Honey’s results

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Re: Honey’s results

Post by Mollycat » Sat Sep 19, 2020 7:47 am

fjm wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 6:41 am
I've given up measuring by the glass, too - I just count the bottles on recycling day, and vow to have fewer next week...
The ones used for cooking don't count, so a little splash in the dish absolves you altogether.

My ex's mum used to open a bottle for medicinal purposes, then be forced to finish it to avoid waste.

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Re: Honey’s results

Post by Raych1975 » Sat Sep 19, 2020 10:04 am

Ha brilliant!!

Just had a thought, could honeys splats actually be side effect of steroids?? She never had squits like this before she went on meds. She only ever had one episode of upset tummy and bad vomiting the day before she saw the consultant.

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Re: Honey’s results

Post by Mollycat » Sat Sep 19, 2020 10:20 am

Apparently yes it's possible, it's one of the rare side effects of long term use. I would guess more likely in fact as she never reliably had her dosage as she should and didn't come off them gradually as she should. Steroids mess up the system really badly if not taken exactly as prescribed or stopped without very gradual tapering. Obviously we know that's not your fault.

So let's say it was, then I guess you need to know how long before Honey has a chance of healing and getting back to normal?
Last edited by Mollycat on Sat Sep 19, 2020 10:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Honey’s results

Post by Raych1975 » Sat Sep 19, 2020 10:26 am

Mollycat wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 10:20 am
Apparently yes it's possible, it's one of the side effects. I would guess more likely in fact as she never reliably had her dosage as she should and didn't come off them gradually as she should. Steroids mess up the system really badly if not taken exactly as prescribed or stopped without very gradual tapering. Obviously we know that's not your fault.

So let's say it was, then I guess you need to know how long before Honey has a chance of healing and getting back to normal?
Honey hasn’t stopped her steroids and has never missed a dose. She is on liquid steroids once a day which were increased slightly in july. It was the omeprazole pills (Antacids) that were very hit and miss; she not been on those for ages.

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Re: Honey’s results

Post by Raych1975 » Sat Sep 19, 2020 10:27 am

We moved to liquid steroids very quickly once the vet and i knew how hard she was to pill as we know how important they are.

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Re: Honey’s results

Post by Mollycat » Sat Sep 19, 2020 10:32 am

Raych1975 wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 10:27 am
We moved to liquid steroids very quickly once the vet and i knew how hard she was to pill as we know how important they are.
Ah sorry my mistake! I thought it was still the tablet steroids that went on causing trouble for so long. So how long has she been on them? I don't know what they class as long term use, all I found is that yes it's a known side effect but rare and in long term use.

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Re: Honey’s results

Post by Raych1975 » Sat Sep 19, 2020 10:41 am

She been on steroids since May this year. I not sure what they class as ‘long term’ either. That was one reason i wanted up to date bloods done to see if the steroids were affecting anything that we don’t know of. Overall the results ok but IF on the off chance they were causing her diarrhoea that wouldn’t show up in blood tests just In my back Garden Lol
It probably doubtful the steroids have anything to do with it, it just me thinking 🙄

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Re: Honey’s results

Post by fjm » Sat Sep 19, 2020 10:53 am

Steroids can definitely cause diarrhoea, but they can also be life saving and life extending. Poppy has now been on them since January, and I can see the effects - thin coat, pot belly, quite possibly contributing to the diarrhoea. On the other hand without them she would quite possibly not be here at all, or be suffering far more from the liver failure symptoms - as it is she is happy, hungry, walking a couple of miles a day and generally enjoying life. Definitely worth discussing with your vet whether it is time to reduce the dose, though.

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Re: Honey’s results

Post by Raych1975 » Sat Sep 19, 2020 11:30 am

Thanks fjm, tbh he did actually comment the other day it was uncertain how much, if at all, the steroids were helping...
Good point though that they can be life saving and yes, having squits is a relatively small price to pay (within reason) to still have our fur babies with us. I guess we wouldn’t know how much they help until she isn’t on them.
I actually think it is worth him thinking about reducing the dose slightly. He increased them as she wasnt eating much but her poos weren’t this bad back then.
Funnily enough i thought the other day honeys fur looked finer but put it down to the seasons... she usually has thick chunky fur!
It’s all if, buts and maybe’s!!......

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Re: Honey’s results

Post by fjm » Sat Sep 19, 2020 1:07 pm

If the vet is unsure that the steroids are actually helping I would definitely ask about beginning to reduce them, especially if she is now eating reasonably well. They are a two edged sword, with some nasty side effects. You already know that phasing them out has to be done gradually and carefully, but even a small reduction may help.

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Re: Honey’s results

Post by Mollycat » Sat Sep 19, 2020 1:44 pm

I know Boo was on tablets but we were told cut dose in half, at first, and keep halving it.

Don't. Too much in one go.

Our plan was to skip one day a week for a month, then give him 5 days miss one, then 4 days miss one, and so on. We never got there but that was more realistic, a month at a time.

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Re: Honey’s results

Post by Raych1975 » Sat Sep 19, 2020 1:53 pm

I will speak to him next week. He may say she too unstable to reduce them , its all a vicious circle..

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Re: Honey’s results

Post by Raych1975 » Sat Sep 19, 2020 1:55 pm

Mollycat wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 1:44 pm
I know Boo was on tablets but we were told cut dose in half, at first, and keep halving it.

Don't. Too much in one go.

Our plan was to skip one day a week for a month, then give him 5 days miss one, then 4 days miss one, and so on. We never got there but that was more realistic, a month at a time.
Gosh that does sound a bit too much in one go!!
I’m thinking to start with change from 0.75 to 0.5 every day and if stable ish, then not sure. But will obviously do what vet says.

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Re: Honey’s results

Post by Raych1975 » Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:44 am

A small hoorah moment, a good poop just been done, first time in quite a while!
I know not to get too excited but i am allowed to be pleased when it does happen.
Not started protexin sachets yet, she just been eating the dry sensitive arden grange and she not touched the applaws chicken/lamb dry much at all for few days
Still nicks her sisters wet food occasionslly

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Re: Honey’s results

Post by fjm » Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:17 pm

Celebrate each and every one!

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Re: Honey’s results

Post by Mollycat » Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:24 pm

Warning, pets and children may cause obsession with poop and emetic and loss of all trace of inhibition talking about them

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Re: Honey’s results

Post by fjm » Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:37 pm

LOL - but think how lucky we are that one good poo can make us happy for a whole day!

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Re: Honey’s results

Post by Raych1975 » Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:45 pm

It’s certainly not a topic i ever thought i’d be celebrating or discussing to this length!
:o

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Re: Honey’s results

Post by Raych1975 » Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:56 am

Consultant has said he is happy to reduce steroids as he really not sure we have really seen a particular positive effect on honey being on them. He wants her on protexin before reducing them (he not told me how much reducing by yet). I have started honey on protexin, just literally a pinch, no where near half a sachet. Guess what?, honey says no!!! :roll:
Her sister will eat it though! Not encouraging that though as her sister doesn’t need it.

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Re: Honey’s results

Post by fjm » Sun Sep 27, 2020 11:59 am

Will she eat it with a splash of water added? Poppy does not recognise the powder as food, but gobbles it made into a gravy.

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Re: Honey’s results

Post by Mollycat » Sun Sep 27, 2020 12:26 pm

I'm confused, Protexin seems to be the name of the company that makes all kinds of supplements for human, pet and farm use, from vitamin C and probiotics to the powders and pastes for helping stop diarrhoea and for different systems from digestion to urinary. Which of their many products are we talking about here?

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Re: Honey’s results

Post by Raych1975 » Sun Sep 27, 2020 1:02 pm

Protexin Pro‑Kolin Enterogenic Sachets. Probiotic sachets, great results in dogs with ibd type illnesses so vet wanted honey to try them even though she a cat.

Fjm I not tried that! So just mix a bit in syringe with water? Could probably manage it as she takes the liquid steroid in syringe into mouth well, just be bit nervous as don't want to cause an aversion to syringes in mouth to cause problem with getting her to take steroid.

She took the fortiflora in food very easily so was hoping she would take the protexin just as well, it was literally a pinch so even if she ate it i doubt it would make any difference but it would of been a start. But nooooooo she totally blanked it!

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Re: Honey’s results

Post by Raych1975 » Sun Sep 27, 2020 1:05 pm

fjm wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 11:59 am
Will she eat it with a splash of water added? Poppy does not recognise the powder as food, but gobbles it made into a gravy.
Sorry just re read post! You didnt mention anything about syringes! I’m tired, sorry. I am sure she would take it in lik e lix thing but last time i gave her a bit she had upset tummy. Got nothing to lose in trying to mix it with water and into a saucer... lol i know where this is going to end up! Just thankful i managed to get a few single sachets for a few quid rather than forking out yet more money on wasted products

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Re: Honey’s results

Post by Mollycat » Sun Sep 27, 2020 1:28 pm

Not wishing to piddle on your bonfire but surely a cat and a dog have very different gut flora as one is a scavenging more or less omnivore while the other is an obligate carnivore? The same product with the same bacteria sounds a little squiffy to me. But I'm no expert.

Was just reading some interesting stuff, have you tried bone broth for Honey? Something I keep forgetting about.

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Re: Honey’s results

Post by Raych1975 » Sun Sep 27, 2020 2:28 pm

I keep reading about bone broth too, its something i want to try but its kind of getting around to it...

I will have another look at the protexin website as i’m sure its ok for all small animals. The project that The vet was going on about had been done was on dogs only with good results.....

He also said steroid side effects of diarrhoea whilst was possible , it was rare....

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Re: Honey’s results

Post by Raych1975 » Sun Sep 27, 2020 2:38 pm

https://www.animeddirect.co.uk/protexin ... 4g-sachets

Not promoting the website just the first result that came up re the protexin sachets, ok for cats

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Re: Honey’s results

Post by fjm » Sun Sep 27, 2020 4:53 pm

I sprinkle it on food, then add a splash of water. Poppy is prone to dehydration because of the steroids (increased peeing) and the digestive issues, so I have been adding water to her food for some time in any case. Perhaps try a buffet of saucers, powder+water, powder+food+water, food only, all in tiny quantities, and see if she will try it that way.

Plain chicken stock is a bit of a stand by here - I try to keep a few ice cubes of it to hand in case I need to get any of the animals drinking.

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Re: Honey’s results

Post by Mollycat » Sun Sep 27, 2020 5:25 pm

I'm not doubting it's safe, lots of things are for cats and dogs and in some cases even for different ailments in different species, like Fortekor commonly given for cats with kidney failure that was originally a heart drug for dogs. The diarrhoea aid from Protexin, the Pro-Kolin, safe and effective for cats and dogs. Not worried about that.

What I'm wondering is, in the case of something that is meant to restore gut flora, when gut flora is such an individual thing, I'm a little sceptical about something that claims to be for two such different species.

Slightly different example - people. Each person's gut flora is unique, so those little yoghurt drink pots they try to sell us that have 3 strains of bacteria, what difference do they really make to a gut with its own unique combination of thousands of bacteria species? I suppose I'm suspicious enough of the usefulness of potted probiotics full stop, let alone a product that claims to be helpful to 2 species that don't even have the same basic diet. Research now suggests the most varied diet possible generates the most diverse gut microbiome for best health ... so what, realistically, can L Casei Immunitas or whatever fancy name they have given it, actually achieve?

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Re: Honey’s results

Post by Raych1975 » Sun Sep 27, 2020 5:59 pm

Totally see where you are coming from mollycat and very good logical points!
In very simple different terms, how can shampoo be for all hair types? Every hair type is different (i’m an ex hairdresser lol)

Fortiflora has very mixed reviews, some very poor, some very good.

Tried her again tonight with a smidgen of protexin in food, nope!! Walked off out cat flap and disappeared over fence! Its amazing how well they smell!, the tiniest bit of powder in wet food. I may have a dabble with other methods fjm, before i forget it.
Offered her a bit of the same food with no protexin, she ate it, so it not the food, albeit a really **** one!

I read fortiflora has animal digest in it, bit like the stuff they spray dry food in, which is why they eat it. Kitty crack is the nickname!

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Re: Honey’s results

Post by Raych1975 » Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:02 pm

fjm wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 4:53 pm
I sprinkle it on food, then add a splash of water. Poppy is prone to dehydration because of the steroids (increased peeing) and the digestive issues, so I have been adding water to her food for some time in any case. Perhaps try a buffet of saucers, powder+water, powder+food+water, food only, all in tiny quantities, and see if she will try it that way.

Plain chicken stock is a bit of a stand by here - I try to keep a few ice cubes of it to hand in case I need to get any of the animals drinking.
Sorry if you told me before but how do you make your chicken stock?

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