Molly's New Challenge

For all your feline miscellany - any interesting stories, news or subjects that do not fit in the other sections.
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Mollycat
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Molly's New Challenge

Post by Mollycat »

Since we lost Boo-cat in late summer two years ago, the boys in the house (dog and husband) have been missing a boy cat, while Queen Molly has seemed fine as an only cat. But I do have a small nagging doubt, especially as the yowling has started again and she has been much more sociable in the reduced hours when she is awake - she is pushing 15 and has some discomfort when walking if we don't keep up the Devil's Claw supplement.

We live in a second floor flat with a door entry system. A few weeks ago a handsome black cat started hanging around outside. As the weather has turned nasty we have taken steps to find his home and although I haven't spoken directly to the suspect we are reasonably confident whose cat he is. It seems he may have good reason for not spending much time at home, based on the testimony of a trusted friend and neighbour who has already rescued five cats from the same house. They are not actively mistreated.

But when a cat chooses to sleep out in the rain on a pile of dead leaves at the base of a wall, on the off-chance of a cuddle with someone going in or out, and stays there all night in freezing temperatures, when he has a warm dry home with free access by cat flap, my personal opinion is you have to take account of the cat's wishes and intentions, regardless of the microchip and for that matter the law might say. What I mean is, it's no good saying well he should go home, because clearly he isn't going to.

So feeling guilty in last night's storm I found Baggy a box and an old pillow, and after a very big cuddle session, left it at the spot he likes best. You've never seen a cat so happy. This? For me? Ooo soft (pad, pad, biscuits) and warm (settle and snuggle) - Thank you so much, kind lady (slink out, narrow eyes and purr) this is going to be just great for tonight (I'm getting back in again immediately!) and sure enough there he still was when hubby got up this morning. He now comes into the block of flats but gets very nervous if the door is closed behind him, and has ventured as far as the first level.

We live on the second level, where we already have a Molly. You can see where this is going, a lot of big questions, a lot of discussion and observation and always ending in "It's up to Molly" but whatever happens, it's To Be Continued ...
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Re: Molly's New Challenge

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In the end it is always 'up to the cat' in my mind, if a cat chooses to be out in all weathers you have to ask why, there was one up the road from me once, many years ago, who lived in a two bedroom house with at least 4 children of varying ages. I one time came home from work to find three cats on my bed, and it took me a moment to realise I only had two. He was a young male at the age when they are growing quickly and naturally appear a bit skinny, and he was often in looking for anything my pair had left in the bowls. It was about this time of year so I went knocking on doors concerned that he was a stray, and I upset the owner as I did describe him as 'on the scrawny side', but i had found out he had an owner so there wasn't much else i could do. Over the next few months i noticed him around a lot more and then talking to the women who lived the other side of my back fence, found out that she had ended up taking him in. She already had one cat, a big old lad named Sam, and as the youngster was also called Sam he became Little Sam, with an open catflap and an older cat not minding sharing territory there wasn't much the owner could do but accept the inevitable. A year or so later I noticed a small black cat in their window, it was there for a few months then i didn't see it again, so I have a feeling that one voted with its feet as well. Like the one you are thinking of, Little Sam and I have a feeling Little Black as well weren't really mistreated, but a busy household just isn't the right home for some cats.

All you can do is wait and see, and possibly get some nice straw instead of a pillow for him, straw doesn't freeze when it gets wet the same way a pillow or blanket can and still is nice and warm to snuggle down into. After that, well as you say, Molly gets the last word.
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Mollycat
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Re: Molly's New Challenge

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Thank you Ruth, your tale is comforting.

The plan is to bring the box in every day and only leave it out overnight, because in working hours it runs the risk of being carted off as rubbish. The bottom was slightly damp this morning but it quickly dried off in my flat and I added the dog's old rubber backed food mat for further insulation under the pillow - but noted about the straw, thank you.

The change in him overnight is incredible. Immediately he has woken up in the morning fresh and alert with smooth silky fur, unlike the slightly coarse texture they get when they have been fluffed up against the elements. He has such a lovely nature, I poked his pads and scrunched his sides this morning and his method of telling me to leave an irritation alone was to nuzzle my hand away with his nose in a headbutt kind of way, purring all the while. He is getting used to noises in the stairwell and calmer every time.

As for the dog, I had to laugh, as he got paddy-claws in his back and simply shuffled away, then when cat was startled by a noise outside dog went to guard the door for him and he relaxed a little. Cat went over to join dog and they sat looking out of the open door together, a conversation visibly happening between them with looks, twitches and head turns.

I see it all as preparation for the worse weather as we are barely out of autumn now and it will get nasty before it gets nice again. Softly softly catchy kitty.
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Re: Molly's New Challenge

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Tonight he came to the top of the stairs, and I sat with him on my lap for a long time. My door was open, Molly was inside. He purred and dozed and purred and squinted and purred. People in other flats came in and went out and he accepted my reassurance that everything was ok. At one point he wandered into our flat, into the bedroom where Molly was on the bed, and came back out for more cuddles.

After a while I heard Molly thud off the bed, and she came out to see what I was doing. The pair came face to face, but not nose to nose, about 12 inches away briefly but a couple of minutes at a more respectful distance. Cat had raised hackles briefly but I kept talking softly and reassuring them both and everything calmed down. Curiosity not hostility. Confidence from Molly as she turned her back on him and sat down. He seemed so unsure what to do but fascinated by her. She went back indoors and after a few more minutes I took Cat back downstairs and outside to his cosy box. I say took, what I mean is encouraged and accompanied, he was quite willing to go but not in any hurry.

A little each day, a visit every day, positive stuff each time, they could well be friends.
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Re: Molly's New Challenge

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Molly is a cat of many surprises. I can't imagine Tilly accepting another cat so easily, even though she grew up with Pippin.
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Re: Molly's New Challenge

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Cats are amazing and sometimes realise that there is plenty of resources to go around and are willing to share, and to realise that the other cat isn't out to compete and take territory, but just wants enough for a comfortable life.

One of the things that always surprises me is during a hot dry spell, my garden pond becomes the local watering hole, when everywhere else is bone dry the local cats, and i think some wildlife, know there will be water there. At other times my cats will chase any interlopers out of the garden, or make enough noise to get me to do the job for them, but during those hot dry spells they seem to accept that others will come in to drink, as long as they don't come closer to the house than the pond, they are left to slake their thirst unmolested.

I guess it is all these different reaction that make cat behaviour so interesting.
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Re: Molly's New Challenge

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Yes, they are incredibly adaptable, not least by the fact of living in feral colonies and multi-cat homes. My friends locally have twenty cats and a greyhound, and there were no issues when the two households merged bringing 8 to the resident 9 (3 kittens were rescued later).

He is in our flat tonight, his movements kept in check by a watchful wary Lady Grey and her impressive vocabulary of hisses and rhythmic low growls that sound more like a one-way purr than anything really threatening. Interestingly the dog positioned himself between them, he is the UN Peacekeeping Dog. At this stage DC Bagheera (Baggy) still has the front door open and is not interested in any food at all, but lies around quite relaxed. Especially in doorways. Especially on black carpet. He's going to be a trip hazard. it may be he becomes our night guest and goes elsewhere to eat, who knows. But Molly is our priority at all times and what she says goes, if she says he's out, out he will be, but she doesn't seem to be saying that at all.
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Re: Molly's New Challenge

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Hi Mollycat & Ruth B loved reading your posts on ‘Baggie’ & you’re both still on CC. Looking forward to updates. Weather reports on the radio in the late/early hrs that you’ve had some horrid weather. Needless to say the ‘land down under ’ especially Qld is hot & humid. Vivian & the ‘5 Catateers’.
Last edited by Mayday21 on Sun Dec 12, 2021 1:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Molly's New Challenge

Post by Ruth B »

I'm like a bad penny, I keep turning up.

I have to admit that CC is still a wonderful place, particularly when things are a bit hard. Tiggy has lasted longer than i expected, but she had a check up yesterday, and had lost more weight (from 3kg down to 2.7kg), so while she is lively enough a lot of the time, there are times when she just want to sleep either in her Igloo bed or on a knee and I do wonder just how much longer she will be with us. She has given us some scares over the last few years and i know I can always come here for advise or just comfort if there is no real answer.
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Re: Molly's New Challenge

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Hi Ruth B well said about comfort & understanding. Fusses to Tiggy. I seem to visit CC around this time to wish folks & their furbabes all the best for the upcoming Festive Season & 2022.
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Re: Molly's New Challenge

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Advice or comfort if there is no real answer - hold that thought.

Mayday we didn't overlap by much but I have a read a lot from your heyday and it's nice to see people not completely vanish - this isn't only about problems after all but an international community with one furry thing in common.

In relation to Bagheera, we have a problem, a big smelly problem, and in true Mollycat form I want to understand in order to help, rather than do what most might do and wash my hands of it and him. He is a widdler, and despite being done, his widdles utterly STINK.

Yesterday morning there was a faint whiff and I spotted a wet patch on Molly's radiator tower. Not a good start. Enzyme cleaner ordered, Baggy more than willingly went out for the day, and soon after we went out for the day. He didn't try to come in on our return and as it was a mild night we happily left him out. But on walking into the flat the smell hit us and we had to go on the hunt for the source. He had been on the hall carpet outside the bathroom, which is the first room on the left, and inside the bathroom on a dirty t-shirt that had been left on the floor. It's pee not spray. We want to figure it out in order to help him. Perhaps he is banished from his home for the same reason. perhaps he was never house-trained, which I find hard to believe. Perhaps it's protest. Maybe he doesn't recognise Molly's litter as the place to go, or is respectfully avoiding her marked toiletting place. Is he actually happier outside with a box and registering a protest, or was the 12 hours he was in simply too long to be cooped up.

This morning he greeted me when i let the dog out, he was wet but not cold, he had something to say, we had a 10 minute cuddle then I put his back down on the wall and he didn't protest when I went back inside. As I rubbed his fur I noticed how thick it is, like a cat that has always been out at night and is probably very happy to have the freedom.

Thoughts welcome.
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Re: Molly's New Challenge

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Sounds to me like a cat that has not had the option of an acceptable litter tray indoors and has got used to using any suitably soft, absorbent surface if he can't get outside. You might be able to redirect him but it could be a challenge - our homes are full of his idea of perfect toilet surfaces, and I don't need to tell you how difficult it can be to change a cat's mind! Perhaps short visits, an occasional refuge if the weather gets really bad in your bathroom with nothing but a tray to pee on, a comfy box at night and lots of human contact from you and your neighbours would be his idea of the perfect life.
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Re: Molly's New Challenge

Post by booktigger »

Daft question, but are you sure he has been done, as neutered tom cat wee doesn't have the same smell. The other thing that can affect wee smell is UTI's which can also make them avoid the tray.
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Re: Molly's New Challenge

Post by Mollycat »

fjm - he does seem to love outdoors and people and cuddles, he is not a greedy cat (even leaves the food bowl outside) and is well groomed, even his claws have been trimmed, though that could have been done with just a tiny smoothed trim when he had his chip read. He is far from a stray, has a glossy sheer black coat and is very relaxed, all leading to the idea the outdoor life is a choice.

Unless he has the weeniest little nuts ever, I am 99% certain he's been done, but the smell makes me doubt too.

If my neighbour is right about where he comes from, there probably weren't any trays or not regularly changed anyway and as Molly had bene in hers he could have some kind of aversion. The amount he drank and the amount of pee certainly suggests a vet check ought to be in order because even if he hasn't had a water bowl there are puddles everywhere and the sheer amount just suggests something amiss. I think that's also why we didn't smell anything in the morning, it must have dried and concentrated all day in the heated flat. Phoo! It does smell like unneutered I must say.

Unless ......... could it be post neuter that he has started camping outside, and the hormones have not fully flushed out yet?
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Re: Molly's New Challenge

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Seeing as you mention tiny 'pompoms', there is a chance he has an undescended testicle, I did take in a stray once that the initial vet thought was neutered, but I knew from his first wee he wasn't, and when I took him to a second vet, turned out he had an undescended testicle. It can take up to 6 weeks for the smell to stop. He might not like sharing trays, Buster didn't (and sometimes wouldn't even go in his own again!)
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Re: Molly's New Challenge

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Hi Booktigger how are those two special mother & daughter furbabes you adopted so they could stay together my it must be 4 years ago? I did see a post from you & from memory it was advice against separating bonded cats as one wasn’t settling. Mollycat don’t mean to hijack your ‘smelly’ issue. My TC always does 2s on newspaper that the trays sit on. Wees in trays! Vivian
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Re: Molly's New Challenge

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Hi Vivian, I have indeed had 'the girls' for 4 years now. Still can't touch them, but they do interact in their own way, and I think a combination of lockdown and me working from home have helped a lot, they are getting brave in little ways, like when it's their night out, if Coco is on the sofa under the stairs, she will let me walk past her to go in the kitchen, its like she's realised that all I'm going to do is get their bowls to feed them. Really must post some pics, they are really dark now.
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Re: Molly's New Challenge

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Mayday21 wrote: Sun Dec 12, 2021 7:55 pm Mollycat don’t mean to hijack your ‘smelly’ issue. My TC always does 2s on newspaper that the trays sit on. Wees in trays! Vivian
Not really my problem unless I choose to make it so. On balance we could have taken on the challenge and Molly most likely would have accepted him in time, and I had a plan in mind for how to tackle it, but he himself hasn't been fussed about trying to come in again. And if he is happy out there, he may be tweaking our human guilt, but perhaps we should respect that he is just fine and has after all chosen his life. If he was looking for a home, he would by now have realised there isn't one in this bock of flats and moved on. If he wanted to be indoors we would have certainly helped him learn to be a good house cat, but he doesn't. I shall try to find a more secure little house for him.

Vivian, thankfully there was no poo at all as I dread to think where he might have hidden that, but the wees were so stinky. And I'm not territorial about discussion threads :D
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Re: Molly's New Challenge

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Some cats do seem to prefer to be outside as long as they have somewhere dry to sleep. The first cat I ever had was one like that. We got Rusty when i was 6 and he taught me so much about having a cat, primarily that a cat will do what they want to do. At the time, the house we lived in had an old stable building at the bottom of the garden/drive, the carriage house section was just big enough to fit the VW Golf we had in, and the stable side was used for storing garden equipment. Upstairs there was the old hayloft, and the flooring was iffy so me and my sister were only allowed on the bit right by the stairs, but it did get used for storing all manner of bits and pieces, including an old, tatty armchair that was meant to be thrown out, but had never got taken to the tip. Rusty claimed it as his, and in all but the harshest weather, you could often find him curled up on it in the hayloft. He had a cat flap (actually it was a hole in the door with just a wooden flap that could be used to close it entirely) so could come and go as he pleased, the house was large, a 5 bedroom Georgian affair, but was home to my parent, my grandmothers as well as me and my sister, and a couple of rooms were put over to my Fathers Dental surgery, so it was never the quietest of places, but there were plenty of rooms where he wouldn't have been disturbed, he just chose to live in the stables instead. In the end cats will be cats and as long as someone is watching out for them to make sure they are healthy and happy with their life, then sometimes we have to accept that.

I will admit that when you mentioned the smell my first thought was had be be snipped fully. I know the balls don't always decend and can be a problem, and while I don't know the problems it can cause in a cat, i know what a horse can be like when they aren't fully gelded. They are known as Rigs and are worse than geldings or stallions and wholly unpredictable, i've known one once, a stable had it on working livery, but could never use it for any student, it was just too risky, it is also the only one that I have heard someone seriously say they would send to the knackers yard if they had any say in the matter. I'm not saying Baggies like that, but if things went wrong when neutering, it could have left him a bit unpredictable for a time meaning the original owners weren't happy to have him in the house.
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Re: Molly's New Challenge

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Thanks again Ruth, Hubby mentioned Rigs, he has had horses in the past and knows his way around them pretty well too. No behaviour issues as far as we know, he is sweet and gentle even when I try to annoy him. The smell wasn't at the time, only when it concentrated down, but anyway we can't have that and more importantly Molly can't have that. We have worked so hard with her for 8 years and helped her come out of her shell so much that she has handled a temporary move and dared step outdoors, I know she would have coped with a friendly newcomer, but not if he's going to make her home and bed smell like that. As soon as I came back up without him, she relaxed.

And at long last even hubby realises now that although Molly could handle it, she is happier as an only cat, so Baggy gets his box and his freedom, and we wil get our break from vet bills when these two are gone. She is sleeping curled up next to me as I write with the biggest smile imaginable. Baggy for his part gets a cuddle every time I take the dog down for a pee if he's around, and doesn't try to get in.
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Re: Molly's New Challenge

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Finally managed to get an answer at the door of where we suspected Bagheera came from. So Sooty is indeed their lad, a little older than I thought, loves everyone, suddenly gone from lap cat to outdoor cat for no obvious reason a few months ago fitting with the time when he showed up at ours. He does go home, but never stays more than an hour and goes out again, and even there he sleeps in a plastic shelter in the garden and never inside the house. Two nights now he hasn't used the box I put out for him but both nights he has come with us to walk the dog and left us at a house on the far side of the park, so I suspect he might be having more luck getting his feet under the table there where they don't know him.

So that's that - OH commented as DC Sooty left us last night, it seems almost as though he wanted escorting safely through the park, as he was inside the flats and came yelling at us when we came out, then trotted the 300 yards or so across the road, down the lane and through the park with us. He's likely going to be a character in our lives for some time to come, but thankfully not our responsibility: the amount he drinks makes me nervous let alone his lack of road sense and general indiscriminate faith in the basic good nature of dogs.
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