Stage 4 kidney disease and diet

[Oceanforestgirl]

Hi, I have been reading these forums for most of the day, and have learned so much! Thank you! I have a lovely cat who just started acting a bit ‘off’ recently. I took her to the vet and she was there 3 days and nights, and was diagnosed with stage 4 kidney disease. She was a stray who found and adopted me as a young cat, so I don’t know her exact age but I’ve had her 13 years so she is at least 13 and up to 15 (she was malnourished, had worms and was tiny when I found her so I’m assuming closer to 13). I will be hydrating her for the next 2 weeks with subcutaneous drip and then have a follow up appointment. My cat seems happy to be home and has eaten a bit (maybe 2 tablespoons for a 8 lb cat). I don’t think she will take to the renal food (K/d care science diet) and I am looking for a list of options. I realize she may not have a lot of time left, but she is still very happy and is not very lathargic so I have hope that we can get things moving again. I would REALLY value any advice and tips on foods. She usually is obsessed with eating as she was starving when I found her. Thank you cat loving friends! Kitty (yes, that is her name) thanks you too!

[fjm]

There is evidence that a low potassium diet really helps with late stage kidney disease. If she refuses the commercial versions, you could look at www.dogaware.com for ideas - it is for dogs, of course, but has very useful tables of protein, calories and potassium for various meats and other proteins to help in developing diets for animals with kidney disease. Talk to your vet, of course - they may be able to suggest commercial alternatives she likes better.

[booktigger]

Sorry to hear about your cat, hopefully you can buy her some quality time. Have they suggested medication as she is Stage 4? There are lots of different renal foods around now, most seem more appealing than Hills, and renal dry seems much more palatable than wet. Senior is the next best alternative, and you can get phosphorus binders to make their normal food better for their kidneys. Have you seen this website, it is the bible for anything CKD related? Good luck, it is a rollercoaster unfortunately

http://www.felineckd.com/index.htm

[bobbys girl]

Between diagnosis and his passing, I had almost a year with my Tommy. We tried him on various special diet foods, none of which appealed to him. But he was always fond of meat, be it beef, chicken, duck or turkey. It was a joy to see him tucking in to a chunk of chicken. It might not have been ideal, but at least he was eating something and he enjoyed it. He was happy and that makes me happy.

Fusses to Kitty.

[Lilith]

Bobbys girl, I was relieved to read that, as I agree. My Emily's recently been diagnosed as having ckd; the nurse and vet, when I rang about the blood tests, were a bit too over-sweet and cheerful: no meds, just diet ... wasn't even told what stage but a little research tells me it's stage 4. I knew anyway, just from looking at her. Apparently her bladder is tiny. She's 17 this summer and I'm not putting her through all the stress of isolating her with a dish of unfamilar food, or introducing microchip feeders to another elderly cat and a younger one, both set in their ways. Her appetite's good; I'll try and feed senior food if possible but if she needs tempting I'll have no hesitation in feeding a tin of Thrive or Encore or cooking some of her favourite rabbit. She's drinking a lot. I do know the danger signs, and will call the vet out if needs be, when it's time. Atm my plan is, keep her eating and no stress. She was depressed after the vet visit.

The vet, I think, expected me to 'pop round' for a case of the dreaded Hill's, but did suggest senior food if she wouldn't eat a special diet.

Oceanforestgirl, sorry to hijack your thread and so very sorry to hear about Kitty. It will be easier, with a lone cat, to experiment with special foods, and you will get plenty of advice and support here. It's quite a shock though, isn't it, when you first get to know?

Many many fusses to Kitty and hugs to you. Kitty is comparatively young - do hope you can keep her with you for a good while yet x

[Oceanforestgirl]

Thank you for the great advice. Kitty actually surpised me with a midnight snack and ate since I got her home (about 24 hours ago) an entire small can (about 3 oz ) and over half of a larger can (3oz -total of 6 oz) of her renal food
Still not eating a lot like I hoped. I will plan on speaking to my vet tomorrow as I’ve been hearing from friends that Royal Canin may be a good option for her. If none of these work I will go to the senior food as suggested! Fortunately she is eating a small amount and my vet said she is not too underweight right now. Did my first subcutaneous drip in her this am, managed to put it through her and into my own finger. Fortunately my husband rescued me and did it for me. We are all feeling a bit better about that. Kitty was totally normal about a week ago so this has been a blow, but knowing now what I didn’t know then, I realize there were warning signs I didnt see.
One more question. Anyone tried the pet wellbeing products? They have a lot of good reviews. My vet said not to do anything homeopathic until after her next appointment but want to get some ideas. Thanks again. I will check out the recommended websites!

[booktigger]

Glad she is eating. I'm guessing you are in the US?

[Oceanforestgirl]

Booktigger,
Yes I am in the US. I am just getting a whole arsenal of foods together. She seems to like something for about 30 seconds and then she wants something else. My vet is going to be checking in on us in a couple days to see how she is doing. I’m thinking she may be nauseous? She runs to her food bowl crying and all excited, takes 2-3 bites, and then turns her nose up. Perhaps anti nausea meds may help? I also found some senior food she seems to like (at least the gravy). Phosphorus and sodium were as low as some of the prescription diets, but I’m sure its not as nutrient rich. Thanks for any tips!

[Lilith]

Emily sometimes does that - seems hungry and then doesn't eat more than a few bites, but goes back later I find. She's looking well, considering. Today though she really got stuck into some senior Gourmet Pate - don't know if you can get that in the US, imagine you can. Also dried food and the Felix pouches. (I keep the posh stuff to tempt her with.)

I think also, nausea apart, if they only nibble, their stomachs shrink and a few mouthfuls seem like a meal (I'm often the same myself lol) so I'm prepared to feed little and often if that's what she wants ... the other two are going to get fat as butter, finishing up leftovers

Good luck Kitty and hope you keep her eating

[booktigger]

Nausea is common with kidney issues and you can get meds to help

[Oceanforestgirl]

Thank you everyone. Kitty was not willing to eat for over 8 hours, and no matter what foods I tried (all the ‘safer’ prescription or recommended low sodium, etc) she refused. I broke down and got her Fancy Feast and she devoured the whole can all while purring and salivating. This morning I got her to eat some of the senior food, so that was good. This afternoon she ate quite a bit of a gravy from a canned food. She is definitely in better spirits after the 3 oz can of Fancy Feast but I’m bummed it is not the healthiest for her kidneys. She is also constipated. Tried to get her to eat pumpkin with one of her foods (not happening) as per vet recommended so now were going with the over the counter meds that vet recommended. Hoping to get some movement going. Tried to make a gravy from one of the previous listed sites for kidney failure but Kitty was not having that either. She is so picky. Ugh. Anyone recommend other treatments for constipaton and also best choices if one has to resort to the Fancy Feast? Thanks again.

[Lilith]

If she hasn't been eating much, she won't be passing much, but there are remedies you can give them that come in a tube; you squeeze a bit out and wipe it round the cat's lips so that it has to lick it off; many of these are marketed as furball remedies. I won't quote any names as they may not be the same as in the States.

Antonio on here recommends a tiny amount of psyllium seed daily in food to keep a cat regular. It needs to be soaked beforehand.

I do hope you manage to get her eating regularly again; they do have good days and bad days. As Booktigger says, you could try anti-nausea meds as well - over here it's Cerenia but it's prescription only.

All the very best with her

[bobbys girl]

She seems to like something for about 30 seconds She runs to her food bowl crying and all excited, takes 2-3 bites, and then turns her nose up.

That's cats for you! They ALL do that!

I can only go on my experience with Tommy. But yes, he would start to eat something then give up after a few bites. But we just fed him on demand, whenever he sat near his bowl, he got a spoonful of something, and being such a meat lover, he would sit by the back door waiting for us to come home from Sunday lunch.

[issiandarchie+68]

Thank you everyone. Kitty was not willing to eat for over 8 hours, and no matter what foods I tried (all the ‘safer’ prescription or recommended low sodium, etc) she refused. I broke down and got her Fancy Feast and she devoured the whole can all while purring and salivating. This morning I got her to eat some of the senior food, so that was good. This afternoon she ate quite a bit of a gravy from a canned food. She is definitely in better spirits after the 3 oz can of Fancy Feast but I’m bummed it is not the healthiest for her kidneys. She is also constipated. Tried to get her to eat pumpkin with one of her foods (not happening) as per vet recommended so now were going with the over the counter meds that vet recommended. Hoping to get some movement going. Tried to make a gravy from one of the previous listed sites for kidney failure but Kitty was not having that either. She is so picky. Ugh. Anyone recommend other treatments for constipaton and also best choices if one has to resort to the Fancy Feast? Thanks again.

At Stage 4, better to let Kitty enjoy her food than starve. My Cody wouldn't touch 'prescribed' foods, was ravenous by the time I gave her thin slices of ham, her usual wet food. Unfortunately, kidneys don't regenerate, patient becomes very dehydrated, hence constipation. You could try a little lactulose in canned tuna in spring water, put down cat milk, but please don't stress if she isn't pooping as normal. My Cody pooped straight after rehydration but never again over 10 days. I think you are doing great looking after Kitty and she seems a brave wee soul.

Sending virtual hugs and good vibes.

Issi

[booktigger]

Thank you everyone. Kitty was not willing to eat for over 8 hours, and no matter what foods I tried (all the ‘safer’ prescription or recommended low sodium, etc) she refused. I broke down and got her Fancy Feast and she devoured the whole can all while purring and salivating. This morning I got her to eat some of the senior food, so that was good. This afternoon she ate quite a bit of a gravy from a canned food. She is definitely in better spirits after the 3 oz can of Fancy Feast but I’m bummed it is not the healthiest for her kidneys. She is also constipated. Tried to get her to eat pumpkin with one of her foods (not happening) as per vet recommended so now were going with the over the counter meds that vet recommended. Hoping to get some movement going. Tried to make a gravy from one of the previous listed sites for kidney failure but Kitty was not having that either. She is so picky. Ugh. Anyone recommend other treatments for constipaton and also best choices if one has to resort to the Fancy Feast? Thanks again.

At Stage 4, better to let Kitty enjoy her food than starve. My Cody wouldn't touch 'prescribed' foods, was ravenous by the time I gave her thin slices of ham, her usual wet food. Unfortunately, kidneys don't regenerate, patient becomes very dehydrated, hence constipation. You could try a little lactulose in canned tuna in spring water, put down cat milk, but please don't stress if she isn't pooping as normal. My Cody pooped straight after rehydration but never again over 10 days. I think you are doing great looking after Kitty and she seems a brave wee soul.

Sending virtual hugs and good vibes.

Issi

Ditto feeding her whatever she wants, regardless

[Lilith]

Emily hasn't 'been' for a few days, but this morning there was her tiny little (soft) effort in the tray.

I was told by a vet that cats scoffing plenty of dried food pass good bulky motions; if they nibble this and that they may seem rather sluggish but nothing to worry about. She will eat a little dried (Purina.)

I think their tastes change too - Emily used to be fish mad and wouldn't look at chicken unless it was freshly grilled. Ham and bacon weren't terribly exciting. In the last few days she's demanded a share of my bacon sarnie, and the next day my ham sarnie, with MENACES! Luckily she was content with a tiny taste of each as they were salty. Then today I was taking the meat off some chicken wings that had been used for stock, and she sat there, waiting ... this is a cat who would never eat cold chicken, too bland, and straight out of the fridge, tasteless ... I tried her with a shred and she grabbed, and ate about a spoonful with pleasure.

I think you need to be a clairvoyant or cat psychologist to know what a ckd cat fancies next!

Fusses and good luck as always to Kitty

[BobbiRobbie]

My Charlie persevered with the Hills KD food for quite some time, but he kept losing weight and was clearly not eating as much as he should. In the end I mixed half the renal food with normal senior cat food and that made a difference. It wasn't ideal for his kidneys, but I reasoned that if he was eating more then he was happier. He put on a bit of the weight he lost and had more energy in his final months, so I'm glad I did that

All the best to you and your kitty

[Oceanforestgirl]

Thank you again for advice and encouragement. Its been a few days since I posted as I started a new job and things have been busy. Kitty had to go back to the vets for her blood work and it was WAY worse. Her kidney toxin level was already high, now its even higher. Discouraging since I’ve been doing the sub Q injections regularly, getting quite a bit of food (no renal food, mind you, she won’t even go near it!) and keeping her nausea in check. I was downright discouraged. Probably the bad food I’m feeding her but I’ve tried dozens of different types of foods, and she will only eat 1. I did manage to sneak some renal food into her wet food the last 3 feedings but the vet told me to stop the anti nausea (I actually gave it to her for too many days, I didn’t understand the instructions) and so she ended up looking sick and distressed today and threw up a couple of times. Poor baby, she looks terrible. I called the vet and they said to give her some anti nausea but I couldnt get it down, she threw it back up again. Ugh. Vet is closed for the weekend so unless I want to drive the 90 minutes through a snowy pass I’m left fending for her myself. Any suggestions would be appreciated. I appreciate the reminder that she is at the end so trying to keep her happy is my main concern, but she had quite a few really good days so I sort of got my hopes up.

[Lilith]

And she may well have more decent days ahead - they're so unpredictable. Every time I think Emily's looking rough, she amazes me by suddenly sleeking down and being her usual bossy self lol.

If she will keep going, nibble this and that, that's what matters (but I'm new to this myself, no expert.) But seeing a very sudden crisis with another cat, years ago, I think that if a cat goes off its food entirely, is lethargic, then that is an emergency as any delay can lead to a lot of discomfort. So if you can keep Kitty tempted and eating, there's no need to brave that snowy pass just yet.

That's a bummer about the anti-nausea. I was under the impression it could be given regularly. Emily's been lucky - she threw up a furball (which can happen to any cat) last week and then barfed a bit of froth a day or two later, but so far so good, but I thought that if she did start feeling chronically sick I could just ask the vet for Cerenia, job done.

Hope others can give you (and me) more advice on this.

All the very best and lots of fusses to Kitty x

[booktigger]

I do hope she picks up for you. I'm also surprised about the anti-nausea, Lucy's vet wanted her to have it daily, but she is only sick one day a week, so we do it the day before (her's is related to her hypercalcaemia) - she had hers yesterday and was sick today, which made my heart sink a bit. If the fluids and nausea meds aren't helping, i'd just give her whatever food she enjoys, as the priority now is quality rather than quantity.