Mia - a new chapter begins

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Re: Mia - a new chapter begins

Post by ThorpeDave » Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:33 pm

booktigger wrote:Aww! As he is 4 months old and larger than your average cat, be careful letting him out, his hormones may kick in sooner and he may try escaping. Good luck with the cat flap
Containing Hendrix is difficult at the best of times

Tonight Mia seem not to want to play so went out - Hendrix was hot on her heels and played merry hell we we brought him back.

Yes I am concerned about his hormones kicking in early so I called the vet this morning but they really do not want to castrate him until he is six months old - we will see

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Re: Mia - a new chapter begins

Post by booktigger » Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:39 pm

There is no real reason to wait till 6 months, I've been doing early neutering for years with no issues. I'd try a different vet, especially with his outdoor interest

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Re: Mia - a new chapter begins

Post by ThorpeDave » Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:44 pm

booktigger wrote:There is no real reason to wait till 6 months, I've been doing early neutering for years with no issues. I'd try a different vet, especially with his outdoor interest
Seeing one next week ;)

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Re: Mia - a new chapter begins

Post by booktigger » Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:57 pm

Thats good. Worth asking the vet rather than the receptionist, years ago a vet commented on me waiting to neuter a cat, turns out she was happy to do at 4 months but the receptionist didn't say

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Re: Mia - a new chapter begins

Post by Alice » Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:37 pm

In today's local paper the local branch of RSPCA features 3 kittens, all siblings, male and female, looking for new homes. They're 12 weeks old and all have been neutered already.

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Re: Mia - a new chapter begins

Post by Ruth B » Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:41 pm

There certainly seems to be a lot of variation in the vet community as to neutering.

I can understand waiting if the cat is underweight or not developed enough, but healthy cats can be safely done from 8 weeks and are in other countries, over here you might find ones that are willing to neuter at 12 weeks where as others insist on waiting until the 6 months is up. It is an area i feel we are a bit behind in.

i do remember one kitten our family had who at 4 months started marking territory and showing similar adult behaviour, he was supposed to wait another 2 months, but a quick trip to the vets and a discussion of his behaviour and the vet examined him and declared him 'a big lad' and arranged for surgery a few days later.

Hopefully you can find someone who is happy to neuter Hendrix sooner rather than later.

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Re: Mia - a new chapter begins

Post by booktigger » Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:44 pm

It certainly is Ruth, when I was with CP we had contacted all the local vets regarding neutering, we had them neutering at 3, 4, 5 and 6 months! I then changed vets and all were done at 9 weeks old.

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Re: Mia - a new chapter begins

Post by ThorpeDave » Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:58 pm

booktigger wrote:Thats good. Worth asking the vet rather than the receptionist, years ago a vet commented on me waiting to neuter a cat, turns out she was happy to do at 4 months but the receptionist didn't say
When I spoke to our vet a few weeks ago she stated that it was their advice to wait until 6 months - especially females as the op is more complicated.

She told me that it was the rescue centers that had pressured vets to reduce the age of neutering due to the pressure on their resources.

coincidentally, I had a Facebook conversation with our vets on Sunday who said that I should ring today and discuss the situation, which I did.

the person I talked to today was however doing their best to persuade me not to have him done saying it was not recommended.

My own view is that we should wait until he is 6 months old BUT I have to take other things into consideration - namely Mia.

As stated, Hendrix only seems to want to go out if Mia is out and she wants to go out because Hendrix, sometimes, goes OTT with her. Yesterday was wonderful, tonight has been a different story! Swings and roundabouts! We could do with a cold snap to persuade them both it is nicer in the house!!!!

This is certainly becoming a balancing act with the scales swinging one way then the other - certainly keeps us on our toes :D

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Re: Mia - a new chapter begins

Post by ThorpeDave » Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:05 pm

Ruth B wrote:
Hopefully you can find someone who is happy to neuter Hendrix sooner rather than later.
If I can go face to face with our vet I feel sure that she will look at the bigger picture and agree to bring the date forward. I would be happy for him to be done at 5 months IF he is deemed otherwise medically fit and healthy. What I want to avoid doing is hinting him with everything in one go - like we did with Stealth with such catastrophic consequences.

We also need to go through another flea and worming treatment which may mean using a different product as he had a slight reaction to Advocate.

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Re: Mia - a new chapter begins

Post by ThorpeDave » Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:07 pm

Alice wrote:In today's local paper the local branch of RSPCA features 3 kittens, all siblings, male and female, looking for new homes. They're 12 weeks old and all have been neutered already.
That certainly is the norm with all our local rescue organisations

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Re: Mia - a new chapter begins

Post by ThorpeDave » Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:57 pm

Alice wrote:In today's local paper the local branch of RSPCA features 3 kittens, all siblings, male and female, looking for new homes. They're 12 weeks old and all have been neutered already.
I have become quite friendly with someone who volunteers for one the the leading cat rescue / re-homing organisations.

She has confirmed that it is their policy to neuter at 3 months HOWEVER, the earliest HER cats were neutered was at 5 months. Her sister has, today, had her cat neutered at 5 months.

The advice she gave me was wait until "the fur balls" were big enough !

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Re: Mia - a new chapter begins

Post by Ruth B » Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:51 am

When I was a child it was normal to home kittens at 6 weeks, now we understand their development more and 12 weeks is the norm. Cats back then were also neutered or spayed at 6 months (or after their first litter for females), now we are understanding that we can neuter early and there is absolutely no need for a female cat to have kittens first. So more and more charities are working along the lines of 'we can neuter at 12 weeks with the right vet and healthy kittens, and we rehome at 13 weeks, so there is no need to rely on people to do the right thing afterwards we can get it done before and know that all the kittens are neutered prior to leaving, and won't be responsible for the next lot of kittens we have in'.

Of cause they have to be healthy and not underweight, you wouldn't want to put a sickly kitten under anesthetic for routine surgery, the only other reason i know is if the balls haven't dropped, which occasionally happens and in the end the vet has to go looking for them.

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Re: Mia - a new chapter begins

Post by ThorpeDave » Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:09 am

Ruth B wrote: Of cause they have to be healthy and not underweight, you wouldn't want to put a sickly kitten under anesthetic for routine surgery, the only other reason i know is if the balls haven't dropped, which occasionally happens and in the end the vet has to go looking for them.
It does appear that Hendrix is healthy enough and certain, weight wise, there is not problem. We will have him to the vets next week but in the meantime we are going to have a struggle with him.

Once again this morning has shot outside. I managed to get hold of him and, after a struggle, got his harness on as he created when I brought him in. We were fine for a couple of minutes then one of our neighbors was taking her bin out and her dog got out. Hendrix panicked and bolted to the house and shot through the cat door while still on the leash!

At least he knows how to use the cat door to come in now and he knows where he will be safe!

Which brings me onto the next problem. Cat proofing our garden. Can anyone point in the right direction or provide links?

When it was Mia and Stealth we had no concerns - as such - as they both were feral or semi feral and were very street wise. When we found out that Mia was being attacked we put some mesh up at the entry gate which has stopped one cat but another has found an alternative route. 3 other cats come in from a different direction..

One of our boundaries is a 6ft fence which Mia scales with ease and the other is a 5ft wall which is again a doddle. There are a couple of bits of garden furniture which they can also use as a staging post.

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Re: Mia - a new chapter begins

Post by MarySkater » Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:30 am

ThorpeDave wrote:Which brings me onto the next problem. Cat proofing our garden. Can anyone point in the right direction or provide links?
Cats climb fences, so you need a "roof" or overhang to stop them. I didn't try to cat-proof my whole garden. I gave them a space 10 feet by 30 feet. The existing 6-foot fence and the house wall were two sides, I got a fencing company in to build the other two sides with wire net, and flexible netting stretched across the top.
Cat safe garden.jpg
Cat safe garden.jpg (154.18 KiB) Viewed 263 times
This was okay until I needed to get a ladder to the house wall for gutter cleaning. I took out part of the overhead net, and instead put in an overhang on each side. I have tried two kinds of brackets to hold the overhang:

https://catfencing.org.uk/
Normal bracket £17.50. Their bracket comes in two parts, one fixed to the fence and the other bolted to it. In practise, I found it difficult to make the join tight enough for the upper part to stay in position, and had to find extra support for it.

Later, when I wanted more support for the overhead net, I shopped here:
https://protectapet.com/
Standard bracket £24.99. This bracket is much easier to use, and I'm happier with it. Worth the extra cost.

There are other options, including DIY. But your net has to be securely attached to the top of the fence, because cats will go up the fence and try to head-butt their way through the edge of the net.

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Re: Mia - a new chapter begins

Post by ThorpeDave » Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:25 pm

MarySkater wrote:
Later, when I wanted more support for the overhead net, I shopped here:
https://protectapet.com/
Standard bracket £24.99. This bracket is much easier to use, and I'm happier with it. Worth the extra cost.

There are other options, including DIY. But your net has to be securely attached to the top of the fence, because cats will go up the fence and try to head-butt their way through the edge of the net.
Many thanks - that will be quite expensive! but looks to be a total solution my garden is about 30ft x 10ft so similar to yours

the interesting thing is that they are based 15 miles away so may even consider a professional installation as I am registered as blind.

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Dave

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Re: Mia - a new chapter begins

Post by MarySkater » Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:28 pm

If your budget will run to a professional installation, I'm sure that's the way to go. Since distance is a minor item, and your garden isn't too big, then it's well worth at least talking to them and getting a quote.

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Re: Mia - a new chapter begins

Post by booktigger » Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:37 pm

I’m not sure how much rescues have played a part in early neutering over here, it had been done in the US for 20 years when I heard about it 13 years ago, think my vet has been doing it for around 20 years, so if it was detrimental to their health, they wouldn’t still be doing it after decades. When I first started doing it, one of the volunteers objected as she didn’t like the thought of babies having operations, but in my view it is better than babies having babies. There is a lot of peace of mind by doing it, and it saves the owners having to be the baddies by starving them and taking them for the op. In the 100ish kittens we did, only 1 couldn’t be done because of the testicles not descending. I’ve had cats neutered from 9 weeks up to 10 years old, and there is a difference in recovery, the younger they are, the quicker, they barely notice! My vets use glue so no collar and no stitches to be removed, so they barely bother with the wound and it saves the stress of a collar and taking them back for stitch removal. I live on the Lancashire/Yorkshire border, the Lancashire vets do it between 3 and 6 months, the Yorkshire vets do it at 9 weeks, and there is a massive difference in number of kittens in rescue in the two areas, having volunteered for charities on both sides of the border. I’m very surprised someone working at a vets would persuade you against neutering, due to the health implications of not doing.

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Re: Mia - a new chapter begins

Post by ThorpeDave » Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:58 pm

booktigger wrote: having volunteered for charities on both sides of the border. I’m very surprised someone working at a vets would persuade you against neutering, due to the health implications of not doing.
It is not a case of IF but WHEN

Hendrix will be neutered and my vet recommends 6 months. I didn't have a problem with that but he has grown so fast and is so manic I have to consider my options to help calm him down a bit and reduce the risk of maturing, wandering and fighting.

Having lost a cat who did not recover from neutering a few months ago I am scared stiff - although it was not the neutering in isolation that caused his death.

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Re: Mia - a new chapter begins

Post by booktigger » Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:24 pm

Ah right, I misread your post, sorry. I know how you feel, one of my first foster cats didn't come back from a dental and while I know it was his advanced liver disease and not the dental, it's the one operation that really bothers me, even over a decade later.

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Re: Mia - a new chapter begins

Post by ThorpeDave » Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:01 pm

booktigger wrote:Ah right, I misread your post, sorry. I know how you feel, one of my first foster cats didn't come back from a dental and while I know it was his advanced liver disease and not the dental, it's the one operation that really bothers me, even over a decade later.
It is still very raw with us and why I am insisting one treatment at a time.

when Stealth was castrated he had - against my instructions - an FeLV jab and was given a Stronghold spot On.

Reading the small print of the Stronghold, it says do NOT give if the cat has a low body temperature - which is exactly what happens under anesthetic.

Every time he had a flea treatment he deteriorated.

I have since learned that most rescue organisations do EVERYTHING in one hit and there are casualties. My Vet's "Gold Standard" is NOT do do everything in one hit and any treatment only takes place after a thorough examination.

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Re: Mia - a new chapter begins

Post by ThorpeDave » Thu Oct 25, 2018 6:27 pm

Hendrix and Mia continue to be friendly - one minute - with conflict the next!

There still seems to be no aggression on either side. Hendrix simply wants to play and Mia obliges unless she gets fed up with the constant attention and then she will put Hendrix in his place :D There is not a scratch on either of them.

We had Hendrix at the vets today and he got a clean bill of health.

There remains a degree of concern regarding flea and worming treatment as he had a reaction to to Advocate and I am scared stiff of others that seem to have done so much harm to Stealth.

Hendridx certainly has no fleas or mite and we do not think Mia does either - although she is scratching her ear quite a bit and really enjoys having it massaged.

Does anyone out there use one of the "natural" flea and worm treatments ???

The vet is happy for Hendrix to be neutered at any time as his weight is fine and is developing in the right places. We are stil going to wait as long as we can however but if he gets too much then he will be dealt with very quickly.

Hendrix has continue to want to go outside and we let him go with strict supervision.

Last tuesday he was out wearing his harness and on a leash. It was bin day and a neighbour opend her gate to get her bin out and her Scotty dog decided to go for a wonder.

It appears that Hendrix doesn't like dogs and made a run for it - thankfully towards the house - and he went straight through the cat door which was in programming mode.

It is odd that Mia will leave the house through the cat door and Hendrix won't while he comes in without any problem and Mia is reluctant to do so!

The new cat door arrived today with an extension on the front and an 8 second locking delay. She has used it once when a neighbors cat paid a visit so it is now fully programmed and we wait for her to try it willingly rather than out of necessity.

We are very content in that they seem to be happy together and it seems that Mia recognises that he is a child and will calm down in the future.

Regards

Dave

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Re: Mia - a new chapter begins

Post by Lilith » Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:59 am

Sounds like she's got him licked ... :D

I'd be scared of those treatments too ... I'm so glad my two are housecats in this weather and don't go beyond the garden in warmer months. It's disturbing to hear of similar reports about reactions, even mild ones, to this stuff :(

Good luck with the catflap ... I've never had the courage to train a cat to one of these.

My Emily had a bit of 'mucky ear' trouble towards the end of her life and although I was prepared to get her to the vet if needed, I found that some Johnsons' eardrops worked fine. She too loved having her ear massaged and if I wrapped a paper hanky round my index finger (my nails are short and anything smaller than a finger is dangerous) and wiped the ear out, she'd push her head hard against me to get relief from the itch, and the scratching would stop as soon as the irritating wax had been cleaned out ... bit like ourselves with an ear-itch.

Fusses to them both :)

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Re: Mia - a new chapter begins

Post by booktigger » Fri Oct 26, 2018 11:44 am

Buster had a reaction to spot ons after years, I discussed the Program injection with my vet, but we went down the tablet route - I've just ordered some capstar tablets for the fosters as I can't touch them. The only downside with the injection is it doesn't kill fleas, just stops them reproducing.

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Re: Mia - a new chapter begins

Post by ThorpeDave » Fri Oct 26, 2018 1:24 pm

booktigger wrote:Buster had a reaction to spot ons after years, I discussed the Program injection with my vet, but we went down the tablet route - I've just ordered some capstar tablets for the fosters as I can't touch them. The only downside with the injection is it doesn't kill fleas, just stops them reproducing.
IF it becomes necessary to treat them both I will do but with extreme caution and ONLY via the vet.

As neither of them have fleas - which in Mia's case is quite remarkable - I am certainly not going to feed them insecticides just in case!

Worming is a different story and both will have Panacur 4 times per year which will help a lot.

We thought that Mia may have ear mites but, when we fuss her 2 or 3 times a day, my wife ensures that she has a good ear massage which Mia really likes at the moment. She is scratching and shaking her head a lot less now, so, perhaps, it was just a build up of gunge which the massage is helping to free up ???

Hendrix does not have ear mites and will be checked again thoroughly when he is "sorted"

The vet is going to investigate and come up with with a solution for them both - hopefully as she agrees that flea/worming spot ons may be too much and the fact that they can cause problems.

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Dave

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Re: Mia - a new chapter begins

Post by ThorpeDave » Fri Oct 26, 2018 1:31 pm

Lilith wrote:Sounds like she's got him licked ... :D

I'd be scared of those treatments too ... I'm so glad my two are housecats in this weather and don't go beyond the garden in warmer months. It's disturbing to hear of similar reports about reactions, even mild ones, to this stuff :(

Good luck with the catflap ... I've never had the courage to train a cat to one of these.

:)
Knowing that Mia strayed as a result of being bullied WAS a worry for us when Hendrix started to pounce on her. However, we don't think that he is trying to push her out or being aggressive, simply playing. It can get too much for Mia and she does try and find somewhere out of the way but she willingly comes into the house and will put him in his place when she has had enough.

Hopefully, he will quiet down in the near future.

Mia is rolling and more and more but Hendrix cannot resist the temptation to pounce on her. Hendrix has also started rolling too but Mia just turns her back on him! :)

Typically, Mia has decided that she is staying in so only used the catflap once to escape a male intruder. Hendrix uses it with ease even though it is much bigger than the previous one

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Dave

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Re: Mia - a new chapter begins

Post by ThorpeDave » Sun Nov 04, 2018 12:15 pm

Now 19 weeks old Hendrix now weighs over 3kg. We are considering taking the cat door out and replacing it with a barn door :D Current projection is that he will be over 7kg when he turns one year old and, apparently, his parents are also huge cats.

We are, however, getting quite worried about Mia in particular.

Over the past few days, Mia has become somewhat withdrawn and is doing everything possible to keep away from Hendrix. They are still touching noses but Hendrix still wants to pounce on her and is jumping on her back. We think his hormones are kicking in ?????

We took him to the vets for a general checkup and to discuss neutering. The vet was happy to get him done saying he was ready. However the first appointment I was given was November 20th - the anniversary of when Stealth was done with such terrible consequences. He will be done now on November 22nd well over 2 weeks away.

2 weeks is a long time for Mia to be hiding which she now tends to do although Hendrix frequently tries to disturb her resulting in physical exchanges which are less than friendly.

We are very mindful that Mia fled her previous home due to an in tact male giving her a hard time and we are concerned that she may feel that Hendrix will do the same.

Mia is still having her fusses - although often truncated - but is not eating very well and even treat time is becoming difficult.

We are really hoping that this sudden problem is due to Hendrix's hormones and neutering him will obviously solve that - but it will obviously take time.

It is going to be a difficult couple of weeks :(

The new customised cat door has not been a success as Mia refuses to go in or out of it. The tunnel is 2 inches longer, so it unlocks sooner, and this seems to be freaking her out.

Poor Mia is going through the mill at the moment :(

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Dave

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Re: Mia - a new chapter begins

Post by Lilith » Sun Nov 04, 2018 4:47 pm

I'm so sorry you've had this setback.

I would let Mia hide. In her favourite room (preferably your bedroom so she can be with you all night) with her favourite foods and a tray and so on. I'd special her.

Hendrix is being a LOUT and a THUG - but he'll get his comeuppance - once he's had his op and is feeling fragile, that is the time Mia can start coming back into her own again. Poor lass, she's had a lot to cope with but hopefully with your support she'll have been building up some resistance ...

All the very best and fusses to the both of them, even that little LOUT Lol! :)

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Re: Mia - a new chapter begins

Post by booktigger » Sun Nov 04, 2018 5:13 pm

Poor Mia - I've never known a two week wait for neutering, especially not for a male. Fingers crossed you can find things to help her - have you tried Beapher calming treats? I get them online, but they can be bought in certain shops, I found them in the Range the other week - they are a valerian/hops mix, so all herbal. Hope you haven't had too many fireworks

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Re: Mia - a new chapter begins

Post by ThorpeDave » Sun Nov 04, 2018 5:49 pm

Lilith wrote:I'm so sorry you've had this setback.

I would let Mia hide. In her favourite room (preferably your bedroom so she can be with you all night) with her favourite foods and a tray and so on. I'd special her.

Hendrix is being a LOUT and a THUG - but he'll get his comeuppance - once he's had his op and is feeling fragile, that is the time Mia can start coming back into her own again. Poor lass, she's had a lot to cope with but hopefully with your support she'll have been building up some resistance ...
:)
We are doing our best to spoil Mia as much as possible to re-assure her that this is HER home and that we WILL look after her. She has had a difficult life so far and we don't want that to continue. She has gained a lot of confidence in recent months and is a totally different creature to the one we found, hungry and scared in our garden 15 months ago.

Hendrix is a wonderful cat and can be so sweet and loves his fusses too. I suppose he is just being a 16 year old at the moment who needs to grow up and learn respect. Not wholly unexpected and no surprise. The suddenness of it however was!

It is frustrating that we have to wait so long for his op as - if it is his hormones - he could get worse between now and then!

Fireworks and the weather are also probably not helping Mia plus the fact that Hendrix now also goes out so Mia is finding it difficult to escape - especially as we are doing our best to increase security in our garden. One of the local bullies has not been seen since we put up some steel mesh on the entry gate. The other is, however still a frequent visitor but his route in will be blocked next weekend.

Dave

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Re: Mia - a new chapter begins

Post by Mayday21 » Sun Nov 04, 2018 9:11 pm

Hi 2 weeks seems a long time to wait for Hendrix’s op. They must be a very busy practice. Think Lilith’s has given good advice re Mia having access to your bedroom. Hopefully with your weather cooling both will prefer to curl up inside. Keep us posted. Btw mt TC is a tad over 7kg! Vivian

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