Buying a cat from a breeder

[Hazel]

I know this website is about rescuing and rehoming cats, but there will always be people who want to buy a specific breed.
With that in mind I wanted to post this table showing the differences between a good breeder and a back yard breeder (and all the versions in between) and ask that anyone who comes across this thread and is looking to buy a breed of cat:

1) Considers rescuing a moggy, go and have a look in the rescue centres, you might find you can't resist and come home with a few!
2) If that's not an option - look for a breed specific rescue website, all breeds will have one.
3) Get in touch with the breed clubs and only ever buy from an experienced reputable breeder or a serious hobby breeder (the two on the right).

Nobody should be purposely 'breeding' moggies, these people are only trying to make a quick buck!

I hope the link/attachment works (and yes I know it's about puppies but the point is the same).

[Hunnybunny]

Although it is everything that I'm opposed to and feel that you have to be morally very compromised and a lover of a breed not a true cat lover to go to a breeder during these times of crisis when 1000's of moggies are destroyed every year I think you have a very valid point in trying to educate people in the difference between a 'reputable breeder' (sorry I cant stretch to using the word good) and not just a back street breeder who are doing so much damage to both rescue and pedigree cats alike.

Back street breeders are the scum at the bottom of the barrel way, way below the idiots that just don't get their cats neutered due to lack of education or sheer ignorance.

I'm truly sick to death of seeing adverts for BSH X, Bengal X etc. What they mean is they bought an un papered breed and let it out to get pregnant by any old roving tom with the intention of making money...............urghhhhhhh...... blood is truly boiling.

[oggers86]

I agree with this. Good breeders should not be punished, buying a pedigree does not mean that it means one less home for a rescue cat.

When the time came for me to add another cat into our lives, my husband and I decided on Bengals. I did so much research and contacted many breeders but so many were crossed off the list, many did not even scan for HCM. In the end we decided against it and went to CP and got our two moggies.

Later on I developed a fascination with the Siamese breed and when I was finally allowed to add a third it had to be a Siamese. I wanted a kitten so a breed rescue was out. I would not have contemplated going to CP and getting a moggy because I wanted a specific personality and you stand a higher chance of getting that personality due to breed traits than a random selection with a moggy. I am so glad I made that choice, his personality is exactly what I was hoping for. There will be some variations, he is not as talkative as some but overall he is a true Siamese.

My next cat will be a Devon Rex, again after a lot of research they have the right kind of personality, not to mention the quirky looks that make them so adorable.

I suspect I will not have a moggy again unless I rehome an adult with a set personality as you have literally no idea what they will turn out like, especially as generally you are not sure what their parents are like. With a pedigree you can see their mum and sometimes their dad and get to spend time with them and see what kind of personality they have which will often be passed down onto their kittens.

When looking for a breeder my main priorities were:
1. Kittens leave at 13 weeks with 4 weeks insurance and 4-5 generation pedigree
2. Health tested if required (e.g. HCM in Bengals, Birmans, Ragdolls)
3. Not too many queens in kitten at the same time as it means the breeder can not give them their full attention
4. Kittens raised in the house and used to being handled and day to day noises
5. Vaccinated at 9 and 12 weeks
6. The breeder has a purpose: To better the breed, give people lovely pets
7. The breeder offers full support and advice
8. Clean, healthy, lively kittens and a relaxed mum
9. Prospective buyers questioned on why they want the breed, what is their lifestyle etc
10. Registered with the GCCF
11. Fully knowledgeable on the breed
12. Cats and humans were not living in utter squalor, with kittens mess is inevitable but you can clearly tell if it is fresh or ingrained.

When it came to choosing a breeder for my Siamese I found one who seemed ok at first but their communication was a bit off and they didn't really answer my questions. They didnt seem all that bothered about meeting my husband or took the time to question me about why I wanted a Siamese. The last straw was when I was asked for a deposit to secure a kitten I had never even met. Big no no, no way was I sending money to a stranger for a kitten I had not even met because she was too impatient to wait until we had visited. I went elsewhere and I am so glad I did!!! My breeder is lovely, she will be there if I need her, she loves the breed, wants to produce amazing kittens and is generally passionate about what she does. She kept a kitten back from the last litter to show and he is doing really well.

I had people try and make me feel guilty because I didnt rescue a cat but at the end of the day I didnt put those cats there. If they do not fit my lifestyle then I should not be obliged to take one on just because some people cant be bothered to keep their cats or get them spayed or neutered.

My post is rather long but as you can see I am very passionate about supporting reputable breeders. That being said if you honestly do not care about breed traits then I would quite happily recommend going to a rescue. That is much more preferable than getting a kitten off Gumtree, at least with a rescue they will health check their kittens and attempt to match you with the right cat. They will also offer any advice and just like a breeder would take the cat back if things did not work out. There is a girl in my local CP who has been there for years but she is completely unsuitable to our home as she doesnt like cats (especially not a hyper Meezer kitten!), if she wasnt I would actually consider adopting her so she could live out her years in a real home.

[Janey]

Just for information, Pedigrees do find themselves in regular rescue centres sometimes, but rarely kittens - nearly always it is adult pedigrees in rescue. But for those who will only consider a particular breed, they could consider an adult, or even a 'young adult'. There is a list of specialist pedigree rescues here on the main Cat Chat site:

http://www.catchat.org/adoption/pedigree.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Hunnybunny]

I had people try and make me feel guilty because I didnt rescue a cat but at the end of the day I didnt put those cats there. If they do not fit my lifestyle then I should not be obliged to take one on just because some people cant be bothered to keep their cats or get them spayed or neutered.

Blimey...... maybe we shouldn't help anybody or anything if we were't directly responsible for it!!!

I wouldn't like to live in a world full of people with this attitude!!!!

[Hazel]

I totally understand people's feelings towards breeders, this is after all a rescue site. I was a bit dubious about posting for that very reason, but I do feel quite strongly that some people will buy a specific breed and they need to be doing this the right way, getting cross breeds and kittens with no papers increases the cat population (hence the rescue population) a lot because these people will breed more to fill the demand.

All pedigree cats should come with papers, most will be on the non-breeding register so you are not supposed to breed from them and if you do you can't register their kittens....so if a cat or kitten has no papers you are immediately looking at a back yard breeder.

It's not always older cats in the pedigree rescues either, I have seen some around 5-7 months old. Do consider the oldies though, my Max was a 9 year old Siamese who ended up in rescue with his (moggie) friend Misty when their owner died. He still had all the personality traits of a Siamese kitten, bonded with us totally etc, but was much much less destructive than any kitten! I love oldies!

[oggers86]

I had people try and make me feel guilty because I didnt rescue a cat but at the end of the day I didnt put those cats there. If they do not fit my lifestyle then I should not be obliged to take one on just because some people cant be bothered to keep their cats or get them spayed or neutered.

Blimey...... maybe we shouldn't help anybody or anything if we were't directly responsible for it!!!

I wouldn't like to live in a world full of people with this attitude!!!!

Yes I know it sounds harsh but at the end of the day it is true. Sometimes rescue cats do not fit the bill so we go to a breeder specialising in a breed that has the traits that will fit our family life. It seems odd that pedigree dogs seem a lot more accepted yet cats are not.

Like I said, if it was a choice between Gumtree or CP people should be going to CP. Buying kittens off BYB just encourages them to breed more because they think it is easy money. There will never be enough homes for all the cats that are in rescues. People need to stop throwing their cats away for idiotic reasons "It scratched my furniture" "It is running away and hiding (after 1 day)" "I am having a baby and my cat was just a baby substitute so now it can go away"

That would certainly help ease the problems of the overflowing rescues and leave the spaces for the cats who have been given up for genuine reasons.

[charlie_rabbit01]

Hi ooogers we were the same as you we wanted a siamese for the personality and I spent a long time researching, something like Hazels post would have been sooo useful.

HunnyBunny everyone is entitled to their own choices and opinions please do not be rude to those who dont agree with you.

[oggers86]

Hi ooogers we were the same as you we wanted a siamese for the personality and I spent a long time researching, something like Hazels post would have been sooo useful.

HunnyBunny everyone is entitled to their own choices and opinions please do not be rude to those who dont agree with you.

Exactly. People should never feel they are pushed into getting a cat young or old from a rescue if it does not suit. The only thing we need to be warning them off are BYB.

[KittyWitty]

Yes - this is perfect!

Not everyone can rescue or even wants too and those people still deserve respect which may come as a surprise to some people. We just need to educate people on the type of breeders to go to and to always get their kittens and cats spayed/neutered!

[Crewella]

No, of course people shouldn't be pushed into getting a cat that does not suit, and I agree with Hazel's reasons for posting this, but rescues are full of older cats with fully formed personalities that nobody will give a home to. For the people who have to look at their little faces, stuck in a pen month after month, with nobody coming forwards to rehome them, it's hard to take.

Again, I understand why Hazel has posted and agree with her reasons, but, with the greatest respect, I don't think it's particularly tactful to carry on advocating buying from breeders on a rescue website. It's kind of a red rag to a bull!

[Hunnybunny]

Of cause we are all entitled to our own opinions and mine is that as perviously stated it is morally wrong to pay for a cat when so many die because they can't find a home purely because it isn't the right colour or doesn't look how we want or have some trait. REAL and TRUE cat lovers don't care about breeds they just love cats.

It is morally wrong to breed any cat at the moment when there is such a massive surplus of cats, moggies and pedigrees.

The highlighted statement above comes in my top ten repugnant statements and my god I hear some stuff.

As always yes I will not sugar coat things and will not sit on the fence about something that I am absolutely resolute and passionate about. I find it almost offensive that people with such attitudes come onto a rescue forum............!!!!

[booktigger]

As much as I wish people would adopt from rescues, most breeds have been around for a lot longer than any of us on this forum, and I think it would be a shame to lose a breed that has been around for hundreds of years because irresponsible people can't neuter their cat. I don't think there should be new breeds being bred though, and people should do their homework to avoid health/behavioural issues from people who have just wanted to make a quick buck. I also don't have an issue with people wanting a specific look, or trait (there are certain breeds I love the look of, but it would have to be one in a rescue for me to adopt), even if it does get frustrating when people turn down your kittens without viewing them just because of their colour - if we all liked the same, the world would be rather a boring place.

And as for it being offensive to post on a rescue forum, I think it is a good idea, as people may not be aware of breed rescues, and it might make them rethink where they buy a cat from, and then less likely to give it up because they can't cope with it. IF someone rings asking me to take in a pedigree, I always ask them to speak to the breed rescue first, as they know more about that cats needs than I do, and better suited to vet a prospective owner than me.

[Marla]

I can't see any reason to buy from a breeder when there are thousands of lovely cats languishing in rescues and being put down simply because there aren't enough homes. Rescue cats are just as loving and beautiful as any pedigree cat.

For those who absolutely have to have a pedigree cat, there are always ex-breeding queens and toms on Gumtree, Preloved, etc that have reached the end of their usefulness to the breeder.

[Hunnybunny]

Don't get me wrong, we have to protect certain breeds but at the moment in the current climate it would be nice to have a few years ban to help re home the rescues.

I would love nothing more than be in a position to with a clear conscience go to a breeder and get the breed I want but in all moral conscience not when there are so many cats surplus to requirement.

I think Hazel is right to post this in the 1st place as people desperately need educating about buying from a breeder and not just somebody that has bred..... as we know theres a huge difference but what I do find offensive is the people on here that clearly have no interest or empathy for rescue cats.

I also promote pedigree rescues when and wherever possible as pedigree rescue is also a struggle. It has just taken me 5 months to home a wonderful ex breeding pair of Ragdolls although I did specifically want outside access so it was more difficult.

[KittyWitty]

Don't get me wrong, we have to protect certain breeds but at the moment in the current climate it would be nice to have a few years ban to help re home the rescues.

I would love nothing more than be in a position to with a clear conscience go to a breeder and get the breed I want but in all moral conscience not when there are so many cats surplus to requirement.

I think Hazel is right to post this in the 1st place as people desperately need educating about buying from a breeder and not just somebody that has bred..... as we know theres a huge difference but what I do find offensive is the people on here that clearly have no interest or empathy for rescue cats.

I also promote pedigree rescues when and wherever possible as pedigree rescue is also a struggle. It has just taken me 5 months to home a wonderful ex breeding pair of Ragdolls although I did specifically want outside access so it was more difficult.

Poor babies! I am so surprised it has took you so long to rehome Ragdolls! Was there just no interest in them as Ragdolls or was it some other reason?

[Hunnybunny]

R and B.jpg (23.55 KiB) Viewed 7435 times

They were 6 years old, had suffered all those years in a state of neglect. They weighed just under 3kg each when we removed them which if you know Raggies is extremely underweight!! Even after months of treatment he was left with damaged sinuses and she was blind in one eye (a consequence of un treated cat flu) They cost over £800 to get back to health.

Fortunately they were in a lovely foster home with outside access which they loved living on roast chicken and sea bass so no hardship to them.

I could of homed them many times over but most people think pedigrees should remain housebound and as you may know I'm viscously opposed to all cats (a few medical conditions/ exceptions) having outside access as part of a happy and balanced life.

Anyway the perfect location did turn up and she didn't care if mogs or pedigree and ticked every box. Thy have really landed on their big hairy hobbit paws

[SarahT1 [PLLE]]

They are beautiful! What a happy ending for these babies. I'm interested - have they got completely free roaming outdoor access, or controlled outdoor access such as an enclosed garden? I know, like many others, if I saw a ragdoll trotting around the neighbourhood I would be really surprised.

[Hazel]

Where I used to live a lady owned about 3 or 4 Persians (not sure how many as they looked the same!) who had totally free access, although they were always in or close to her garden. Max had totally free outdoor access and there is a Siamese close to where I live that I see outside sometimes. Mika has an enclosed run but he really has no sense.

Thanks for all the comments. I wasn't wanting to open up a breeder/rescue debate, advocate buying over rescuing, or to be insensitive to rescues, but rather to educate the people who will buy a pedigree anyway and might come across this thread on a search or already be part of the cat chatting community.

Although pedigree dogs are more common, this means so too are the BYB breeding cross breeds and cheap breeds with no papers. It would be a shame if the cat world became as bad as the dog world for this. For what it's worth I'm not against owning a pedigree dog or cat, but it should be something that people look into very carefully and not a purchase on a whim off scum tree because you saw someone else with one and it looked cute.

[Hazel]

I can't see any reason to buy from a breeder when there are thousands of lovely cats languishing in rescues and being put down simply because there aren't enough homes. Rescue cats are just as loving and beautiful as any pedigree cat.

For those who absolutely have to have a pedigree cat, there are always ex-breeding queens and toms on Gumtree, Preloved, etc that have reached the end of their usefulness to the breeder.

I would say scum tree is a bad place to get any cat. Breeders could rehome ex-breeding cats through the breed rescues, clubs or to people who,want kittens from them (or why wouldn't they just retire them and keep them?) Putting them on scum tree is like trying to get every last penny out of them. I don't think advertising animals for sale should even be allowed in the classified ads, let alone on those sites

[Marla]

I agree Hazel, I just feel so sorry for those cats.

[canterbury-cats]

Hello all as a person who has three pedigree cats but also is very actively involved in rescue, I can say there are lots of lovely pedigree cats out there in rescue looking for homes.. I have myself this yr rehomed several including siamese & Bengal..i know of two pedigrees in local rescue at the moment a Bombay & rag doll. Responsible pedigree breeder do not need to advertise x breeding cats people find them through reputation. I have always had pedigree cats in my life but have adopted via small breeders very difficult cats & I have adopted moggies.. Responsible pedigree breeders can indeed help rescues buy helping to rehome their breed type.. Back street pedigree breeders are to same as people letting their cats have loads of kittens and don't neuter in later life..

There are always going to be people who want pedigree cats