Coco and Chanel dilemma

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booktigger
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Re: Coco and Chanel dilemma

Post by booktigger »

That reminds me of when I picked up Lucy, when I'd first viewed her I got bit, it was the assistant manager when I went to collect (I was torn between two, the irony is I chose Lucy as she was better with other cats! The other had to be in a room by herself as she attacked any other cat she was in a room with!), who was really stunned I'd chosen her, and asked if I wanted to do a trial period first. I found out after she'd had 7 reiki sessions and ended each one by biting the volunteer! In the rescue she sat on anyone who sat down, even if she did bite most of them when they tried to leave, she barely sat on my knee when we got home, now she mainly sits on me in bed, so I have to spend more time there
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Re: Coco and Chanel dilemma

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I love this, Ruth. I had no idea what was in store with Molly, the rescue said she was a home to home so they hadn't met her at all but they matched us up on the basis of what I needed and could offer and what Molly's people said about her. They just acted as a dating agency in our case. The lady and I spoke on the phone and she seemed happy that I would take good care of her kitty, all she really told me was that Molly would hide until she was comfortable with any visitor's voice and that she had rescued her at 9 months old from a noisy chaotic home. So I never met her until she arrived to live with me, and then all I saw for the first week was a flash of grey as she shot from the carrier under the bed and then a shadow if I woke in the night while she was exploring.

She has damaged me, once, and it could have been very serious because it's a small but deep tear-scratch so close to my eyelashes it's actually on the lower eyelid, if that makes sense. My fault entirely, I got complacent - she has two towers and one is ok to touch her on and the other isn't. I got overconfident trying to stroke her on the no-touch tower, and she was on the face-height level. Tell me again how I was insane enough to put my face into her belly after that? But hands have obviously caused her problems before and a face in her belly never has.

Purdy my 23 year old from a previous relationship, she is the bitey one. Still purring as she sinks her teeth in. She got better with some gentle guidance but the worst with her is how you get to know before she does that she's going to bite so you stop stroking and then you get the most outraged look because you dare to stop stroking.
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Re: Coco and Chanel dilemma

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Had such brave girls this morning, Chanel was curled up on the stairs, she let me put my foot on the same step as her before flying up the stairs. I didn't know where Coco was, flung my work bag on the sofa and started putting things in it, before noticing she was on the back of the sofa!! she watched me, then I went in the kitchen to get food bowls, she was still on the back of the sofa when I came back, which is a first, so I sat on the sofa and messed on my phone till she went upstairs. We did sit and have a conversation last night, she does like that. They have had to share a present here is ?Lucy testing it
Girls happy.jpg
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Mayday21
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Re: Coco and Chanel dilemma

Post by Mayday21 »

HNY Booktigger maybe this is the precursor for that 21 is the year Coco & Chanel realise all is ok. Wishing you a kind, a gentle & a tad more normality. Fusses to the fur babes. Vivian & the Famous Five from Oz.
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Ruth B
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Re: Coco and Chanel dilemma

Post by Ruth B »

I'm sure sometimes when you don't notice a cat, they are happier because you aren't paying them attention (other cats really hate being ignored and let you know it). Hopefully it is a good sign and things will keep moving forward, small steps are still steps in the right direction.
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Re: Coco and Chanel dilemma

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I'm finally starting to think that adopting the girls was the right thing to do, this is in part due to a recent post by Ruth in response to someone asking if their cats were happy (posted as a reminder)

A happy cat will walk around the house confidently, tail held high. They will come to you demanding fuss and attention (and treats). They will sleep out in the open or with you if allowed, some will sleep in a sprawled position rather than neatly curled up. they will be interested in what you are doing, and just wanting to be with you. They will spend time looking out of windows watching the world.

An unhappy cat will want to hide, they will find a dark corner and withdraw to it. They will refuse social interaction, possibly not even taking a treat when offered. They will sit in a tense hunched position, barely moving. They will eat and drink less, lose weight, and their coat will lose condition, they may start to over groom and end up with bald patches. When they do move out of their hidey hole they will slink around belly down, tail down, keeping to the walls.

While the girls don't do all the things on the happy list, they do enough for me to realise that they are content with what they get. Ironically Coco can be demanding without making a noise - last night I came in to give them their supper and got distracted on the internet (it was their night out, so the door was open), they both left the room, she came back after a few mins and looked a bit put out to see no food, then after 5 mins came back in and just sat staring at me!! Then ate some of her supper off my hand. Not used to cats who can demand things without making a noise, as they have Siamese in them, I did say I was grateful they don't make a noise! I had both of them watching me brush my teeth, Coco actually laid down with her paws under her watching me! This morning I got up at 5am to make a cup of tea, Chanel was curled up on the stairs, and actually let me walk past her, which is a first, Coco was on the sofa and she also let me walk past her (not a first, she's done it a few times this year). I do think a lot of it is down to lockdown and having more time to spend with them. Me and my neighbour were talking the other day, she thinks they were sent here to help me with giving up volunteering, which I agree with, as I've been able to keep the routine I had when I was fostering, just with added time at a weekend and being forced to go to bed earlier and stay in my room longer on the weekend day they are out, which has been especially helpful during lockdown.
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Re: Coco and Chanel dilemma

Post by Mollycat »

These special cats are definitely sent to us for a purpose, I've been certain of it for some years. It's too easy to get tied up in the detail of looking for signs and miss the signs they are giving on their terms. I once read someone who had a rescued cat for years who lived in one room, who just once in all the years gave her one single slow-blink.

Remember, a cat that has been actively abused is often pretty good at knowing the bad guy is a one off, but it seems like ones that have been exposed to general noise and chaos take much longer to trust and relax again. You're doing so well with them.
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Re: Coco and Chanel dilemma

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I'm glad that what i wrote there has help you see that they are happy with their lot in life. I have been pretty certain they are from the photos you post, but I can never be sure if you just post the ones where they do look happy, and only you get to see the other side.

I think it can be very easy to anthropomorphise animals and put human requirements on to them. We think of the kitten that is playful and turns into the cat that is always wanting to be with us and have a cuddle as what a cat should be like, and wonder if anything else is a happy cat, when really we know that like people some cats will be happy cuddle cats, but others can be happy just to share a home with you. I think i was lucky to learn early on how different cats can be. Rusty, the first cat my family had (we got him when I was about 6 years old), was not a cuddle cat, as my Mum described him, he was a Felix cat, the cat who walked alone (Felix was a cartoon cat then, not the cat food brand it is now), he would have fuss but only on his terms, he would let you know when he had had enough, and if you didn't take the hint he would strike out, my parents always blamed me or my Sister if we got scratched, we should have listened to what he was saying. The Sam adopted us about 3 years later, and he was the epitome of cuddle cat, he would accept a 9 year old girl mauling him about with out any complaint, any lap was an open opportunity as far as he was concerned. If they had arrived the other way around I might have been disappointed with Rusty, but instead it taught me not to judge a cat's happiness by what I might want from them.

Freyja can be incredibly demanding, when she wants to be and feel it is safe to be. She will come in while we are sat on the computers, particularly if Tiggy is in with us, give a chelping meow to let us know she is there and wants attention and if we don't give her some fuss she will rear up and put her paws on our thighs, often with the claws out, and of course because of how long it has taken to build her trust, we can't tell her off for doing it. One of my regrets with the Covid situation is that she had got used to a couple of friends that came over regularly, and had even started to brave coming down when other visitors were here, now she has had almost a year of just us in the house, I have a feeling that when people do start coming again she might be going back into hiding.
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Re: Coco and Chanel dilemma

Post by melodyth »

They are cute
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Kay
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Re: Coco and Chanel dilemma

Post by Kay »

I've had to revise a lot of my previous beliefs about what makes cats happy since I had Penny

I was told she had spent her first 11 years with an elderly couple, and had regular access to outdoors, but she has shown virtually no interest in going out into my enclosed garden since she came to me 21 months ago - in fact she spends most of her time on top of the wardrobe, and joins me only when I go to bed. But she is very affectionate, eats well and seems perfectly content.

Whatever the truth about her first 11 years, it is clear to me that her overriding need is to feel safe, and I consider it a real stroke of luck that she came to me, as I live a very quiet life on my one without other cats
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Mollycat
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Re: Coco and Chanel dilemma

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I do think feeling safe is so much higher up a cat's priorities than any other animal we deal with. They are unique among all the animals we share our lives with in that they are by nature solitary. Every other domestic animal is a pack, herd or social animal of some kind. It's not in their nature to trust anyone with their safety or their group's safety. Social bonding is a nice luxury they can indulge in after safety has been taken care of, for the rest of us social bonding is an important part of what keeps us safe.
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Re: Coco and Chanel dilemma

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I feel like that about Lucy Kay, I remember a friend came round shortly after I got her, and we were upstairs having a heated debate, Lucy walked round downstairs crying (she came from a domestic abuse household), so dread to think what she'd have been like even with a couple, never mind a family. Plus she is so spooky outside about noise, so she is lucky we live on a small, dead end street, as just a neighbour leaving their house, or a car driving along the street at the top is enough to make her fly in. And that's not even considering her other quirks.
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Re: Coco and Chanel dilemma

Post by booktigger »

Think they may be happy they are here rather than outside today!
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Re: Coco and Chanel dilemma

Post by fjm »

They look wonderfully relaxed, and "Baby, it's cold outside!"
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Re: Coco and Chanel dilemma

Post by Ruth B »

We may be floofy, but its still cold outside.

I admit I am thinking our weather isn't too bad at the moment, i was talking to someone on line today who lives in the States and he had to go and free up the garage door as it had frozen stuck. That was when he explained that to do so he had to get properly kitted up to go outside, they had a weather warning letting them know that 10 minutes outside could give them frostbite in exposed skin. They were having temperatures of -37 Fahrenheit, a quick Google told me that was about -36 Centigrade, I am no longer complaining about our -4 degrees (much).
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Re: Coco and Chanel dilemma

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I ordered a new throw this week, neighbour suggested using it as a cover to see if it entices the girls to sleep on the chair. I'm not sure, not seen any evidence yet of them sitting on it, but it does look really nice on the chair, luckily I found 4 in a cupboard so can have one of those for over my legs if I get chilly! I also got very close to Chanel when cleaning this morning.
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Re: Coco and Chanel dilemma

Post by Mollycat »

Just a thought, have you tried putting your own scent on their bedding and throws, rather than giving them clean? They might be more attached to you than you realise and feel more comfortable with your scent on their beds.

When Molly went to hospital I was allowed to send some toys and blankets as long as I understood I may not be able to have them back. She doesn't do blankets and I didn't want to risk her losing her favourite toys, so I made some catnip toys (that she still loves 2 years later) and I slept on a clean blanket to send with her.
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Re: Coco and Chanel dilemma

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Well, now they are my cats rather than charity cats, I don't clean as often as I had to, there is normally a blanket on that chair, I can't remember the last time I changed it and apart from the odd time when I've been getting Chanel to take treats off my knee, they don't bother about the chair, they prefer the windowsill beds. Coco has taken to sitting on the landing, and will let me sit on one of the top stairs and chat to her, must post that pic too actually.
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Re: Coco and Chanel dilemma

Post by Kay »

Mollycat has reminded me I sent my Trigger off for his HT treatment with a t-shirt I had been wearing for a couple of days
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Re: Coco and Chanel dilemma

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Pip too went in for radio-iodine treatment with blankets that I had slept with for a few days, plus enough home-cooked food for a fortnight! I'm not sure that it made a huge difference to him, but it made me feel better. Lovely to see C&C getting more and more relaxed.
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Re: Coco and Chanel dilemma

Post by Mollycat »

Booktigger, I saw an ad from my local rescue who put me in touch with Molly all those years ago, and thought of you. Not to have them of course, but they are advertised as a "project" and I only wish I could. Two calico girls, either sisters or mother and daughter, the rescue thinks the mother may be beyond help but the daughter is showing some very faint signs of curiosity about being tamed.

I have to keep away from rescue sites and pages because I know I can't help them. If only my Boo were still here and could help more cats, he would have been just the perfect fosterer's companion.
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jennij001
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Re: Coco and Chanel dilemma

Post by jennij001 »

what breed are they?
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Re: Coco and Chanel dilemma

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Officially moggies, but they clearly have some kind of Siamese in them, Coco could pass as a Burmese (she's too chunky for a Siamese) and Chanel could pass as a Ragdoll, but they don't have the proper blue eyes and fortunately not the vocalisation.
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Re: Coco and Chanel dilemma

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jennij001 wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 9:26 pm what breed are they?
The gene precedes the breed. Cats with "Siamese" colouring can crop up randomly in any old moggie. It's a recessive gene which means it can hide for many generations until a cat inherits it and a matching one from the other parent, and the so-called Siamese colour appears.

The gene, and cat colouring generally, is a fascinating subject. For instance cats are the only animal to have a truly orange gene. Foxes, deer, dogs etc who look reddish in fact aren't, but an orange cat really is an orange cat. There are 3 different non-albino whites, so a cat can be white with a white masking gene on top and white markings.

The Siamese or more accurately colourpoint gene is a form of albino that is, you guessed it, temperature sensitive. The eyes are blue instead of the red you get in classic albino (classic albino is rare in cats) and the fur colour changes according to the temperature of that part of the body. So the cooler the area, the darker the fur, on the extremities and face.

But a cat with colour points does not need to be part Siamese/Birman/Ragdoll or any other colourpoint breed at all.
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booktigger
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Re: Coco and Chanel dilemma

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That's a good point Mollycat, I have always assumed these have some kind of Siamese in them because of them both being colour points, I know you can have it as a recessive gene (think I've posted before about the pregnant tortie we had that had two gingers and two colourpoints), but wasn't sure if Coco's was a recessive that she would then produce another colourpoint (unless she'd mated with one of course, but as she was found hanging round a factory, I'd say those chances were slim) - sadly I don't know what the other kittens were like, or how many, other than there was at least one male as well as Chanel
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Re: Coco and Chanel dilemma

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I was 16 years old when my vet told me about why torties were girls and that cat genetics was one of the most fascinating topics in veterinary studies. I've been riveted ever since, not in the breeding sense of what do I cross to get a lilac strawberry tabby point with pink whiskers, just the utter wow of nature.

They could be, or Chanel could be, I guess it's hard to see a Siamese character in such timid cats. How are they both doing taming you?
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Re: Coco and Chanel dilemma

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Yes, I find cat genetics interesting as well - not to the point of wanting to breed, but while fostering, interesting to see what the parents could be with some litters. My neighbour actually did a genetics test on one of her semi ferals, as she was convinced she had some kind of bengal in her, it turned out she didn't, but a slight amount of oriental. The other day Chanel came and laid on the bathroom floor while I was brushing my teeth, I threw a treat, which she ignored, so I sat down reading my kindle ignoring her in the hope she would come and get it, which she didn't. That has been one good thing about lockdown, a slower pace of life to spend time doing random things like that.
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Re: Coco and Chanel dilemma

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I find the study of genetics in general interesting and came very close to studying them at university, I just didn't make the grades. In the end however, unless you have the paperwork to say a cat is a specific breed and that its parents, and grand parents were as well they are all just moggies.
I will admit that when Tiggy finally leaves us, I will be very tempted to try and get another Ragdoll, Mainecoon or a Norwegian Forest, partly because I am getting to the age where I feel if I don't get a kitten next time I probably never will as I feel I will be pushing my luck to think I will be alive myself for its whole life, not being gloomy, just realistic, my family don't tend to get much past mid 70s, that is our genetics. If i do though it will be from a breeder and properly registered, it may cost more but it is the only way I feel to ensure i get the cat I am paying for, I also want to do everything I can to avoid the backyard breeders that will still be out their no matter what laws are brought in.
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Re: Coco and Chanel dilemma

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There are a few things including genetics I would have loved to go into, but honestly I'm just too lazy to ever do the work for a good career. I'm working part time now and that's my penultimate career move, the final promotion is housewife.

I have to admit human-bred cats are absolutely not my thing. Boo my only posh ped appalled me, hair too long to be able to groom himself, the squashed nose, delicate gut and impaired senses and reactions, not to mention the health vulnerabilities. I'm told a high proportion of kittens die and I can't help wondering if that's due to mismatched breeding, there has to be a strong evolutionary advantage to cats' natural breeding behaviour. And then there's the arguments! Traditional lines, inbreeding - how is it possible not to be inbred when the breed began with one cat in the 1960s? The lady I bought him from said a lot of things, the lady who bred him told me she had a lot of different things to tell me. I got all three of our kittens from family friends' moggy mums and recall newsagents window ads free to good homes.

All that said I have a big soft spot for Turkish Vans and the old fashioned stockier Siamese, and OH has his heart set on a Maine Coon kitten. Firstly I prefer the less American looking square jaw of the Wegie, secondly I would be very reluctant to bring a kitten into an indoor only home, thirdly I don't want any more posh peds, and finally we both agree in our more rational moments that after everything financial and emotional these have already put us through, what we need after them is a break from pets. I always said he can have another puppy when he retires and is there to house train him, but I'm not sure he will ever allow another dog into his heart after this one. We all have that one animal that is just a part of our soul.
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Re: Coco and Chanel dilemma

Post by Ruth B »

Blue was supposedly a Ragdoll, but the promised paperwork was never brought to the rescue so he was only ever an alleged Ragdoll. His fur was long, but most of the time he could look after it himself, we just groomed him for a few minutes each day to keep him used to being groomed in case it was ever needed and because he enjoyed it. His face wasn't particularly shortened and he never had any respiratory problems that Persians are prone to. I guess health wise he really wasn't any worse than the moggies I have had, which is why i'm willing to consider certain breeds.

Like you i prefer the older style of Siamese, and I feel so sorry for ones like Persians that do have so many problems due to what humans have decided they want in a cat. I feel the same way about a lot of dog breeds, I've seen pictures of how they used to look compared to how the breed is now and think we are making a big mistake, I'm also not sure about some of the newer cat breeds, particularly those that are hybrids with various wild cats, they are far too close to their wild relatives for my liking and expecting them to just adapt to an indoor life if wrong. When the time comes I may get lucky and a fluffy rescue cat will be available, but I'm not pinning my hopes on it, so I've accepted that if i want to refloof my house I will have to pay for the privileged and I've accepted that I will have to pay to make sure that I get one from a good breeder.
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