Recent diagnosis of diabetes

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Sue 123
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Recent diagnosis of diabetes

Post by Sue 123 »

My cat (male 7 yrs old) has recently been diagnosed with diabetes, we have caught it early and his liver/kidney blood tests were all ok, just the glucose issue. He is on 1 and a half measures of insulin twice a day. He has been on insulin for 7 days, his food is unchanged at 1 sachet twice a day to coincide with the injections and biscuits available throughout the day. He is still drinking more than normal and he is definitely a bit miserable. He goes back to the vet next week. I would have thought he would maybe be drinking a bit less after 7 days on the insulin, or is this too soon? Also, I am wondering if I should be changing his food to high protein low carb although vet said to leave it as it is for the moment which I can understand as I guess the insulin dosage is based on what he currently eats. Any advice/experience greatly appreciated. Vet did say that as he has been caught early and is on a low insulin dose that we may be able to manage it with diet.
Thanks, Sue
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Re: Recent diagnosis of diabetes

Post by booktigger »

I've got no experience of diabetes, but I have read to avoid dry food with it - if they are snacking throughout the day, it could be affecting his glucose levels.
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Kay
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Re: Recent diagnosis of diabetes

Post by Kay »

I've sent a message to someone who has quite a thorough experience of caring for diabetic cats, and I hope she will be able to advise you
Sue 123
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Re: Recent diagnosis of diabetes

Post by Sue 123 »

Thank you both. Kay - I will keep a watch for your friend offering advice. I will update my post with his progress.
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Ruth B
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Re: Recent diagnosis of diabetes

Post by Ruth B »

While not the person Kay mentioned, I have heard quite a lot about looking after a diabetic cat as my Mother's cat has been diabetic for several years.

The first thing I will say is that while it is very tying, having to do the injections every day, twice a day at pretty much the same time, once it is controlled it seems to stay controlled fairly easily.

Has your vet said anything about doing blood tests on your cat to check the glucose levels yourself. The technique is very similar as that used by a human diabetic (I'm actually diabetic and have tested my self numerous times). You have a glucose meter and test strip, prick the cats ear to get a drop of blood (which can be the hardest part), put the blood on the test strip and the meter will give a spot reading as to the glucose level current at that point. I know at one point my parents were having to do this every hour or two for a day every few months to get what was know as a glucose curve, this would show how the cat was reacting to the injected insulin and to the food eaten. These are things that you might want to ask your vet about next visit. The spot test can also be used just before the insulin injection to check that you are giving the correct amount. The other reason to know how to check the blood glucose is if anything goes wrong and your cat behaves in an odd manner as this could indicate its glucose level is too high or too low and the symptoms are very hard to differentiate, checking the actual glucose level is the best option, you will then know whether they need more insulin or a dose of glucose.

As far as food goes the most important ingredient is good quality animal proteins. Cats in general can't digest carbohydrates well so virtually all their nutrients and energy come from the animal proteins. While the vet may say it isn't too important yet, in my opinion it is always best to feed a good quality cat food high in animal proteins to any cat. Check the nutritional values on the packs, of the normal ones Felix As Good as it Looks and Kitten Food tend to be the highest at 14 - 15%, dried food may appear higher but that is because wet food has to take the water content into account with its percentage. If yours likes dried food then there is no problem with them having it. The main thing however is to have something the cat will eat,if it is refusing to eat what is available and you keep injecting the insulin then it is in danger of going into a hypoglycemic, (hyperglycemic is when the blood sugar is too high and it needs more insulin, the terms are a bit too close for my comfort). If you really want to spoil your cat, and it will eat it, a meal of raw meat once a day would certainly do no harm and will certainly help it get the animal proteins it needs, just remember that cheap meat is actually better for cats, a bit of skin, bone, fat and gristle are all beneficial. Whether you want to go with one of the special diets is between you, your vet and the cat. i know a lot of cats that have been put on special diets for various medical reasons and then refuse to eat it, it is better for a diabetic cat to eat something, even if it isn't the best quality, than for it to go on hunger strike.

Finally I will say that my Mother's cat has been diabetic for quite some time and apart from having to have regular injections you would never know anything was wrong. There is no reason for yours to have anything but a long and happy life
Sue 123
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Re: Recent diagnosis of diabetes

Post by Sue 123 »

Thanks Ruth, Lots of useful info. Vet hasn't mentioned home testing but I have read a lot about it on various websites so I will ask when he goes back next week. He spent a day at the vets for glucose curve last week and he is on what they said was a low dose of insulin, it's probably about a small drop's worth twice a day.
I have got him some tins and sachets of high protein food, Applaws and Encore which I combine with his (preferred) Felix. He's eating quite well, he has always been a good eater. He will eat some fresh food too, so I will make sure he has more of that. He does love his dried food too, I have bought him some high protein biscuits, Applaws and Lily's Kitchen which I have half and half'ed initially with his usual James Welbeloved and Royal Canin.
I am ok with the injections, he's a very laid back cat and has put up with me fumbling around very patiently so far.
Thank you for all your information, I am hoping we can get him stabilised so he can enjoy life again. I will let you know how he gets on at the vets next week.
Rgds, Sue
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Kay
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Re: Recent diagnosis of diabetes

Post by Kay »

Liz has lost her log in details, but has sent me this answer to your original query, Sue

"My 4 Diabetics

Tiger Feral diagnosed aged 8 - on 3 and 3 and was stable within 3 months, we never changed to diabetic food as we have a multi household.

Next our Sweetie diagnosed aged 18 along with a host of other things but on 2 and 1 and stable within a month it was the one condition we could control

Number 3 was Millie she came aged 15 and 3kgs overweight she looked like a tortie shaped rugby ball came for palliative care and was given 3 months she was on 5 and 5 right to the end, she lasted another 2.5 years and was our old dribble chops she was also at her ideal weight

Number 4 is Donnie the dumper aged 15 he was going to be PTS as CP couldn't stabilise him so when asked we said we would take him and the cost that they could ill afford - he is now on 1 and 1 after a very severe hypo that when tested showed no glucose at all in his body, 8 hours on a drip sorted him out and he is now stable but the first I have to let eat wait half an hour and then inject

Its early days yet for your baby and as with medication it may need tweaked up or down I think they usually start on 2 and 1 and then its tweaked by the vets blood tests and sugar curves

I do not do home testing and ours get a full MOT once a year and a blood panel done but do visit the vets twice a year outside this for boosters and Program injections.

Ours get 3 to 4 sachets of wet food a day and have dry down for nibbling and we noticed that they prefer to have 2 grit boxes as boy can they wee so to speak. We also have water fountains and water bowls and find this keeps them happy. We up the wet food and weigh the biscuits as the biscuits can make them drink more anyway"
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Ruth B
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Re: Recent diagnosis of diabetes

Post by Ruth B »

My parents were advised to check the blood themselves as Tufty's diabetes came on very suddenly. She collapsed one evening, went to the emergency vet with no idea of what was wrong, and not even sure she would make it through the night. They did the blood tests straight away and realised it was diabetes, gave her the insulin and by the next morning she was a lot better and by the afternoon she was ready to go home. My parents were both medically trained and knew the vet very well so that may have affected the decision. In the first few weeks they did have to keep testing before they did the injection to make sure she wasn't given too much or not enough. They did have her in at the vets once to do the full curve, but Tufty was so stressed out at being at the vets the curve came out as a flat line, another reason why it was better done at home. I think she is on about 2.25 of what ever units are used for the insulin, morning and evening. Dried food and of course water is always available.
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Walesgang
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Re: Recent diagnosis of diabetes

Post by Walesgang »

Sarah's boy Edgar is diabetic.

I will ask her to post any advice she can give.

What I would say is that with support and treatment, there is no reason why your kitties shouldn't live a normal, healthy life. Edgar certainly does. :D
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SarahT1 [PLLE]
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Re: Recent diagnosis of diabetes

Post by SarahT1 [PLLE] »

Yes, my boy Edgar, aged now at maybe around 10/11 (ex feral so approximate), was diagnosed in September 2014. He was part of a study at the RVC for a year was which useful as he was trialled on glargine rather than staying on caninsulin. He is still on twice a day. He didn't like staying in the vet for a curve so now he has a fructosamine blood test every three months. He has never got close to remission but he is a happy, healthy boy, full of life and love, our only boy with three sisters who he adores. He has a hugh protein/prescription diet. Hopefully he will be with us for many years to come. I think your boy will be in remission quickly. You are doing all the right things and you have great support.
Sue 123
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Re: Recent diagnosis of diabetes

Post by Sue 123 »

Many thanks everyone for all your advice. I hope all your girls and boys continue to do well and stay happy. Everything I have read (and I have read bucketloads these last few days!) is saying diet is crucial and low carb/high protein is the way to go. I have studied all the info on the various food, wet and dry, at Pets at Home and Will is now over half way to being on Encore, Applaws and AATU, all of which are high protein. I am concerned that I might have contributed to the onset of his diabetes as 12 months ago I moved him to 'appetite control' and 'satiety food' as vet said he was half a kilo overweight. Reading the info on these shows they are carb heavy (and full of additives). He is a very big cat, his paws are almost the size of my palms, and when he's laying down he's over 3 feet long. He definitely seems to have cheered up over the last few days. He goes back to the vets this afternoon, I will update with the result of his visit.
Thanks everyone, all advice gratefully received.
Regards, Sue and Will
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Re: Recent diagnosis of diabetes

Post by booktigger »

If you are looking at the wet Applaws/Encore, do check the labels as most are complimentary so can't be fed as a sole diet
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Shortbread
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Re: Recent diagnosis of diabetes

Post by Shortbread »

Hiya,

I wanted to give you my experience on this. My old cat Tiss was diagnosed with fulminant diabetes at age 14 a couple of months ago, she went into a crisis, got hospitalised, nearly died and then pulled back from the brink. All withing 14h of being a bit unwell. Uuurgh. However, the upshot was the vet told me to blind dose her with 1IU unit of insulin twice a day and leave it at that for care. It was the worst advice ever, as she reacted very badly to insulin and became hypo at the slightest whisper of it. I had to under dose her or she went clinically hypo. Anyway, I was terrified of damaging her, so went on and joined this forum:

http://www.diabeticcatcare.com/forum/index.php

The woman in charge of this site is a vet who specialises in cat diabetes, she'll do a skype consultation for a fee. But she's put all her experience on the site in what is referred to as the "College of knowledge" to show you what to do when etc....You have to apply to join he site to go on their forums, but it was a life saver for my Tiss. She was in grave danger from hypos from the insulin, so I had to get her under control.

So following their advice I took control of her diet...wet food only as dry contains too many carbs. They say wet food MUST be below 10% carbs, high in protein (over 50%) and about 20-40% fat. But to get them under control the carbs need to be 8% or under. I did blood tests on Tiss, and even on insulin she was still out of control. The very night I started her on 8% carb food (high protein and fat) her BG dropped 9 points to almost normal. It had never dropped till that point. Within 4d she was within normal ranges and OFF insulin!!! She stayed that way for a month, but in the end we had to get her put down due to lots of other issues. I saw that she was under control from her lack of constant drinking and the excessive amounts of wee in her box went down to normal. There are lots of useful videos on youtube regarding taking blood drops from a cat's ear in order to do a BG test. I'm happy to help if you decide to go down this route. Getting her under control made a huge difference to her health and happiness for the short time we had her after her diagnosis. Once she was off the insulin and BG under control she looked so much happier and alert.

Good luck, and happy to answer any Qs if you have any.
Heather x

Here's a list of foods vet approved in the UK for high protein (animal only, no veg protein), proper fats levels and low carb for all cats, not just diabetic ones.

At the Supermarket:

The following food labels show no vegetable or tapioca or sugars on them:

SHEBA - Tender Terrine with Salmon = 3.88 % carb

Sheba Tender Terrine with Beef = 3.9%

Sheba Adult with Beef in succulent jelly = 4.1%

Sheba Adult with Cod in succulent jelly = 4.1%

Toplife Chicken Dinner-tetrapak – 8.8 % dry matter carbs, made in conjunction with Bozita, at Asda

The following foods are below 10% carbs, BUT contain vegetable matter in some form - either Derivatives of Vegetable Origin or vegetable protein extracts and/or various sugars/glucose :

FELIX – Senior mixed selection in Jelly – Pouches - Lamb, Rabbit, Tuna, Trout, Beef, Chicken, Turkey, Salmon = 8.8 % carbs

HiLife Essentials Turkey & Giblets 85g can – 2.3 % dry matter carbs, Asda

HiLife Essentials Salmon Pate 85g can - 2.3 % dry matter carbs, Asda

Hi Life Petit Pates are now discontinued (Oct 2012) Replaced with Hi Life Tempt Me - available in Salmon and Tuna, Chicken and Duck, Turkey and lamb - 4.5% carbs
Protein 11.0%, Fat Content 7.0%, Crude Fibres 0.5%, Inorganic Matter 2.5%, Moisture 78.0%.

SHEBA - Tender Terrine with Turkey and Chicken = 3.88 % carbs

SHEBA – with Salmon in succulent Jelly - looks to be two different recipes in the shops, 6.6 % and 4.1 % dry matter carb content

SHEBA - Desire – Fish Fillets in Jelly = 3.1 % carbs

Sheba Alu Tray Cuts In Jelly Chicken 100G = 6.66 % carbs

SHEBA - Tender Terrine with Rabbit and Chicken = 8.94 % carbs

SHEBA - Tender Terrine with Duck and Goose = 8.94 % carbs

SHEBA WITH CHICKEN – MEATY CHUNKS = 8.5 % carbs

Felix Foils - 100g - Fish Selection in Jelly - Turkey & Smoked Salmon, Tuna & Trout, Cod & Haddock. - 5.8 % carbs

FELIX – As good as it looks – (pouches) favourites selection in Jelly - Chicken, Beef, Tuna, Salmon = 6.5 % carbs

FELIX – Senior Fish Selection in Jelly – (pouches) Tuna, Salmon, Trout, Sardine = 7.5 % carbs

Felix As Good As It Looks Senior Pouch Mixed Variety in Jelly Cat Food 100gm 12 Pack = 7.5%

Gourmet Gold Senior Pate – Beef, Ocean Fish, Liver, Turkey = 7.66 % carbs

Gourmet Gold Pate - Turkey, Ocean Fish, Liver, Chicken, Beef = 8.2%

Waitrose Fish Selection in Jelly: Carbs = 2.8%
Ingredients: Meat and animal derivatives (14% of the relevant fish), Minerals, Various Sugars, Oils and Fats, Derivatives of Vegetable Origin

Waitrose Organic Tender & Tasty Terrine Rich in Lamb: Carbs = 5.3%
Ingredients: Meat and animal derivatives (14% lamb), Minerals, Various Sugars, Oils and Fats, Derivatives of Vegetable Origin

The following foods contain tapioca, or tapioca starch:

Hi Life Perfection Tuna and Seafood Can = 3.00 % carbs
Composition:
Tuna Wholemeat (min.50%), Mixed Seafood (min.6%), Tapioca

Pets at Home Seriously Good Chicken with Beef – 80 grams = 2.77 % dry carbs
Ingredient(s):
Chicken (min. 45%), Beef (min. 4%), Tapioca Starch

Pets at Home Seriously Good Cat Pouch - Meat Selection 6x85g = 3.03 %
Ingredient(s):
Chicken Flakes in Jelly Chicken Flakes (min. 49%), Minerals, Tapioca Starch.
Chicken Flakes with Liver in Jelly, Chicken Flakes (min. 45%), Liver (min. 4%), Minerals, Tapioca Starch.
Sue 123
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Re: Recent diagnosis of diabetes

Post by Sue 123 »

So sorry to hear about Tiss, it's always devastating to lose one of your family.
Thank you for all the information and the list of ok foods. Everything I have read and been advised is pointing to food being crucial, I have almost managed to get Will changed over to high protein. I am going to take a look at the website you mentioned and see if I can join the forum. Will's insulin was increased by half a measure on his blood results last week, he goes back next week for the whole day to be monitored. I'm still concerned about the amount he is drinking during the day, he will only drink outdoors (he's always been like this). He is locked in at dusk, and curiously doesn't appear to drink overnight or use his litter box overnight. He's also not his usual jolly self so is obviously not feeling great.
Will update next week after vet's visit.
Good luck to everyone dealing with their cat's diabetes, I hope they all make progress and can enjoy life.
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Guinevere
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Re: Recent diagnosis of diabetes

Post by Guinevere »

Hi Sue, I have a diabetic cat diagnosed a couple of years ago. The vet will only up the insulin by small increments so it might take a while to get to the ideal dose. For my cat, the dose went up and up and up and so did her blood sugar until it was off the scale! After 6 months, it was deemed that animal insulin wasn't working so now she is on human insulin! and has one injection daily and her bloods are now perfect.

I understand it is a real difficult time at the beginning, but once it is all under control you will be able to manage it well.
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Re: Recent diagnosis of diabetes

Post by smeloy »

Aaaw so sorry to hear about that. My cat was 7 when I got him and weighed 1.5 st! So diabetes was on the cards and later after he was dieted he ended up on insulin. I had him on diabetic food hoping that alone was enough along with his weight loss. It was too late for him and he was on high amounts of insulin. He didn't slow his drinking down, and was extremely obsessed with food! The vet did the same with him starting him off low. It was difficult at first but he did get used to it. He had bad health problems just due to his weight already. You have early and my vet said in some cases they can recover.
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