How do I convince my friend to get a darn litter box for his cats?

[Joe_Danger]

My friend likes cats alright but for some reason he refuses to provide proper care, he says it's his family more so than him, now keep in mind in my country it's normal for people to live with family regardless of age.

Anyway, he took a cat his neighbor didn't want in and of course wouldn't get her fixed for 2 years, she had two litters or three one after the other since he lets her go out, I kept telling him to get her fixed, he refused. Eventually they got her fixed not too long ago, except I learned it wasn't them, it was the neighbor who originally owned the cat.

He decided to keep one of her kittens too, again he won't get him fixed and what's even worse they refuse to put a litterbox in the house. They live in a building, sure they let the cats out to do their business but ever so often there are accidents in the house, I kept telling him it's in a cat's best interest to have a litterbox even if she does her business outside, now he keeps both cats with no litter box and refuses to get one...at least one dammit
I mean, he loves his cats, he feeds them and all, but they really do need a litter box in the house, especially since he decided to keep an unfixed male.

Now the male, 10 months old, has been gone for 2 days because his brother who btw is a major douchebag let him out one night even though they supposedly never let the male out at night, so now my friend is antagonizing over this and fighting with his family when it all could have been prevented by simply getting the cat fixed and getting a litter box.

I understand I too didn't fix Milla, but for one she is a pure bred persian and finding homes for her kittens isn't a problem, second my vet is the one who initiated that and has been providing steady support for months now, but my family provides our cats with the same care as we would for people. I was raised to never differentiate between animal and human lives and my whole family follows this code.

On the other hand at my friend's house, while well taken care of, his family is divided, some like the cats, some don't, some tolerate them or change their stance depending on mood.

Am I overreacting to this? Clearly the cats have been in discomfort over the lack of a litterbox one too many times.
When the mother cat's first litter arrived he kept and raised them at home, second litter mere months after that he raised in the hallway of the building. Now, plenty of stray cats live here and have kittens, they're in good health and people take care of them but if you're going to keep one or TWO in this case home...dude provide them with at least one litter box.

[Lilith]

Yes, you'd think the obvious would occur to people - but so often it doesn't. That male will be spraying everywhere, if he isn't already.

I'm afraid I can offer no useful solutions - but I must say, I reckon that if anyone can convince them, you can

[Anonymous]

I would stop mentioning letterboxes to him at all. That isn’t really an issue for the cats as they are not confined, once your friend steps in a cat poo at 5 am he will choose to provide more toilet facilities eh?
What is a REAL issue is the over breeding...... You need to convince him to neuter ALl the cats..... Or you are going to be looking at sick, starving kittens and mothers..... Been there and it is bloody horrible...... Focus on the spay and neuter. Persuade your friend about that. And who cares of he gets **** in odd places eh? He WILL learn!

[Joe_Danger]

I tried convincing him for 2 years straight to get the mom cat fixed, they refused
Fortunately the neighbor who originally kept the cat caught her and got her fixed a few weeks ago so that's good.
She had a bunch of litters one after the other.
I kept telling him to get the male fixed but he wouldn't budge, now he went off somewhere so my friend is freaking out and at least he is considering it now.
As for the litterbox thing, well his cats have accidents one too many times so they clearly need one, but yeah talking about it is pointless.

I hope the boy comes home and my friend gets him fixed, at least he is considering it now.

[lilynmitz]

The unneutered boy is now off doing what comes naturally to a hormonal adolescent - looking for sex and fights. They have only themselves to blame, and there will be yet more unwanted kittens having to fend for themselves in the streets, ultimately breeding and increasing the problem. If you can, grab this boy, take him to the vet and get him done, as your neighbour did with the female, and just don't tell them.

As to the litter problem, it probably doesn't bother the cats all that much, but I simply can't understand why anyone would prefer cat wee/poop on the floor and furniture all round the house and the associated appalling smell and lack of hygiene rather than the simplicity of containing it in a litter box which is easy to clean out. Why on earth is a litter box considered worse than the smell of cat urine, and cat poo on the carpet??? I can't figure people out sometimes. But if that's what they prefer, logical argument really isn't going to work on them. If they can't see the point in getting cats neutered, and are happy to step round cat poo on the carpet, it's hard to imagine how you get through to people like that.

[Joe_Danger]

I hope the cat comes back and my friend decides to get him fixed, he lives far from me so I have no way of easily getting there and looking for the cat much less catching it and fixing it lol
My friend does love his cats a lot, I guess they don't have accidents often enough but they still have them enough for him to mention they sometimes pee in the house and unfixed cat pee reeks so...yeah

I think maybe if the cat comes back he is going to get him fixed
But he is the type who bounces between "I'm keeping the cats" to "I'm done keeping cats" on a daily basis

God help em all I say

[lilynmitz]

Some people cant be trusted with pot plants, let alone cats. Sad world.

[Joe_Danger]

Good news, the cat came home today with what my friend suspects is a broken leg so hopefully my friend will take him to the vet tomorrow to make sure the leg is fine, it may not be broken my friend isn't sure, his dad did his best to clean it and wrap it in bandages. My friend wasn't too eager to take the cat to the vet, he literally told me he has never ever been to a vet before....

I don't understand this, they're so weird

on one hand they seem to care for the cats on the other they treat them like objects.

For example my friend said yesterday that he now doesn't like the mom cat anymore because she reminds him of the one that got lost so he won't be taking care of her anymore, plus she eats too much.
On the other he says he loves cats more than humans and worries about them.

I'm very confused
I know he cats are well fed, he buys them food and even gives them home cooked food and what not.
But there's something strange about the whole situation, like sometimes they care and sometimes they don't. I don't get it

Here's hoping he takes the cat to the vet tomorrow, he lives far from me so I can't just go and do it myself nor would they approve of that, I haven't even been to his house ever since while we are friends we aren't like very close friends or anything.

I'm confused
He does care about the cats, says stuff that indicates he cares but at the same time he doesn't follow through with what needs to be done.
Also he is under peer pressure that getting a male cat fixed is apparently unfair and wrong, which appears to be common here I dunno I just don't know lol

[Mayday21]

Hi if the leg is damaged in any way he needs to take the cat to a vet! It's cruel not to. I hope he does. How would he like to have a damaged leg & not be taken to a doctor or a hospital? Also as the cat has come home, the cat obviously thinks a lot of your friend & thinks he will look after him. Keep us posted. No doubt others will post their thoughts/advice. Vivian

[lilynmitz]

I'm sorry, not to be too blunt about it, but I am increasingly of the opinion that your friend is a fool and that his neighbours advising him are the same.

1. The cat needs to be taken to a vet if he thinks it has a broken leg, not just bandaged up by his dad. If it was your friend's leg that was broken, can you imagine the pain he'd be in, and how fast he would get himself to hospital? You say your friend cares for his cat, but if he's even hesitating getting him to the vet, he clearly doesn't. It takes more to care for a cat than just give it food.

2. Cats do not think like humans about masculinity. It is not an animal's divine right to breed indiscriminately and create yet more miserable and neglected strays to be abused, injured and starved on the streets and beaten up by all the other un-neutered tom cats. The fact that he didn't neuter him is almost certainly the reason he went of wandering and then cam back to his "home" in this state, to an uncaring owner who is so dopey that he can't see the blindingly obvious in front of him, ie that his cat needs urgent veterinary attention, and not when he feels like it, NOW.

3. If your friend prefers cleaning cat pee off the floor because he is too dumb to get a litter tray, leave him to it. But it's such a shame that this level of stupidity means that the cat doesn't get the urgent medical attention he so obviously needs.

4. And he suddenly decides on an insane whim that he doesn't like this other poor innocent cat and isn't going to look after it any more? What ?? Try explaining to that poor unhappy confused cat what it's done to deserve that?

I'm sorry to be so blunt, but really, someone had to say it. Stop being so charitable to your friend, and start telling him to man up and start looking after his cats properly.

[Joe_Danger]

There's no need to apologize, I 100% agree with every word you said
I'm very frustrated with this whole situation but there is absolutely nothing I can do
I can't explain to people in general that cats don't think and reason the same way we do yet that seems to be the biggest issue with getting cats fixed for so many people for some reason.

He is a friend of mine but not a very close friend who I'd get offended over or anything, he is just a guy I hang out with, he is a good friend but again not a close person to me so don't worry
Unfortunately whether he takes this cat to the vet or not is in their hands, I've never even been to their house and don't know his family, I just know what he tells me.
I hope they take the cat to the vet and get him fixed but who knows.

Edit: Oh and I've told him all that and more, you know the way us guys talk and can be straight up honest with each other. Problem is if I go too overboard and I can if I get worked up he simply won't be telling me what's going on any more and I won't be able to provide at least some advice which he sometimes takes.

I've been telling him for years that cats are neither toys nor objects for his own entertainment and that if he can't provide proper care he shouldn't be keeping cats and toying with them like that, once he wants them, the next day he gets bored. Says he loves cats but shows is selectively.
There ain't no gettin through to this guy more than I already have I'm afraid, I'm very blunt and honest with him too and he does take some advice but well, we'll see how things turn out.

[Joe_Danger]

My friend just called, he took the cat to my old vet and it appears the nerve on the leg is damaged, he gave him an anti swelling shot and if the swelling goes away by tomorrow he'll take some x-rays and see what's going on inside.
From what the vet could tell though the nerve is either damaged with a chance of healing or completely dead/torn or so my friend says, there doesn't appear to be external visible damage apparently.

My friend for now seems genuinely concerned and keeps asking me what to do and all that, so here's hoping for the best

[lilynmitz]

Pleased to hear he's taken this poor cat to a decent vet. Hopefully the v et will give him a reality check, and hopefully neuter the cat while he's there. It sounds like you're doing all you can to educate the guy, In Difficult circumstances. Well done. And keep it up.

[Joe_Danger]

Decent is the best I'd call that vet, he esentially killed Anastasia and that's why I switched vets.
He is able to deal with stuff like this and surgeries well, but something more delicate like Anastasia's CRF was beyond his abilities clearly.
The vet laughed at me when I begged him to do bloodwork since she was showing all symptoms of CRF, he said I was worrying too much, reading the internet too much and all that usual stuff, he said "she'll eat when she feels like it, it's a cat" even though she hadn't eaten in days and was losing weight rapidly, but to him she was just fine.
We insisted he does bloodwork and sure enough it turned out she had CRF, she lived for 2 more years with no SubQ fluids and she wasn't the type to drink water, no vets would administer them nor would they touch us how to.

I dunno guys, I deal with a ton of poo when it comes to pets here
Maybe it's just me, maybe it's because I can't drive and look for better vets but everyone I talk to seems to be in the same boat, maybe there are vets with the knowledge and skills I need here I don't know but I don't know of any.

I know one vet who is far better than these average ones but he is too far and I don't have a car and never will since I'm legally blind and can't drive....otherwise I would've been a trucker it's just a thing I always kinda wanted lol

Either way, Anastasia and that vet are still a very painful subject for me, sorry about the rant, I just never pass up the opportunity to tell that story because it hurts too much how she went away with no vet care no nothing, at least he was able to order special food for her so that was something.

[Joe_Danger]

But don't get me wrong, the vet is great when it comes to performing surgeries and treating other more common issues with cats and dogs.

[lilynmitz]

It does sound like you've had some very unhappy experiences with vets. Conditions such as CRF are so well recognised in the UK that we generally don't have a problem getting vets to take old-age conditions in our animals seriously, but at least you did get Anastasia on renal food, which is sometimes the best we can do for them. CRF isn't that easy to treat, other than by managing diet, so you did well to keep her going for another 2 years. But as regards finding better vets, I understand your difficulties, and sometimes we have to just make the best of the circumstances we find ourselves in, and it sounds very much like you're doing just that. Well done. Your cats are very lucky to have you caring for them.

[Joe_Danger]

My old vet seems to be up to his old antics again and refuses to do x-rays and all to see what's going on in the cat's leg, there's no need he says. My friend doesn't like that but my current vet doesn't have the equipment for some reason o_O
He gave my friend some pills so once that's done and over with my friend will go back for a check up and insist he takes x-rays and whatever else is needed, even my street smart friend couldn't convince this guy to do something like this lol

That's the way vets are here, they turn down any and all extra work, they are also very difficult to convince to get bloodwork done

[Joe_Danger]

My friend and his family took this situation VERY seriously, for now
They even all went to different vets, other vets tell them the cat needs to have x-rays done but none have the equipment to do that and my old vet refuses to
Even my friend's mom who supposedly didn't like cats now went with him and his brother to the vet and actually cares about the cat, I'm very touched by this.

I hope they follow through and don't abandon the cat

[Lilith]

Fingers crossed eh?

Good luck to that cat - hope they do learn to care for him and love him now.

[lilynmitz]

Pleased to hear the whole family are taking this seriously. I hope they can find someone who can help soon. The level of equipment that vets have in house varies in the UK too, although most do have X-rays. I find it hard to understand how a vet could manage without one to be honest. Broken bones and internal injuries/growths etc are pretty fundamental in vet treatment.