Hi; bouncing off a situation: kitten I raised supposed to be indoor yet hit by a car w/adoptive family

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tortie adore
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Hi; bouncing off a situation: kitten I raised supposed to be indoor yet hit by a car w/adoptive family

Post by tortie adore »

Hi; a situation keeps going through my mind so the kitten I raised that was hit by a car when w/his adoptive family and my terrible sadness at that is being compounded by their reaction: mad at me for not allowing them "space to grieve" when I am afraid for the 2nd of the 2 cats that I raised and they adopted. They will not directly tell me whether the cat getting out and getting hit by a car was a terrible one-off accident or whether it is just a horrible by-product of them starting to let the cat out even though they told me it would be an indoor cat.I have a feeling they had started to let the cats out just from a few things: I know they let them out in the snow, one day, for instance, when it snowed 12 inches (but they couldn't get far).
Yes, obviously cats are theirs. But they haven't even apologized. Thannks
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Re: Hi; bouncing off a situation: kitten I raised supposed to be indoor yet hit by a car w/adoptive family

Post by booktigger »

Welcome to CatChat. I'm sorry that one of the kittens has been hit by a car, when you wanted them to be indoor only, but unfortunately you don't have say in what they do with kittens, unless you are a breeder and have a clause in your contract that they have to remain indoor only cats, so I don't think they need to aoplogise to you, or even to explain the circumstances behind him getting out to you.
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Re: Hi; bouncing off a situation: kitten I raised supposed to be indoor yet hit by a car w/adoptive family

Post by tortie adore »

Booktigger, I must say I think you have a very unusual reaction. When someone to whom you've given a cat tells you the cat will be indoors that gives one peace of mind that the cat is likely to be safer, much longer. (Please see any of the threads in this category re people who have unfortunate guilt because they didn't keep cat indoors and it was hit by a car). We had a choice of adoptive parents. If they had kept the cat indoors but for some reason they didn't know the cat was near the door and suddenly it shot out, for instance, my anger would be minimized.The cat would still be dead; but it would be more like a tragic accident.
Your response seems geared to someone who doesn't know the adoptive family. I know this family. Moreover, your response makes no mention of my obvious concern for the 2nd cat I raised that they adopted. However, I do appreciate the response, as it seems to mirror the unfortunate tack that this family is taking. It is unsettling to know that people considered upstanding, who you have known for years, after one has given them something as valuable as 2 perfect kittens (pretty much like one's first-born after I raised them for 11 weeks) do not wish to receive any input about how to keep 2nd kitten safe.
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Re: Hi; bouncing off a situation: kitten I raised supposed to be indoor yet hit by a car w/adoptive family

Post by Mollycat »

Welcome to the forum, and sorry for your loss. It's always hard to accept death when life has barely begun, and hard to accept what we feel is betrayal from people we thought we knew.

Perhaps it's fair to point out there inevitably tends to be a "forum culture" where like minds gather, always with differences of course, but most of us here seem to be UK based where indoor/outdoor cats are still the norm and it's all about rescue cats, therefore common moggies rather than pedigrees and breeders. Although of course there's some of everyone from around the world. But it does mean that the idea that we give a cat or sell a cat and retain any say in its future isn't really part of us ... it's not that we don't sympathise or care, its perhaps more that people who truly fully share your anger don't tend to hang out here. This isn't a community that gets hugely riled up about the "best" food or the intolerable dangers of letting a cat roam. I spent my Saturday helping a neighbour deal with the risks of letting cats out at hers was attacked by a dog and is due home today missing one leg, but she would not dream of now keeping both her cats indoors - perhaps that shows how important some outdoor life is for the cat owners who believe in it. Maybe I should stop saying we and own it more - I personally have an indoor only cat because I have no direct outdoor access, so I didn't take a kitten, I adopted adult cats who were already happy being indoor only, but I still see value in access to outdoors even if it's a secure enclosure.

I think Booktigger was talking about the second kitten in saying maybe unless you're a breeder with kitten contracts you don't have a say in what the kitten's owners choose to do. Though of course they shouldn't have promised to keep them indoors if they had no intention of keeping that promise, that's not a nice way to behave. Do you have any written contract of sale that specifies indoor only, or just a verbal agreement? If you have something in writing you might be able to go to court to try and get the kitten back, but I would consider carefully that it has a home where it is loved, even if you're not happy with the way it is loved, and what it would do to the kitten to be taken away from that home and either go through the integration process with your own cats or be passed on again to yet another home. Interestingly there is even a movement among vets now to balance the psychological well being of cats and their relationship with their pet humans, against their physical health. Physical safety is not the only consideration.

We all find something to feel guilty about when we lose a pet or a beloved person for that matter. Guilt is an essential stage of the grieving process. I'm a fully qualified loss and grief therapist. Anger is a big part of it too. If many of those people had kept their cats indoors and it had fallen victim to a household accident or one of the many illnesses of which the risk increases in indoor cats, the would have found a way to feel guilty about that instead.
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Re: Hi; bouncing off a situation: kitten I raised supposed to be indoor yet hit by a car w/adoptive family

Post by tortie adore »

Thanks, Mollycat and Booktigger. No contract -- never even thought of one. Plus, this is a really good home! They gave a 21=year old blind cat. Which is why I thought they knew how to keep cats safe.I never considered asking for 2nd cat back. Just want him kept safe. This cat death has to be hard on their tween kids. The kids adored the cat.
I of course would love a cat to roam outdoors as well. But, the cat we adopted was in heat and got out shortly after we adopted her when I opened door to take a pic. I spent 2.5 days in agony, posting her picture everywhere and hearing from the neighborhood fireman how she probably got eaten by a coyote. I don't know if you have coyotes in the U.K. I've seen one saunter through our yard. We live in a suburb. They have cats as appetizers. A cat is no match for a coyote. I know a wonderful couple who got a cat about every 3 yrs when theirs was eaten by a coyote.
So, between that and cars, dogs, and other cats, these risks are not one I wish to take w/the kittens I spent 11 weeks raising.The fireman who told me that my cat probably got eaten by a coyote said that his family had had about 20 cats. One night the cat doesn't come home. People put alerts all over social media. I don't want to live like that. I don't want my cat to get squished under a car or eaten by a coyote every 2-5 years. That's the avg. life of an indoor-outdoor cat in U.S.; avg. life of indoor cat is 13-17 yrs.
So, if the adoptive family wants to take risks like that w/other cats, that's their perogative.. But not the ones I spent 11 weeks raising when they told me they'd be indoor cats.ake
You can bet that after I spent 2.5 days in agony -- when I came home from the fireman telling me the cat was probably eaten by a coyote, and I saw that the food I'd put out had been eaten, and then 10 mins later saw my little cat's head at the back door, you can bet I don't open the screen door anymore w/o scouring the room for cats.
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Re: Hi; bouncing off a situation: kitten I raised supposed to be indoor yet hit by a car w/adoptive family

Post by Mollycat »

Yeah I thought you were probably in the US - no we don't have coyotes, bears, cougars, wolves or anything like the snakes. All we have are foxes, in urban areas, and although some do fight with cats it can go either way, some can be friends, but mostly they just ignore each other. Wildlife just isn't a major danger here, and I do understand why indoors is very much the norm for you guys. In fact my neighbour's cat has triggered some more comments about the whole indoor/outdoor dilemma, with more of us coming to accept it. As I said, my choice was indoor cat or no cat, so I took indoor still very against the idea but I have come to realise it's not always so simple. Sadly there have also been 3 people attacks on cats, two of them fatal, nobody ever caught, in the last two years in my local area of about 7000 homes, that's a lot really, and I have come home and looked at my own cats sleeping peacefully and felt grateful that these things can't happen to them.

I don't know how you can move forward for keeping the other kitten safe, other than pleading with them, but unfortunately in the end you can't force them to listen. It seems they lied to you and that's wrong, but I can also sympathise with them needing to grieve without being berated for what you feel they did wrong. Hard as it is, maybe they just made different choices and nobody's right or wrong. As I've mentioned in the dog attack thread, I met some people who had free roaming rabbits, who felt that a short intensely happy natural life beat a long bored miserable life. It's a courageous point of view but I'm not sure it's reckless or uncaring, maybe respectful of an animal's lack of concept of length of life. All they know is I feel fine or I feel sick, I am happy or I am unhappy. We are the ones who carry the burden of anxiety for the future and regrets for the past, and place higher value on the length of life more than its depth or quality (That's a reference to Ralph Waldo Emerson by the way - "It is not the length of life, but its depth").

I hope something someone can offer you here can help heal your sadness and anger even if we can't soothe your anxiety for the future of this other kitten. Hopefully they might have shown the surviving kitten the body so that it could understand that the road hurt its friend and to be more wary. I know it is possible to teach cats to be afraid of roads, I have done it successfully though the layout of the area was on my side.
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Re: Hi; bouncing off a situation: kitten I raised supposed to be indoor yet hit by a car w/adoptive family

Post by booktigger »

Hi, actually I did cat rescue for 14.5 years and fostered 252 cats/kittens, so I probably have a different view that once you give up a cat for homing, you don't have any say in what happens to them (and I did end a friendship after someone adopted one of my cats and then dumped him on me, she asked me to look after him temporarily due to emergency house renovation and then never came back for him). Unfortunately I don't think you have any way of forcing them to keep the other one safe (and as you have said, this might have been a tragic accident) - if they had gone against what they said, this might change their mind and make them keep the other kitten as indoor only and if you push too much while they are grieving, they could cut you off completely, so you do need to be careful.
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Re: Hi; bouncing off a situation: kitten I raised supposed to be indoor yet hit by a car w/adoptive family

Post by tortie adore »

Hi, Booktigger/Mollycat, and thanks

Yes, that's true; I do realize I can't force them to do anything; the issue is how I can get them to keep 2nd cat safe through persuasion. Has anyone needed to persuade someone in this situation?
Added to the upset is that I had never raised kittens -- had never had a cat - and so these kittens were like my first born.
And I do appreciate your perspective, Mollycat (what you said re guilt is true, I think when it comes to the life and death 1 yr later of a kitten I raised; if, as I suspect, the adoptive family having made different choices than the ones they told me they'd make led to a gorgeous perfect kitten being killed by a car after a year rather than having a long and happy life.THere are leashes and catios that can enable a cat to be outside.
In the U.S. at least, so many cat rescues have seen too many cats lost to things described above, so some ask people to sign contracts that cats will remain inside (or catios,leashes)
Am so glad for this forum bc while I have a few friends who kind of get it, only one really gets it: "that was your kitten," she said. There's just no way you can disattach from the outcome re a kitten you've raised since birth for 10 weeks.
Again, if adoptive family didn't have another of the kittens, it would be different. I would still be upset, but wouldn't feel the need to try and make a better outcome for 2nd kitten. And no one seems to understand this need. They all recoil in horror at the idea of "interfering." But I say that if interfering leads to kitten remaining alive, it's worth it even if i'm not very popular.
Last edited by tortie adore on Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Bertie 2017
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Re: Hi; bouncing off a situation: kitten I raised supposed to be indoor yet hit by a car w/adoptive family

Post by Bertie 2017 »

Hi first I am very sorry for your loss ,but sadly people have a mind of their own ,yes I
Have always had outside cats ,but the place where I live is getting so busy ,houses popping
Up everywhere ,and the roads mega busy ,I feel it isn’t safe anymore for my cat ,Basil ,
I know that may sound cruel ,but in the last few years our Street alone has lost nine cats .
Too the traffic , I love My Basil ,and wish too keep him alive and safe ,he is such a lazy cat .
so please don’t feel responsible ,I have re homed kittens in the past ,and allowed myself
to full in love ,with them ,, and even cried after they left ,so I understand how you feel,
It’s natural too feel ,like it’s your fault ,but it isn’t ,and that poor kitten ,but sadly ,
It was out of your hands ,and fate can be so cruel and unkind , I speak on behalf of the
Catchat supporters we are here if you need too talk x
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Re: Hi; bouncing off a situation: kitten I raised supposed to be indoor yet hit by a car w/adoptive family

Post by tortie adore »

Thanks, Bertie and all others who have responded:
Your heartfelt responses are so appreciated. Bertie, I would keep Basil inside except for catio/leash/harness. Better that than what I'm exp. A few mos. ago cat ran right in front of my car.I avoided it but barely. Cats are smart but obviously cats and cars don't mix. Better safe than sorry.
And I don't really blame myself. We obviously cldn't keep all 5 kittens (kept 2) and this home would seemingly be perfect w/2 responsible professionals I've known for years, loving kids, nice house, and a 21-year old cat already. They got 1st dibs on cats (even before us) bc I'd been told it's imposs. to give cats away. (although we love ours enormously).
Since they got 2 kittens i'm betw a rock adn a hard place bc i don't want 2nd kitten dead if they don't change tack, so i had to say something. But I have a friend who used to say "do you remember when you said x, y, z in 1987?" and of course no one wants to be reminded of their screw-ups, particularly if they're basically a decent person who tries. So i'm working against human nature.
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