In from the cold?

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Mollycat
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In from the cold?

Post by Mollycat »

It's that time of year again when the mornings feel decidedly nippy and the nights start to draw in. Our neighbour's cat who has been more than happy sleeping under a car or in a corner of the bin area has once again like last year started to get more cuddly and more demanding, and more like LET ME IN!

The cat in question is a handsome black 8-9 year old boy, who is perfectly happy to share with other cats and loves his cuddles. He "lives" in a house about 100 yards away where he never goes despite having a cat flap, food and nice warm beds, he just decided about 18 months ago he didn't want to be there any more and would rather sleep on a pile of wet leaves outside our block of flats in all weathers. His owner knows he is here and lets him make his own choices - what else can we really do when a cat makes a decision?

Anyway - Cat likes to accompany us on our dog walks, and we seem to be the cuddlers of choice - we never feed him, another neighbour does that. Last year one specially cold wet night we decided to see if we could adopt him, if Molly was agreeable to this idea. He spent the night in our flat and left in the morning. Molly held back, didn't hide but kept out of the way with an eye on him, and hissed if he got too close. He for his part was respectful of her but also largely ignored her, lying out seemingly relaxed and settled. To the casual observer it was a very positive first meeting, but to the trained eye there was a lot of tension and his apparently relaxed demeanour was actually quite challenging.

But here's the thing - in the morning we let him out, and in the late afternoon when we got home from work we noticed a wet patch and the smell. Did he pee on the carpet in the night and we didn't notice in the morning? Or did Molly wait till he left to make her mark and warn him never to darken her door again? Molly is a scrupulously clean cat, the visitor's record is unknown. Molly came here when there was a resident cat and there was never a problem, and her previous owner told me they tried to bring in another cat and Molly seemed friendly but the other was not and they had to rehome him. Molly is "trapped" being an indoor cat in a small second floor flat with no doors, so they can't be separated and introduced properly, but she is very adaptable and has coped with various challenges beautifully. He for his part likes spending most of his time outdoors being sociable, but seems grateful for a night out of the winter weather.

So we're currently thinking that when there's a really cold wet night Cat can come and stay on an occasional basis, Molly should hopefully get used to him in small manageable doses and relax, much as she got used to the dog, and we see where we go from there - if she isn't happy, he stays out. Input welcome - observations on the situation, questions, suggestions, experience, any input at all to help us make decisions!
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Re: In from the cold?

Post by susand »

I don’t know. I would worry that if black cat started coming in, he would get used to and then expect it, so this, combined with the fact that I would become more and more attached the more I saw of him, would make it very hard to say ‘no’ to him coming in if further down the line it didn’t work out. I’d probably end up convincing myself Molly was fine, even if she was showing signs of distress, because I couldn’t face turning Blackie away once he’d become part of the household.

This is why when I got a companion cat for Walter and she didn’t take to him, I took her back to the rescue quite early on and didn’t give her too much of a chance. I knew that if she stayed with me any longer I’d reach the point of not being able to rehome her because I’d become too attached, which wouldn’t have been fair on Walter.

However, I hadn’t learned my lesson and tried again with Harvey a few months later but feel very guilty because although Harvey was never aggressive towards him, Walter seemed not to like him and kept out of his way. He had two or three attacks of cystitis in the following few months, which he’d never had before, which as you know can be stress related, and he then got pancreatitis, which can also be stress related and he died from that about 6 months after I got Harvey. I feel his death was therefore my fault for bringing another cat into the home but since Harvey was well behaved towards Walter and I bonded with him quite quickly, I ended up letting Walter suffer, thinking he’d come round.

You may be different but I can only speak from my experience. I would find it hard to leave a cat in the cold though, I must admit. Presumably if he became too uncomfortable he would use the cat flap in his official home. If not, is there anyway to put a temporary outdoor shelter for him in very cold weather?
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Re: In from the cold?

Post by Ruth B »

I remember last year when you invited him in. As for this year i've a couple of thoughts and suggestions.

A single night really ins't the way to introduce cats and to judge their option of each other, but i'm guessing the flat isn't really big enough to do full on introductions, particularly if you aren't wanting to actually adopt him.
If you are worried about him outside could you rig up some type of shelter for him outside. It wouldn't need to be anything fancy, just a wood or plastic box with some straw inside, a place that is warm and dry in a place where he wants to be.

As for what is happening inside, two things I've found very useful, a UV torch to check for spraying, and the little security camera. the UV torches start at about £5 and the camera I have is only £20, its indoor only, but connected to a smart phone or tablet, it will notify you of movement and record a 10 second clip, which is enough to see what a cat is up to. Mines been used for watching the cat flap for visitors (we still have one who comes at night to clear up any left over food, we don't really encourage him but have decided not to dissuade him either), it was also great when we first had Teddy as it meant I could see what he was up to when we weren't in the room. Its range isn't particularly good, about 10' to detect motion, but indoors that is penty, or at least with my small rooms it is. I don't use it all the time now, but if ever I think I might want to see what is going on while I'm out, i can set it up and activate it.

It always makes me wonder why a cat would choose not to go home and prefer to sit out inthe cold and wet. There was one, not long after I moved in, kept coming in to mine, pinching food, and one day i found him, along side my two curled up on the bed. After askign around I found he did have a home, but it was one with 4 young children in a small two bedroom house, and possibly other animals as well. I guess he wanted peace and quiet, and ended up moving in with a neighbour over my back fence. We also have a friend with a cat, and the number of times we would come home from work and see her sat out side the front door waiting for him to come home. It would have been pitiful and i hate to think how many people thought it was mean to leave her shut out, however we knew she had a cat flap in the back door anc could get inside any time she wanted, she just prefered to sit and wait for him to come home and go inside with him.
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Re: In from the cold?

Post by Mollycat »

An outdoor shelter would be ideal, but being housing association flats it could easily be carted away, and the form of shelter would have to be considered as carefully as its location so as not to trap him conveniently for some nasty dog - I am a bit paranoid about this now having rescued my neighbour's cat from a dog last summer. Feasible with thought and always the risk of having to make another.

Ruth, yes I agree a night visitor isn't a very good method, the idea comes from Sooty's love of being outside, so if we did let him come in it would only be nights anyway at most. So Molly would have her home to herself in the day, which could be easier for her, or could make it harder for her to accept him if she never knew if he was in or out.

Do the cameras record a 10 second burst then? Because if it was Sooty it would happen while we're asleep. Being aware that it happened before we'd be more vigilant and check if hotspots were dry when he left in the morning, so any wet patches would definitely be Molly.

Susand I think hubby and dog are already very much attached to Sooty. Despite it being me who gives him most cuddles outside and is most concerned for his well-being, I am a lot tougher because I want to protect my Molly - but if she would warm to and benefit from a companion, then I want that for her! It's pretty much a given, unless he finds himself another home before then, that once Molly goes I won't have a choice, we will have a lovely black cat whether the dog outlives her or not, I have accepted that. It's just what happens while Molly is still around. The age gap is 7 years so it's fair to assume it's likely Molly will leave a vacancy just as Sooty needs it most. Even if she lives into her 20s he will still be the age she is now.

Fingers crossed for a mild dry winter, I think I'll have a think about outdoor shelters.
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Re: In from the cold?

Post by susand »

If you are worried about the shelter being removed, perhaps you could bring it in during the day and only leave it out at night or on the odd occasion when it is absolutely freezing during the day, perhaps with a note attached to discourage any council workers on a clean-up mission from removing it (might not work but worth a try).
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Re: In from the cold?

Post by Ruth B »

The camera will record and save a 10 minute clip whenever it detect movement, depending on the notification settings it can just send a banner message, make a pinging sound or do nothing. The only problem is that it records whenever it detects any movement, and you miht be surprised by just how much wandering a cat can do in the night while you sleep. When i've had it watching the cat flap over night I normally have 60+ clips to go through in the morning, so when it is all quiet and I'm happy with what is going on it is deactivated, but it is great for over night if you want to know what is going on. For me it is also good as it means i can check out night time visitor and make sure his condition doesn't deteriorate, and that there are no obvious injuries etc. For you I'm more thinking that one would let you know who is making any mess outside the litter tray, and if it is Molly and she only does it after he has been in, you would know she wasn't happy, if he was doing it, then you would have to decide whether that was something you could accept or whether it meant he couldn't be allowed in. I thought about it as you said you remembered smelling it one time last year and weren't sure if it was the visitor or Molly after you had gone out.

As for a shelter, if you have a butcher close by, it might be worth asking if they get any meat in one of the polystyrene boxes, and if you could have one. They are great for cat shelters, waterproof, insulated and easy to cut a hole or two out of them so he would always have an exit and not be trapped.
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Re: In from the cold?

Post by Mollycat »

Susand that all depends, a light box I could bring in up two flights of stairs daily, but anything bigger or more solid (and weatherproof) would have to stay downstairs where the housing association is even more likely to dump it.

Ruth that could certainly identify the pee culprit couldn't it, and to be considered. It would probably only need to cover the hallway, as the bathroom door seems to be the place (dog has also used it once when desperate and thankfully used the bathroom floor the time his bottom exploded while we were at work)

Molly kept me awake from 4am today, waking me every time I dozed back off so that she didn't miss a minute of her hour and a half cuddle before I get up. Once I've been up and fed her - not just her breakfast in her dish but also k/d dry by hand from the bowl right in front of her - give it half an hour tops and she's gone back to bed - our bed, without me, so is all the wake-up wake-up thing just a ploy to get me out of HER day bed I wonder? I threatened to turn her into a Davy Crockett hat, she's the colour for it, so maybe the sneaky dog is reporting all this back to Sooty and he thinks his time is coming.
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Re: In from the cold?

Post by susand »

One of those polystyrene meat boxes Ruth B mentioned wouldn’t be heavy and should be weather-proof enough.
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Re: In from the cold?

Post by Mollycat »

Watching Molly more closely and the way she responds to Sooty's smell on my hands, thinking of all I have asked her to accept and how beautifully she has adapted, I don't want to ask this of her if I don't have to.

So I will focus on a shelter for Sooty and keep giving him cuddles and letting him tag along on short walks with the dog, but it's Molly's home and we are her family and she is my absolute priority.

What form the shelter takes, we will see - Sooty has spent a couple of nights in the old box from last year we thought he didn't like, but last night it rained so it's time to sort out something more weatherproof.

Thanks all for your input, it has actually helped a lot.
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Re: In from the cold?

Post by Ruth B »

A cat house doesn't need to be anything fancy, a plastic or wooden box for stability and water resistant (cardboard has a habit of soaking up water and collapsing), possibly some insulation board to hold the heat inside and some straw for the bottom (far better than blankets for keeping a cat dry if they go inside when wet). There are plenty of videos on Youtube that show how to make one.

i have to agree, Molly comes first and you know her reactions well enough to tell that she isn't happy about his scent in the house just after you have been fussing him. I have always been the type that puts the resident cats first, and the only time I felt i really had to make it work regardless was with my Mothers old cat. I've been heart broken when i had to hand a cat back to the charity she came from as my then resident cats could not accept her, but now know it was the best thing i could have done for all three cats involved. I learnt a lot after that experience and now realise that cats and humans see things very differently and rather than just going along with what we want, we have to try and see things from their point of view before any decisions are made.
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Re: In from the cold?

Post by fjm »

I wonder if something like this little pop up tent might do the trick if you could find a bigger version, especially if you lined it with thermal cloth or a space blanket? https://www.petplanet.co.uk/p28096/rose ... _tent.aspx

It would fold up small enough for you to bring it inside when not needed, or even put it in the boot of the car, and with a heavy piece of board or stone in the base should stay put overnight. Filled with dry leaves or similar for bedding there would be no mess for people to complain about.
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Re: In from the cold?

Post by Mollycat »

How sweet fjm that is adorable.

Well he likes being under my husband's van, especially when he manages to park it in the space nearest the flats, so it also occurred to us that a decent box within reach underneath and taken out and put inside the van any time the van is moved, which is daily, could be a solution. I'm still worried about passing dogs, so would prefer something with more than one way in and out, but then that's an open invitation to the wind. He is quite dog-savvy as I see when he walks with us.

Otherwise we have plastic crates with lids so one of those could almost certainly fit the bill. Only one thing though Ruth, I'd have to buy straw specially in a suburban council estate. Leaves are in season and that was what Sooty originally chose but they have a nasty habit of not staying dry long!
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Re: In from the cold?

Post by Sniper1 »

Personally I would think very long and hard about putting a shelter anywhere public access or noticeable to other communal residents and their respective visitors ,delivery drivers etc. I would be worried about the attention it may bring to a vulnerable cat living outdoors and all kinds of possibilities of cruel and meen acts people are capable of . I'm not saying don't help the little soul but I wouldn't be inclined to take that particular option
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Re: In from the cold?

Post by Mollycat »

I hear you Sniper1 I've got the same dilemma, especially as I still can't park my car in the corner where my neighbour's cat managed to escape under it when I rescued her from a dog attack, I still get flashbacks.

Sooty has chosen to live outdoors for well over a year now, possibly nearer two. We have two bin areas and a recess under the neighbour's window about big enough to park 2 motorbikes. This last one is the most open area and it's where he chose to sleep on a pile of wet leaves last winter until we got him a box. The bin areas are much better as they are hidden from sight by a 6ft wall but only one way in, though he can do the wall if he needs to, but bin people go in there to collect and empty the bins and could easily think a shelter needs to go!

But yes I am thinking it needs to be safe, out of sight, and with an escape, as well as warm and dry.
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Re: In from the cold?

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Well he has taken to going with us on our evening dog walk, meaning that a 200 yard round trip to the park takes the best part of an hour. When he falls behind too far the dog races round to find him like a well trained sheepdog, and we all have to wait while he does his sniffathon. As long as we give him cuddle time and a walk, he is happy. I opened my car door to get out yesterday and he was there, hopped in and started padding and purring on my lap!

He definitely doesn't want a new home. The other morning it was raining and the main door was jammed wide open. He was sitting outside on the wall in the rain, when he could have walked inside and even up to our flat.
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Re: In from the cold?

Post by susand »

Just a thought, could he be put in your hubby’s van at night, with a bed and a litter box? He might not like being shut in at first but may get used to it and come to appreciate being a bit more comfortable, especially as he gets older. He would be safe and warm and he can be let out each morning.

The only problem is if your husband forgets to let him out before driving off to work. That could end in disaster but unless your bloke is particularly forgetful, not a massive risk I would have thought.
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Re: In from the cold?

Post by Mollycat »

It's a lovely idea, but I don't think shutting him in would be appreciated. Bear in mind the one night he spent in our flat he left us a very smelly wet shirt. He seems to love the freedom of coming and going and still has a home with a cat flap, so he does have the option of warm and dry. I keep having to remind myself of this when he comes to greet us in the morning soaked to the skin! IHe does use his cardboard box sometimes and the longer that stays there the more I think some kind of simple shelter outside where he wants to be is going ot be our best option for helping him.

As he is 6-7 years younger than Molly I am hoping his age when she goes will help him decide to come inside at night, he doesn't want to at the moment but maybe as the winters get tougher on his senior bones ... anything is possible. Maybe it's just as humans feeling guilty and he wants none of our concern for his welfare!
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Re: In from the cold?

Post by susand »

You are right Molly. I was trying to think of a way to keep him warm and safe without encroaching on Molly’s territory and had forgotten that he does have his own home and chooses not to use it. Some cats are like that. We had a cat like that near where I live. He had a perfectly good home but opted to spend his days curled up on a shelf in Morrisons Supermarket! He sadly got run over in the car park about 2 years ago. I do miss seeing him when I go to do my shopping,
Last edited by susand on Tue Oct 18, 2022 9:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: In from the cold?

Post by susand »

There he is, in the Easter egg section. This photo is from his Facebook page “Milo the Penrith Cat”.
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Re: In from the cold?

Post by Mollycat »

Oh a ginger that wasn't colourfast!

Gorgeous pudding.
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Re: In from the cold?

Post by susand »

He was. He became an important and much loved member of the local community and everyone was heartbroken when he died.
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Re: In from the cold?

Post by Mollycat »

As we had our first proper frost this morning, an update is due.

Sooty began to use the old cardboard box from last year around the corner sheltered from the wind and passers by but exposed to the rain, still with the old pillow I put in it for him, but he also liked the big pile of dry fallen leaves under the porch but exposed to the wind. Thinking of straw I grabbed a large double handful of leaves and shoved them into the box for him.

A week ago I was also finally able to administer his tapeworm treatment. Since then his fur has got really silky and soft again, his eyes are bright and he is happy to be picked up - something he had not been for a little while. And he's climbing our legs for cuddles again, walking with us and the dog again, in short he's largely back to his old self and although I haven't seen any sesame seeds I will still give him a second dose after Christmas.

He has hardly left the box since I shoved some leaves into it. When he does emerge, despite his back being exposed at the entrance, he feels warm and dry to the touch. Sometimes he just doesn't wake up or move. So now my plan is simply to add a few more layers of cardboard on the top with a little porch, and he seems very happy without anything spent to worry about it being trashed or spirited away.
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Re: In from the cold?

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Yesterday morning I came down started opening up as normal, walked in to the lounge and found someone asleep on the sofa. As I had my IPad in hand I managed to get a quick photo as he woke up before, with a scramble of paws on laminate and a few hisses from my crew who had come down stairs with me, he rapidly left the building.

He is known and Felix and is a community cat, others on the street feed him and let him in their house at times, but I guess he is turfed out at night. We don't have a microchip cat flap and he has learn this. He has been coming around for a while now, he is one of the reasons i have the camera watching the cat flap (which also got some wonderful footage of a thief's trainers when they broke in). Normally Felix comes in eats any left over food and leaves, occasionally enjoying a catnip sardine on route, normally he would be in less than 10 minutes. I noticed the other night he had been in for almost an hour, and Freyja had even come down to go out and use the garden while he was in. I thought he was just laying low until she had gone back upstairs. Then I come down to this.

Checking the camera he had come in about 1.00 in the morning, I guess he decided to stay and have a bit of a snooze, and then over slept. Last night he was in for about 3 hours but made sure he was up and out before we got up.

He isn't making the place smell like one of the other visitors did, and as far as we can see he hasn't been making any mess anywhere, he may have used the litter tray, but i can't really complain about that. I can't really begrudge him popping in to see if there is food available and then staying to warm up in this weather. I dont' really want to claim him, not only do i not really want a forth cat, I also don't want to tread on any neighbours toes. I have the camera so I can see him come and go, and if he deteriorates in any way or looks like he needs vet treatment then I will have to talk to people about it. There is a bit of a balancing act between looking after him and not upsetting other people who believe they are looking after him.
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Re: In from the cold?

Post by Mollycat »

How lovely and clever of him to find a safe warm sleeping place under a caring watchful eye. Should we consider you now to have three and a half cats?
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Re: In from the cold?

Post by Ruth B »

I guess so. I'm not wanting to encourage him in, but I also don't mind him being in when it is so cold and as long as he isn't marking territory or upsetting my other cats. One of the reasons for keeping the camera active was so that I can keep an eye on him and if he needs help work out some way of getting him it. I guess I've accepted that if he needs vet treatment I will be paying for it, I couldn't see him in pain and not do something, not upsetting neighbours is all very well, up to a point, and then I don't care. I also know that even if he is a community street cat, an adult black and white cat in a shelter is just going to spend all the time watching other other cats and kittens get chosen while they are over looked, so for the time being he is probably better off where he is.
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Re: In from the cold?

Post by Mollycat »

I feel largely the same about Sooty. I don't feel comfortable asking his legal owner for funds if needed when he has barely seen his cat for two years, I just hope he doesn't rack up any serious bills on my watch.

If Felix has a warm place to sleep he is that bit less likely to need help, hopefully, and you never know what can happen. After all your cats can smell him so if they are not upset anything is possible.
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