Advice please: getting a new kitten for our bereaved kitten

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loulouray
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Advice please: getting a new kitten for our bereaved kitten

Post by loulouray »

Hi everyone, this is my first time posting and would love some advice. Excuse the long post! We adopted two sibling kittens from the same litter very recently (a boy and a girl). They are now 13 weeks and seemed very close. Always playing together and snuggling together. Unfortunately, a couple of days ago, we had to take the girl to the vet for a procedure and she experienced a very rare reaction to anaesthesia. She stopped breathing and had a heart attack and while they resuscitated her it is now looking likely we will have to have her put to sleep as there has been significant brain damage. I am completely devastated even though we only knew her a very, very short time, not least as her brother no longer has his playmate. The first night he was calling for her. He no longer seems to be doing that now and is eating normally and is very affectionate and cuddly with us (before he was a bit more aloof).

I know introducing a kitten to another cat can be problematic, but do you think at such a young age, if we got another kitten roughly the same age, it would he preferable for him to have a playmate than be alone? At this young age would our existing kitten take on another non-litter kitten in the same way as he did his sibling? We would try to find another girl I think. We always envisaged having two sibling kittens who could grow up together and this is such a blow... any thoughts gratefully received as I've found loads of advice about bringing kittens into homes with existing older cats but nothing for similar aged kittens still so young. Thanks!
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Re: Advice please: getting a new kitten for our bereaved kitten

Post by Mollycat »

So sorry that you're going through this heartbreak for this little soul.

If I read your post right kitten is still here at this stage, is that right? I do understand you thinking ahead but even with brain damage depending on how she is affected you could have a special needs kitten ... unless things changed since you posted.

I've never been one for 'replacing' animals and cats are by nature solitary. Plus, your little lad isn't going to be a kitten for all that long before he grows into a cat, and as much as kittens and some cats like a companion, it isn't essential like it is with most of our domestic animals. To be honest my thoughts (and there will be lots of different thoughts) are to give yourself and your little lad some time to grieve - assuming this unfolds as you expect it to - before deciding whether you want another kitten and whether he needs a companion, or whether he is actually perfectly happy as an only cat.
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Re: Advice please: getting a new kitten for our bereaved kitten

Post by loulouray »

Thanks @Mollycat, I appreciate your reply. We are absolutely devastated. It seems so unfair and she was so full of life on Monday before I took her to the vet. We have two children aged 9 and 7 and it has been really hard on them as well. They are partly the ones asking if we can get another as they are very upset that one kitten has 'lost his sister' and he will be very sad (they of course think in human terms - I know he might miss her for a bit but he won't 'remember' his sister for long like humans would).

Yes, she is still with us but the prognosis isn't great. She hasn't made a lot of progress since the incident and basic functions still aren't there (she can't lift herself up at all on her legs, she isn't eating, she appears to have lost most visual reflexes and so on). So while we would absolutely consider a special needs animal, at present she has little quality of life other than being kept comfortable.

Thanks for your thoughts on another companion. How might we know if our remaining cat is happy being on his own? He had such fun with his sibling and it was so joyful to see. Eventually my husband and I will also have to go back to work (some days at home so we will be with him but some days at the office where he will have to be on his own) and I'm concerned he won't have a companion to stave boredom. The reason we got two was that a lot of advice said two cats were great for company if you couldn't always be home full time.
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Re: Advice please: getting a new kitten for our bereaved kitten

Post by Mollycat »

Yes it is a very difficult decision isn't it. I think in your position with two upset children asking, I would be more inclined to consider a second one. Little ones change the rules a bit don't they. I'm sure he would be very happy to have a playmate, I have no experience but I would guess at this age introductions would be much easier than adult cats as the drive to play probably dominates whereas when they are older territory comes to the fore. he may be one of those and at an age where he would do just fine alone but also be happy with a friend. They do say boys are more sociable, it's certainly been my experience with both the boys I have had over the years that they needed companionship. The one who had outdoor access would go recruiting and bringing friends home. The one who didn't would rush to the window crying and calling any time he heard another cat outside. In both cases, crystal clear that they needed another cat. None of my girls has ever been like that but the ones who have bene part of a multicat home have been fine - but we have never deliberately gone out to get another cat, it's either been driven by the resident cat or the resident cat has been happy to accept a walk-in and let them stay.

Against the odds sending best healing wishes to your little girl and hoping she recovers enough to come home and have a good quality of life, even if everyone has to adapt to her, and sending supportive thoughts to you and all your family.
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Re: Advice please: getting a new kitten for our bereaved kitten

Post by loulouray »

Thanks again @Mollycat for your kindness. Yes, the kids do change things! My daughter is particularly sensitive and she had already really bonded with the girl kitten. One final question with your expertise - given we will effectively have a choice, would you therefore recommend if we did get another getting another boy as the companion rather than a girl if you think they're more friendly? Or might that then cause territory issues? We would of course have both neutered either way.
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Re: Advice please: getting a new kitten for our bereaved kitten

Post by Mollycat »

As I understand it boys are easier but that might apply more to adult introductions, I'm far from the expert on introductions and lots of members will be better placed to answer that one. Not sure it matters much with such young kittens, and with patience and care even pretty difficult cats can often be happy together. I'm no expert, just too much time on my hands and care a lot about happy healthy cats.
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Re: Advice please: getting a new kitten for our bereaved kitten

Post by Ruth B »

I'm so sorry to hear what you are going through, it must be heart breaking, particularly not knowing if your little girl will recover at all or, if in the end, helping her on her way over the bridge will be the kindest option.

I have to say that even if she does recover to have a reasonable quality of life, i doubt she will ever be the playmate your lad wants. Having adopted a couple of young cats (6 months olds) several years ago I can say, from what I saw with that pair and other cats previously, female cats mature faster than males do. My, now 5 year old lad, wants to play rough and tumble, but the girl is far more interested in a quiet life. When you think about it, at 5 years a female cat would have had between 10 and 15 litters of kittens, where as a male cat would just becoming into his prime and starting to fight for the right to mate. It makes me wonder if you would be better with another male kitten who would play rough and tumble with your current cat for longer.

I would also add that assuming your girl survives you have to be prepared to have three cats, one of which is likely to be a special needs cat. You will need to think about how you can give her a good life and how you can stop the boys picking on her.

I can't really give any information regarding introductions as I've always ended up introducing adult cats, and have rarely followed a lot of the advice that is given, i've been lucky and things have worked out. I would think that if you follow all the normal advice, keep the new kitten separate for a bit, do the scent swapping so they get used to each other, including your girl kitten, you don't want your new kitten to suddenly come across her and treat her as an intruder. Then move on to feeding either side of a door, then opening the door at feeding time, finally i would say having play sessions with them both at the same time at opposite ends of the room, and playing in the room where your girl cat is. Make sure that everytime they encounter the scent and sight of the other cat(s) it is a positive thing, food, treats or play can all help.

Good luck with what ever happens.
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Re: Advice please: getting a new kitten for our bereaved kitten

Post by Mollycat »

I don't know if she's atypical (she seems to be in most ways) but Molly needed a rough play friend when I got her at 6 years old and she kept trying, poor love, giving up on Bobby when she was about 9-10 ish - by which time she was probably unwell. Bobby on the other hand was playful but terrified of Molly's attempts to properly playfight, he was 9 when she came. They compromised well by playing chase a LOT and she would hunt him as well. Neither of them were kittens, of course. She had been a single cat for at least 5 years so it's not as if she was just continuing.

There's always exceptions to every generalisation with cats!
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Re: Advice please: getting a new kitten for our bereaved kitten

Post by fjm »

I wrote a long reply, and seem to have lost it...

I am sorry you are facing the probable loss of such a young kitten - so desperately sad for all of you.

My admittedly limited experience of introducing kittens to each other has been very positive. Years ago my 9 month old cat immediately accepted a 3-month female kit into his home - I don't remember doing more than letting them first meet while she was in the carrier, and then supervising for the first half an hour. Slightly more recently I adopted two brothers, and when they were 9 months old one vanished. After searching for many weeks I had to accept he was gone - by then it was Christmas which I spent with my parents. Pippin was missing his brother, and his play fighting got hard to manage - his favourite game was to wait under a chair or sofa and ambush my sister's ankles as she walked by. Needless to say she was not impressed.

As soon as Christmas was over I started phoning the local rescues and located a female kitten close by, returned by her elderly first adopters for being too nervous and "feral". Her fosterer knew my mother, and brought the kitten round to meet us. Once she had relaxed a bit we let Pippin in - he looked at her, she fluffed up, he walked away, she followed and that was that. Within 10 minutes they were playing. within half an hour they were curled up together. Pippin had someone to play and cuddle with again and Tilly had a big brother to give her confidence, which proved to be exactly what she needed to thrive and be happy.

I would not recommend such a full on approach - that was 17 years ago and I would take things more gradually now! - but I do think kittens tend to be much less territorial than adults, and much more aware of the joys of having a playmate.
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Re: Advice please: getting a new kitten for our bereaved kitten

Post by loulouray »

Many thanks to everyone who has taken the time to reply. As a first-time cat owner and having to deal with this type of thing so soon, I really appreciate it.

The good (and slightly unbelievable) news is that it seems we have a little miracle on our hands - from a prognosis of significant brain damage and almost certain euthanasia on Tuesday, with minimal progress overnight on Tuesday and being asked by the hospital to come in yesterday to discuss the various options. When we went in yesterday afternoon she had made a bit more progress again since the morning and things were a little more positive, but she was still clearly poorly. The vets didn't think it was right just yet to consider putting her to sleep and wanted to give her a few more days of care. It was lovely to see her yesterday and the vets said she clearly recognised us as she was miaowing really loudly for our whole meeting which the vets said she had barely been doing in her kennel on her own. The main problem was that she wasn't showing the reflexes in her front legs so couldn't lift herself up to stand or walk, and we were told last night that if those didn't show signs of returning then she would have to be put to sleep as being unable to move would not give her any quality of life (and we accepted that).

This morning we get a call from the hospital and we can't quite believe it - she's walking around her kennel this morning! A bit wobbly, but walking nonetheless. The vets can't believe it either. One said to us that in 11 years he has never seen a case as bad as hers even survive let alone come back so quickly. There are still questions over how much vision she has, and her feeding also still needs a bit of care, but we can cope with a blind cat (that might be another forum topic in the weeks to come!) and the vets feel that as she is still so tiny - only 13 weeks - the likelihood is that quite a bit of that will come back in time as her brain is still growing and connecting at this stage.

They are talking about her coming home tomorrow or Saturday... and they also feel her brother will still remember her and learn her new limitations so we shouldn't worry on that front. So... fingers crossed there are no setbacks and that we won't have to get another kitten after all. Cats truly are amazing creatures. I feel guilty for doubting her fighting spirit! Thanks again everyone.
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Re: Advice please: getting a new kitten for our bereaved kitten

Post by fjm »

Oh that is wonderful news! Sometimes the miraculous does happen - you must all be so happy.
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Re: Advice please: getting a new kitten for our bereaved kitten

Post by Ruth B »

That is the most wonderful news I could have read today. Don't feel guilty for doubting her fighting spirit, it is our way of preparing for the worst, and just intensifies the joy when the miracle does occur. Brains are incredibly complicated things and we still only understand the bare minimum about how they work, she is young I'm not entirely surprised her brain has managed to rewire itself, but it still doesn't make it any less of a miracle that it did.

As for her vision, it might come back in time, if not she will be fine without it. I know of one family that adopted three cats from the rescue my cats came from, those three cats had just one eye between them. All three apparently manage fine and played together and you when they did you would never know which one had the eye. Ears, nose and whiskars make up for things in ways we can not begin to imagine. When I adopted my Mothers 17 year old cat when my Mother had to go into a nursing home, it wasn't until I got her home i realised she was almost blind, she had known her way around my Mother's house so well no one had noticed, only in a strange place did it show, she would walk to an inch or two of something then stop suddenly before going around it. She could jump onto things, particularly if she could get her nose and then front paws onto it, but jumping down was a bit harder for her, it must have truly been a leap of faith some of the times.
Old or young, cats never cease to amaze me, it is one reason I think we love them so much, we see how remarkable they can be.
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Re: Advice please: getting a new kitten for our bereaved kitten

Post by Mollycat »

"To within an inch of something" Ruth that's where the whiskers are the most extraordinary things. I remember reading the original Black Beauty, at one point a new owner doesn't like all those untidy whiskers on a horse and has them trimmed off. Later that night he keeps banging his nose searching for his food and water. I made a lot of mental notes from that book!

Much later, I met a couple who had a deaf and blind cat. They said you could put something down on the floor and the cat would walk up to it then around it, just the same.

Well someone here is peeling a lot of onions, all fingers crossed for her and all your family that her progress continues.
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Re: Advice please: getting a new kitten for our bereaved kitten

Post by Kay »

fantastic - do keep us up to date with how it goes
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Re: Advice please: getting a new kitten for our bereaved kitten

Post by loulouray »

Thanks again everyone for your support. Ella is still at the hospital but all being well we are hoping to bring her home today. She still has very limited vision - but they say she isn't bumping into things in her kennel so there may be something there. They also said it can take several weeks for vision to return with this kind of injury so it may get better gradually too. She is still needing help with feeding but if they put the food on their fingers or the syringe near her mouth she will turn to find it then lap it off so they are confident her feeding will keep improving and eventually she will be able to use her bowl. She is using her litter tray for wees too now so that's great. They feel being home with her brother will really help her as he can teach her 'cat things' again. Her walking is improving enough that we probably won't have to do any physiotherapy with her. We've borrowed a dog pen so we can keep her in her own little space to start with in our living space but she can still be around us and her brother and she will sleep separately in the bathroom too for a while until she learns where everything is again so she's safe. We are so looking forward to having her back although we can't quite believe it either! Her brother is clearly missing her - he has gone super cuddly and follows me around the house and he's definitely off his food a bit. Slightly nervous about it too of course. Will update on progress...
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Re: Advice please: getting a new kitten for our bereaved kitten

Post by Mollycat »

That's absolutely amazing news.

I don't want to put any kind of damper on it but be prepared that sometimes the cat that stays home can get a bit hissy for a while with the cat coming home from a stay at the vet's. They smell funny! Same happens when an entire tom is taken to be fixed, the girls back home can be quite mean to him. Not saying that will happen, it may not, but just be prepared that if he does get funny with her, it can be managed and is nothing to panic about.
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Re: Advice please: getting a new kitten for our bereaved kitten

Post by loulouray »

This is exactly what has happened! We have a big open plan space downstairs and we have penned off an area with a dog pen for Ella. Duke can also roam around the same space but not get in the dog pen. There was lots of hissing and a bit of growling yesterday. A few times he tried to swat at her through the bars of the pen and we distracted him with a toy which seemed to work. Other times he just watched from a distance. In the evening when we thought he was asleep we went to lift her out the pen for a cuddle and he was instantly awake watching us :-D We have to be careful as she cannot see him coming atm so his swatting could scratch her... what we thought was really interesting was that she also growled and hissed at him - so nice to know she still has that awareness and understanding of another cat nearby even though she can't see him. We took one of the blankets he (and she) use in their bed when we picked her up from the vets and we've been rubbing both of them with it since we got her home to transfer the smells. At night we take her up to our bathroom so she is completely safe away from him.

Today he came up to the bathroom (door was closed) and sniffed around outside the door quite a bit but only growled a couple of times. Anything else we can do? The vets seemed keen we don't keep them completely separate all the time so she can be downstairs with us and stimulated. We don't want to lock Duke out the downstairs either as that is where he spends most of his time and his litter tray and food etc is there so he might resent her and us more if he gets banished from his usual spots. Obviously we are always watching when both are downstairs. Maybe we just need to give it a few days.
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Re: Advice please: getting a new kitten for our bereaved kitten

Post by Mollycat »

It sounds like your instincts and vet guidance probably have it covered, in extreme nasty cases they can have to be separated and reintroduced as if they were strangers but that's extreme. Keep giving them both positive experiences associated with being calm near each other through the pen, being food, treats, fuss, praise, catnip, and a calm but encouraging vibe from people around. I know it's human nature but try not to feel sorry for her, be anxious or favour her, even if he seems to be the aggressor don't think of him as the naughty one, it will only cause more problems. They are just two kids having a disagreement, they will sort it out with your guidance but the special needs one doesn't need to become spoilt. It won't be long before it's no handicap to her so don't make it one, if that makes sense, by becoming overprotective.
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