Help with my girlfriend's nightmare kitten

[mmalone139]

Hello guys, my girlfriend is a first-time kitten owner.
I am not a cat person at all so my views on him are probably a little biased.
Anyway, my girlfriend recently moved in with me and got a kitten not too long ago.
She got him at 2 weeks. I advised her to keep him with his mom until he was at least a month old but she decided to take him sooner.

Anyway, fast-forward to about 3.2 months old... He's become this aggressive, destructive monster cat.
He always climbs on furniture, knocks things down despite us continually telling him no, biting us, attacking my rabbit, yowling for hours when he's in time out (from attacking the rabbit or urinating outside of his litter boxes), etc, etc. He even yowls for hours when being put in another room while we sleep. I understand some of these things are just what cats do, may be caused by some sort of anxiety, or he needs further training on.

So, I'm at my wits end. I find him rather infuriating to be honest and I'd like to experience the "joys" that people speak of when having a kitten.
He's never shown any type of affection towards me but I understand he might be afraid of me given that I am usually the one to put him in time out, spray him, etc, etc when he misbehaves.

Anyway I just honestly need advice? How do I get him to coexist with my rabbit?
We have an issue of getting a balance of exercise between the rabbit and the kitten because he acts so aggressively towards the rabbit.
We tried a fence and he just climbs it to get to the rabbit. How do we keep him from climbing on our furniture? I tried pet blocking spray and it doesn't seem to do anything. Also catnip but I don't think he's old enough to enjoy the calming effects yet. Also how do I know if he's legitimately biting the rabbit and trying to hurt him versus playing with him and grooming him? I also don't want to punish him if he wasn't attacking the rabbit and just playing. Thanks guys.

[Mollycat]

Are you sure the kitten was 2 weeks old? Was the kitten able to eat cat food and use a litter box when she got him? Are you sure the he was 2 weeks and not 2 months?

You guys need to start from the beginning and that's understanding that a kitten can't be "trained" by spraying it or putting it in time out, you are making him the way he is so you need to stop right now. You are traumatising him into peeing outside the box. You're right, it's very likely he doesn't give you affection is because of the relationship you have with him now. You can fix it but it's going to take a lot on your part and a real commitment from both you and your girlfriend to learn the basics of what a cat is and how to bring up a kitten.

To be completely honest it really doesn't sound like a cat is the right pet for you guys. They do climb, they scratch the couch, they are a predator and a rabbit is prey, cats are clumsy and knock things on the floor. You can't stop them being a cat. What you can do is get a pet that suits you better.

[mmalone139]

Are you sure the kitten was 2 weeks old? Was the kitten able to eat cat food and use a litter box when she got him? Are you sure the he was 2 weeks and not 2 months?

You guys need to start from the beginning and that's understanding that a kitten can't be "trained" by spraying it or putting it in time out, you are making him the way he is so you need to stop right now. You are traumatising him into peeing outside the box. You're right, it's very likely he doesn't give you affection is because of the relationship you have with him now. You can fix it but it's going to take a lot on your part and a real commitment from both you and your girlfriend to learn the basics of what a cat is and how to bring up a kitten.

To be completely honest it really doesn't sound like a cat is the right pet for you guys. They do climb, they scratch the couch, they are a predator and a rabbit is prey, cats are clumsy and knock things on the floor. You can't stop them being a cat. What you can do is get a pet that suits you better.

He was 2 weeks old. We gave him milk for the first couple of weeks.

I need useful advice. There has to be some sort of way to discourage or train him not to do these things.
I've actually heard that the best way to teach a kitten not to do something is to put him in "time out" for 5 - 10 minutes and then bring him back in.
If you don't think that is the right way to discipline him then please suggest another way.


I know that cats climb so we bought him a cat climbing post. He has many toys.
I am aware that a cat is a predator but I know that it isn't impossible for them to live in harmony.
I can live with knocking things over but not intentionally breaking things and biting expensive things nor biting us.


I'm trying to find a solution to these problems rather than throw up my hands in defeat.
I don't like cats but it isn't fair to my girlfriend to force my feelings on the situation.
The cat makes her happy and that's enough for me to put up with him although I personally don't like him.

[fjm]

I think many of your problems probably stem from your kitten being separated from his mother and siblings far too early. 6 weeks would usually be considered the absolute minimum, with 8-10 weeks being the earliest kittens should really be homed. And the training methods you are using might work for a puppy, but are less appropriate for a cat. If you use aversives in training - like spraying or time outs - you need to do it in such a way that the kitten associates it only with the behaviour and not with humans, and that is extremely difficult. It sounds as if he is learning to be aggressive as a result, which is very definitely not what you want.

You don't train a cat by disciplining it - that is the wrong mindset. The cat will fight back tooth and claw. Focus instead on rewarding and encouraging good behaviour and you may begin to see an improvement. For example I don't think you can train a kitten not to climb on furniture - that is what they do - but you can perhaps teach one to prefer particular places, by putting a comfortable mat there, and dropping a treat or scrap of chicken every time he goes there. A fishing rod type toy may be more fun than knocking ornaments off surfaces. Kitten proof your home, putting valuables out of the way just as you would for a puppy or visiting toddler, so valued possessions are less likely to be damaged. Set him up to succeed rather than to fail, and cut him some slack - this is a baby taken from his mother before he should have been, so you are going to have to provide all the care and love and education he would have got from her and from his siblings. Mishandled he may be fearful, and aggressive because of it, for the rest of his life, so if you possibly can I would consult a qualified behaviourist, who will be able to advise on specific ways of managing behaviours.

It sounds as if he is playing with the rabbit as he would with another kitten - stalking, pouncing, biting and wrestling. How does the rabbit react? Is it fearful, accepting, or does it play along? If the rabbit is small or in any way distressed I think you need to keep them apart; if the rabbit is considerably bigger than the kitten, and unworried by his antics, then supervise all interactions and distract the kitten from rough play with a treat or a game.

[Mollycat]

Ok thank you mmalone and I'm sorry for being abrupt.

2 weeks is crazy early to have left his mother unless there was no choice, 2 months or longer isn't just better it's really a minimum. But you are where you are now and all respect to you for wanting to make it work.

Yes cats and all kinds of prey species can work and the internet is full of cute cat and bird friends for instance. How is the rabbit responding to the kitten's behaviour? If the rabbit is happy, no worries. If the rabbit is uncomfortable, I guess that's your guide.

The reason I suggested a cat might not be the pet for you is because of the way you describe trying to train and discipline him. These methods have never worked with cats, cats are the only domestic animal we have that don't live in social groups and therefore mother is the last discipline they will ever accept, because there is nobody senior once they are independent. As the very wise fjm says, you need a complete change of mindset. You have to learn to think cat. And that means offering a better alternative to every detail of the slightest thing your kitten does that you don't want him to do, and guaranteed it won't work for everything - you also have to be prepared to lose on some or many of the issues.

I promise you your kitten is not intentionally breaking things, he is just knocking them over either to play or just because he is clumsy. Think cat, at least for now move the things that are precious to a place he can't knock them over. You need to end up with a home where you can look around and every item the cat can reach you can say, I'd be sad if that got broken but hey, I like it being there and that's a risk I take. I have a dog that has plush toys and he has his eye on one of mine that I paid good money for just before the dog came into my life - so the plush toy is safe in a box in the cupboard out of the dog's reach and sight. Sad because I bought it to have it, but if I have it the chances are I lose it, so I put it away and one day the dog will be gone and I can get the toy out again.

It's a shame things have reached this stage because a bottle fed kitten separated from its mother so early should have bonded to you and your girlfriend as replacement mommas and taken the right kind of guidance and discipline really well. In the old days when kittens were normally homed just weaned at 6 to 8 weeks I don't remember huge numbers of problem behaviour cats. Sure there were some issues with some hand reared cats but usually they were around over-dependency, obsessive padding, and sucking on people's clothes. Maybe what we expect from cats has changed, or maybe we have largely forgotten what a cat is supposed to be.

But anyway, changing your relationship with your kitten can work and I hope it does. I apologise for being so sharp earlier and will give all the help I can now that I see you really do want to get things right. It might not be easy.

Is he going to be an indoor only cat? If yes, he will need a lot more than just one scratching post. Plenty of climbing towers and perches, platforms to look down from and sleep, dens where he can hide and ambush the rabbit and your feet, toys, but most of all you and your girlfriend, plenty of time and play. This is where the joy is, and adjusting your mindset to see and feel the joy in a crazy playing kitten instead of feeling stressed about breakages and restricted areas. You have to create the playground where he can be free to be crazy to entertain you and give you that joy. If he will be allowed outdoors then the indoor environment doesn't need to be quite so catified but as you see now it still does need to be.

Discipline - you can't discipline a cat, as explained above. If he is well bonded to you and accepts you in a mother role, then you can do a lot with them just with your voice - a sharp "ack" for no and a high pitched light excited whatever word or noise you like for encouragement. I don't do treat training and some young kittens aren't interested in affection feedback, but those methods can work well for positive feedback. Punishment does not work with cats, full stop. It traumatises them at worst or at best leads to desensitisation, but achieve the desired effect it never, never does.

For sharp claws in you, ignore. Not ignore and carry on what you were doing, just stop and turn your back on kitten. Victoria Stillwell the dog trainer demonstrates this and positive reinforcement training very, very well, catch up with some of her videos on You-tube. For things like being on kitchen surfaces, what does the cat want? To be near you and see what you're doing, and maybe grab some food. So, maybe offer the cat its own perch to watch you from, give treats occasionally as long as it's on the perch or on the floor if you want, and if it jumps on the counter pick it up gently but firmly and put back on the floor with a simple No. Treats when the behaviour you want to encourage comes back. You could also maybe look into clicker training, there is a cat and dog team also on you-tube called Nana (border collie) and Kaiser the Bengal cat, and everything they do is achieved with clicker training. In fact, here's a sample https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5dIB2oF6sQ

The idea of time out does have a specific role in training but as I understand it it's more for calming down, for example when a dog is barking and growling at visitors, it isn't for a cat peeing outside the litter tray. Peeing outside the tray is always a sign of distress, cats are clean animals and a new cat in a new home will usually go all over the house searching for something that feels like its toilet, rather than pee in an inappropriate place. Punishment for peeing outside the right place is utterly confusing and distressing and will lead to much bigger behaviour problems and much deeper distress. Also if your cat is not literally caught in the act, it's too late. Unlike dogs who can usually still figure it out later, the cat's mind has gone on to other things in half a second and it's too late.

This is going to take a complete change in the way you think, the way you interact with kitten and in your home as well, and there are no guarantees that kitten will achieve what you want. But you can make huge improvements if you are committed to it and willing to make some sacrifices.


Edit to add https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vIjvEG01v4 for a good example of what can be achieved with only positive methods starting with a step by step guide. From 4.20 the counter training would be very useful. The rest is all tricks.

This one is really good and explains the theory as well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfsVw0ndFAQ