

The link gives ingredients/breakdown/reviews. It's a complete food. Comes in meat flavours too and as individual tins.

Mine haven't tried it yet but they're a greedy lot; I reckon they'll enjoy it, and it's a pate - no lumps they can lick the jelly off. SEEMS to be cereal-free, and so it should be at that price.

So might be worth a try - do hope you and everyone else find something to tempt your guys :)

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Re: Kidney disease and diet

Post by Melinda » Sun May 28, 2017 6:31 pm

I have Renalzin 50 ml available, it is also on the UK ebay site. It has been helpful for the last couple of years. When I heard that it was being discontinued I invested and bought twice the amount I thought we would need. My cat is still doing ok, however she is in the decline. She is 19 and has had kidney disease for more than five years. She will eat it once a day with a small spoon of Weruva La Isla Bonita & hot water.

Lately we are using the g/d vet food mixed with hot water to keep stomach upset in check and she prefers this plain with nothing added. I do think it is the best binder for us and would recommend it for others. You can contact me for more information.

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