Kidney disease- when is it time?

IMPORTANT: If your cat is in any distress or discomfort, please consult your own vet as your first priority.
Post Reply
User avatar
Ruby17
Returning Cat Chatter
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2018 3:04 pm

Kidney disease- when is it time?

Post by Ruby17 »

Hi there, I need some help... I have a 17 yr old baby girl, her name is Ruby. She is my entire life and she was diagnosed with Kidney disease in Aug. 2017. She was a stage II. As of the last week, she has stopped eating her food. She eats her "Greenie" treats when I give them to her, and I give her a lot because that is all she eats. She used to drink a ton of water from her fountain, but recently her water intake has slowed down. Her back legs are not as stable as once and a while she stumbles. She is still jumping up on my bed, the couch and her scratching post. She still comes to me for hugs and wants me to hold her more than ever before. She has always meowed a ton, but recently a high pitched "scream" has developed in place of her regular meow. Last Aug. she weighted 9.2lbs and now she is at 8.2lbs, not too horrible, but I'm sure the loss has been in the past couple of weeks. When I pet her, all I feel are bones. She still purrs like crazy when I am holding her, but she used to sleep next to me and now she sleeps by herself on the couch. She still uses her litter box to pee in, but she poops on my floor and recently, my bed. :( I am terrified because I don't want her to be in pain, I don't want her to get more thin and not have any energy. I guess my question is, how do you know when it's time to say good bye? It's not something I ever want to do, but as her mommy, I need to know when before I let her go through any pain or not have a good quality of life. Please help me work through this, any thoughts or advice would be such a big help.
User avatar
Janey
VIP Cat Chatter!
Posts: 930
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2014 1:04 pm
No. of cats in household: 1

Re: Kidney disease- when is it time?

Post by Janey »

Hi and welcome. So sorry that your little girl isn’t well. I’ve had a few oldies with CRF and it can be difficult to tell when the time is to say goodbye. If she’s not eating at the moment that won’t help, have you tried lots of different foods? You don’t say where you are from, if you’re in the UK you could try Gourmet pates I find my oldies all love those, and strong smelling fish, like mackerel, salmon, sardines or tuna, that can sometimes encourage them to eat. I am sure that other forum members will be along to give you some help with this, I know some users have looked into this in detail and if you search the forum you may find some helpful threads too. There is a site which I think a lot find helpful here:
http://www.felinecrf.org/tanyas_support_group.htm
Sending fusses to Ruby from me xx
User avatar
Ruby17
Returning Cat Chatter
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2018 3:04 pm

Re: Kidney disease- when is it time?

Post by Ruby17 »

Thank you for the welcome and for the reply.
I am in the US, I haven't tried other foods, just the treats.
User avatar
Janey
VIP Cat Chatter!
Posts: 930
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2014 1:04 pm
No. of cats in household: 1

Re: Kidney disease- when is it time?

Post by Janey »

Ruby17 wrote:Thank you for the welcome and for the reply.
I am in the US, I haven’t tried other foods, just the treats.
Hi, yes definitely try other foods, it’s important they eat something otherwise they can downhill, and preferably not just treats! Does she like cat milk? if she can tolerate cat milk or lactose free milk that will help her gain some weight too. Loss of appetite is a very common symptom because of excess acid, nausea etc, so you shouldn’t always think the worst, but it’s important that you try lots of foods to tempt your cat to eat. Do check out the link I gave you too, there’s lots of information on there. There is specifically a section on feeding which is very helpful.
User avatar
Kay
VIP Cat Chatter!
Posts: 1961
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:50 pm
No. of cats in household: 1
Location: West Wales

Re: Kidney disease- when is it time?

Post by Kay »

just to add that the Tanya site covers suitable US foods too
User avatar
Ruby17
Returning Cat Chatter
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2018 3:04 pm

Re: Kidney disease- when is it time?

Post by Ruby17 »

Thank you very much, I did look at the site and I got her 2 new kinds of food, I also got something for Kidney health. I'll let you know if she eats the food. I got Core, she is currently on Wellness.
User avatar
Janey
VIP Cat Chatter!
Posts: 930
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2014 1:04 pm
No. of cats in household: 1

Re: Kidney disease- when is it time?

Post by Janey »

Everything crossed you can get her to eat. Our vets will sometimes give you something to help with their appetite so it’s worth looking at all options. Do keep us updated.
User avatar
Lilith
VIP Cat Chatter!
Posts: 3600
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2014 8:00 pm
No. of cats in household: 1
Location: West Yorks

Re: Kidney disease- when is it time?

Post by Lilith »

Hi, been reading this thread but couldn't seem to get my head round replying - you've had very good advice anyway and this forum is a great place to learn; I couldn't do without it :)

I have a 17 year old with ckd, Emily, my avatar cat, so I'm experiencing the same as you.

What works for Emmy and me is to let her take her own way, and keep her eating, as others have said. The vet advised special ckd diet ... there are three cats in the house and you can't feed healthy cats on a low-protein diet. If I took precautions to separate Emily when feeding, she'd smell their food and raise hell and go on a hunger strike. Senior food, said the vet, can be an option since it's lower in potassium ... right, senior food it is, but occasionally Em breaks out and bawls for a treat. So I keep Gourmet and Encore and Thrive (UK brands) on hand, also tinned salmon. Used to be able to get sardines in spring water but can't find them any more grrr. I feed her on demand, basically. Well, we do have set mealtimes and biscuits to graze on but often she wants a little extra. The others are getting spoilt, finishing up after her.

The girl has good days and bad days; she looks thinner but her coat is great and she even has episodes of jumping about on occasion. The vet didn't give me much info and didn't recommend any meds but after much reading I think she's stage 4; her breath is virulent. When she goes hunting in the (secured) garden I reckon she could gas a spider without pouncing. Her teeth WERE checked. She does drink a lot. She returned from the vet checks a depressed little bag of bones; at home she's cheerful and bossy so I won't be hauling her back for regular tests. She sleeps a lot but despite being deaf she's always first at the wet food :lol:

What would be danger signals to me would be extreme listlessness or absolutely no interest in food for longer than 12 hours - ckd can degenerate into uraemia which is basically kidney collapse. I'd call the vet out then and pay the extra. Sometimes dialysis can be an option but, as a vet said to me about another cat, dialysis is for the owner, not the cat. To send a dying cat away for a temporary respite, to put her in a bewildering hospital situation with strangers, no. I'd let her go in her own home.

I do hope you get Ruby eating more and that you get a good long time together ... it seems like a death sentence, ckd; Emily was diagnosed in February and I was a tearful wreck for days, but here we are in July and getting our vitamin D fix in the garden together (extraordinary UK heatwave.)

With all the very very best to you and Ruby; Emily sends purrs :)
booktigger
VIP Cat Chatter!
Posts: 2664
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:36 pm
No. of cats in household: 3

Re: Kidney disease- when is it time?

Post by booktigger »

[quote="Lilith"]it seems like a death sentence, ckd; quote]

Sadly it is a terminal disease, and classed as an emotional rollercoaster as it really is, but luckily these days its a lot more manageable they can now have years rather than months. I did get upset when Lucy was diagnosed with early stage last year (she had the SDMA test, which picks up at 30% loss, rather than the traditional 70%), even though I knew those bloods were going to show something. We skipped her bloods this March, as she hasn't lost any weight so pointless stressing her just to know numbers, and I fully agree with dialysis, although fluids can be great at buying them time.
User avatar
Ruby17
Returning Cat Chatter
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2018 3:04 pm

Re: Kidney disease- when is it time?

Post by Ruby17 »

Thank you all for your thoughts and advice. She seems to be eating more of the new food. She hangs out with me when I'm home and not hiding as much. He coat also seems to be fine, she cleans herself as usual. Her breath is not too bad at this point, just normal kitty breath. LOL! Her weight has seemed to have stabilized. And yes, she also has bad days and good days. She hasn't thrown up in about 4 days, which is good for us.
Yes, this is a very hard thing to watch a loved little baby go through and like I have stated before, I just do not want my little baby girl to suffer. I guess If I can keep her eating, that is a win! I do not want her to starve herself and I closely monitor her weight and if we lose anymore, that will have to be decision time :( This board is wonderful, I a learning a lot and I an so happy that you all have replied. Thank you for taking the time to help Ruby and I! I wish you all and your babies well. I will keep writing to update you all!
User avatar
bobbys girl
VIP Cat Chatter!
Posts: 3095
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2014 8:58 pm
No. of cats in household: 5
Location: Co. Fermanagh

Re: Kidney disease- when is it time?

Post by bobbys girl »

I went through a similar time (as Lilith) with our Tommy. He was up one day and down the next. Fluids helped and he did like his sardines. Probably sardines in tomato sauce were not ideal, but at least he was eating. He was also a terror for turkey and duck and stole both when they were just out of the oven and my back was turned. Ill as he was, he could still be a little divil!
User avatar
Janey
VIP Cat Chatter!
Posts: 930
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2014 1:04 pm
No. of cats in household: 1

Re: Kidney disease- when is it time?

Post by Janey »

Ruby17 wrote:Thank you all for your thoughts and advice. She seems to be eating more of the new food. She hangs out with me when I'm home and not hiding as much. He coat also seems to be fine, she cleans herself as usual. Her breath is not too bad at this point, just normal kitty breath. LOL! Her weight has seemed to have stabilized. And yes, she also has bad days and good days. She hasn't thrown up in about 4 days, which is good for us.
Yes, this is a very hard thing to watch a loved little baby go through and like I have stated before, I just do not want my little baby girl to suffer. I guess If I can keep her eating, that is a win! I do not want her to starve herself and I closely monitor her weight and if we lose anymore, that will have to be decision time :( This board is wonderful, I a learning a lot and I an so happy that you all have replied. Thank you for taking the time to help Ruby and I! I wish you all and your babies well. I will keep writing to update you all!
Glad she’s eating a bit more. Gourmet pates, and tinned salmon and mackerel, prawns and tuna are favourites with most of mine when trying to get them to eat.
User avatar
Ruby17
Returning Cat Chatter
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2018 3:04 pm

Re: Kidney disease- when is it time?

Post by Ruby17 »

So, this week, she has been nibbling on the new food that she loved last week. She is still drinking a lot of water, but when I clean her litter box, not much is in there. I think her body is just shutting down and not letting her expel the water. She has gained 1/2 a lb which makes me think she is retaining water. She is acting the same but I don't want her to be in pain or start to get worse. What does all this mean? Do I just let her go? I love my little baby so much, but I want her to be happy and at peace. I can not stand the thought of not holding her or kissing her again. Help!!!
User avatar
Lilith
VIP Cat Chatter!
Posts: 3600
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2014 8:00 pm
No. of cats in household: 1
Location: West Yorks

Re: Kidney disease- when is it time?

Post by Lilith »

If she's still eating, there's hope. She might be going through a bad patch, as they do. A vet check for any retained fluid might be a good idea.

They are so fragile and yet so unpredictable; many's the time I've looked at Emily, on a bad day, these past months and thought, really, there can't be much longer - then she bounces back. Recently I was worried about a few regular pukes and wondered if I should ask the vet for anti-sickness meds ... the other morning she woke me up, puking a magnificent furball (so if I'd stopped her vomiting up that monster it would have been disastrous) and has been great since then - long may it last!

I do hope it's the same with your girl, a temporary glitch. Hugs, and purrs from Emily and all very best wishes x
User avatar
Janey
VIP Cat Chatter!
Posts: 930
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2014 1:04 pm
No. of cats in household: 1

Re: Kidney disease- when is it time?

Post by Janey »

Although you know her better than us, I agree with Lilith, whilst she’s still got some appetite etc, then I’d be inclined think she’s still doing ok. Even when she loses her appetite for a while, there will be good and bad days, it’s when the bad outweigh the good and she’s really no interest in life I’d be worrying more. Give her a snuggle from me xx
User avatar
Ruby17
Returning Cat Chatter
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2018 3:04 pm

Re: Kidney disease- when is it time?

Post by Ruby17 »

Thank you to all that have responded, she is still hanging on. Recently she has been up all night meowing and not stopping. I don't know if she is in pain or what is going on. During the day she is quiet, not really meowing at all. Why is it only at night? I thought maybe her sight was going so I leave a light on in the apartment at night, nope, that didn't work. I'm at a loss. Any other babies doing this? I love her so much, but mommy also needs to seep.
booktigger
VIP Cat Chatter!
Posts: 2664
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:36 pm
No. of cats in household: 3

Re: Kidney disease- when is it time?

Post by booktigger »

There are quite a few health things that can cause excessive vocalisation at night - deafness, hyper-thyroidism, dementia.
User avatar
Lilith
VIP Cat Chatter!
Posts: 3600
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2014 8:00 pm
No. of cats in household: 1
Location: West Yorks

Re: Kidney disease- when is it time?

Post by Lilith »

Hi again - yes, Emily too, for years, which I'm pretty sure was due to deafness, judging by behaviour. Often she'd be unaware of me and then react with a start; I learned to approach her gently. Also feline dementia was a possibility, given her age. I had her checked out for hyperthyroidism, which is when the ckd was discovered.

I taught myself to think, it's ok, she's not in need, she's just having a quick howl - but I'm insomniac and retired; I can have a disrupted night and sleep in the next morning, unlike most people with work and commitments; I realise I'm lucky. She'd also cry only about 5/6 times and then shut up and go back to sleep. I really don't feel this was due to the ckd.

Emmy left me five weeks ago by the way - but she was bossy and cheerful right up till the day before. I think that's the way in which we'd all wish to go. And they're all different - as Booktigger says they can have years; it does depend on the stage of the disease and the cat and if diet works too.

I do hope you manage to find some solution to Ruby's howling - judging by Emily's behaviour I don't think it's a sign of distress. If she was within reach I'd fuss her and reassure her but she was fine - she'd just been 'absent' for a little while. It can be difficult though at first, thinking, omg, what does she want? Also, Emily would reach a 'plateau' where she'd seem to adjust, and the howling would stop for a while, which makes me think she may have been adjusting to progressive deafness.

Fusses to Ruby and I hope she stays with you for a good while yet, and also that she stops disturbing you, bad lass. All the very best x
User avatar
Ruby17
Returning Cat Chatter
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2018 3:04 pm

Re: Kidney disease- when is it time?

Post by Ruby17 »

Thank you so much for replying. First off...I am so sorry to hear about Emmy. My heart breaks for you.
I'm not sure it's her hearing, she seems to respond to everything just like she always have. Is it possible It can be her sight? When she looks at me it's like she is looking right through me and she has been putting her face right up in my face and smelling me a lot more. It different behavior for her.
I'm just at a loss, I've never had a cat that have this behavior in the PM hours.
User avatar
Lilith
VIP Cat Chatter!
Posts: 3600
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2014 8:00 pm
No. of cats in household: 1
Location: West Yorks

Re: Kidney disease- when is it time?

Post by Lilith »

Thanks x

It does sound like Ruby's sight; I'm no expert of course but I wonder if in that case she's adjusting (and commenting loudly about it.) Perhaps the darker hours make it more bewildering for her. I wonder if it might be an idea to leave a light on for her in a room where it wouldn't disturb you? As she adjusts, perhaps the howling might stop, at least for a while, but could recur of course. It's heartbreaking as they get older and frailer :(

All the very best with her and please keep updating.
User avatar
Ruby17
Returning Cat Chatter
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2018 3:04 pm

Re: Kidney disease- when is it time?

Post by Ruby17 »

Just an update...
I lost my Ruby on Tuesday 10/23. She was so sick and lost a lot of weight.
She will forever be in my heart. I am in so much pain, she was such a good baby.
I miss being a cat mommy already :(
User avatar
Janey
VIP Cat Chatter!
Posts: 930
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2014 1:04 pm
No. of cats in household: 1

Re: Kidney disease- when is it time?

Post by Janey »

I am so sorry for your loss, I am sure Ruby felt so loved and cared for with you, take care of yourself now.

God bless Ruby xx
User avatar
Lilith
VIP Cat Chatter!
Posts: 3600
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2014 8:00 pm
No. of cats in household: 1
Location: West Yorks

Re: Kidney disease- when is it time?

Post by Lilith »

Aww ... so, at last. We all dread it. I'm so sorry to hear. Lots of love and hugs, Lil x
User avatar
Ruth B
VIP Cat Chatter!
Posts: 1998
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 11:31 am
No. of cats in household: 3
Location: Wolverhampton

Re: Kidney disease- when is it time?

Post by Ruth B »

RIP little Ruby. We all know that when the time comes we will take the hurt ourselves to make sure our precious kitties don't have to.

Give yourself time to grieve.

Then when the time is right i'm sure there will be another kitty who would love all the cuddles and kindness you have to offer, she will never replace Ruby but I'm sure he or she will help fill a hole in your life and be a character all of their own.
booktigger
VIP Cat Chatter!
Posts: 2664
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:36 pm
No. of cats in household: 3

Re: Kidney disease- when is it time?

Post by booktigger »

I'm so sorry to hear this, RIP Ruby
Post Reply