Stray or feral?

[dtmark]

About two years ago we had a problem with a stray attacking our pair, a large tabby who after a lot of help on here and some effort was captured, neutered, and is now living happily in a new home thanks to a rescue and rehoming centre.

Our pair have passed on now, sadly. However we think we have another stray which we would love to adopt.

I do think, though, that this one may be feral. Are there any clues which give this away?

I've taken some footage of him with a wildlife camera. He's quite a big boy, semi long haired, with a lovely face.

We leave food for him on the back door step but he does still come indoors at night (suspect he used to do that when we had our pair, and we didn't even know) though he won't normally find food since we don't have any cats now. But he still comes in for a look around anyway.

I left some for him last night inside the cat flap as I thought I'd get bright footage but forgot and turned the light off so it's infra red which isn't helpful. You can see the back of him though. I don't think he is neutered.

He will not be approached at all. On the occasions where we have come face to face, there is something about his eyes, and also his movement - low slung, maybe reminiscent of a wild cat than a domestic one. Perhaps I imagine too much.

My best bet is to leave food inside and lie on the floor at the other end of the corridor to talk to him from a distance when he comes in. He will tolerate that, just, as long as he knows he can escape well before I can get near him.

Here he is in daylight:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MauDLZkgxjM" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Indoors:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpjP7xuIFQU" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Infra Red makes him look tabby, but he isn't.

Leaving - just a couple of seconds:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3u_PVrNpOQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Since we've been leaving food out for him, his condition has improved tremendously, he looks quite different now to when I first saw him.

Any insight anyone can offer from that brief footage?

[dtmark]

The date on the first video is wrong, we'd only just got the camera and hadn't set the date and time.

On watching the second and third videos - he was actually here for 9 minutes. I wonder what he was doing in that time apart from scenting things - I can always tell when he has been in. He's certainly familiar with the inside of our house.

I'll set the camera up tonight to see the whole kitchen and find out.

I suspect he's coming a lot more than he used to since our pair have passed now and he can smell they're not about any more. He sprays the garden daily.

[Lilith]

Hi dtmark and congrats on your lad an good on yer for providing much needed support for him

I think the terms 'stray' and 'feral' are pretty much interchangeable, though others may have different opinions. I tend to use the word 'stray' for a cat that has been deliberately abandoned/lost its way/ decided to move from an unsatisfactory home and find something better ie a cat who has known a domestic background and would like more of the same, and 'feral' for a cat that has been 'on the road' either from birth or for the best part of its life and who may be living in a colony of similar ferals, hunting for its own food and surviving as best it can. Living a wild life with no recourse to domesticity - though if a feral is offered the chance of domesticity and regular meals, it's quite incredible, the change you may see. I got to know a couple of toms who wouldn't come near me - as they got older and life got harder, they turned themselves in and became soppily domestic, even the fiercest one.

Is your lad neutered? (I haven't watched all the videos - forgive me - but if he's an entire tom, it will be unmistakeable lol - they stand out a mile!) If so it implies some responsible ownership in his background. It could also imply that he's got another home in the district but prefers you. This could be a little tricky - it happened to me once, but I rang the RSPCA for guidance and was told that if the cat had been living with me for over a fortnight, I could legally class it as mine. I don't know whether this ruling has changed. The cat was neglected and un-neutered and wanted to stay with me. The law classes a cat as a 'roaming animal' and not always to be controlled by an owner. If your lad's coming in regularly for food and shelter, it sounds as if he's adopted you - certainly looks like your care's showing; he's gorgeous. I do hope he stays and becomes yours.

Oops sorry about the screed - hope it helps, and hope he starts to tame down and trust you - sounds to me as if the process is already starting. When they come round - they come round - it is such a rewarding experience, and they give you so much love in return for all your love and patience.

Best of luck with him

[Crewella]

I don't have the many years experience that some on here do, but from what I've seen it's really hard to tell whether a cat is stray or feral until you really start to try to interact with them. I've had two long term strays that took months to trap, but turned into complete wussy pussies within a week or so of being caught, so obviously had been handled at some point. Personally, I don't think it matters, just keep interacting and feeding them, and they usually eventually come round even if they never make it to lap cat levels of friendliness. He's a lucky boy to have found you!

[dtmark]

Thanks everyone. I'm nearly certain that he has no home. He isn't neutered.

We're now at the "put posters up in the village" stage again (been here before!) asking "Is this your cat?" to make sure. I have a decent photo of him now that I can use.

We're actually emigrating in a few months, if we do adopt him, we'll have to hire a van and drive from Hampshire to Amsterdam with him in it. That's the only reason we haven't got another cat yet.

Or, have him adopted here, either way, he would seem to win. I can't rely on the new occupants of this house to feed him but then I suspect we might well find when we put the posters up that other people have been feeding him, too.

I question the "feral" aspect as although I have no idea of his age - he's quite bright eyed but "dirty looking" - his behaviour makes me think that he has either never interacted with people, or it was so long ago he doesn't really remember them.

Actually, it is just possible that this is the same black cat that was in the garden when we moved here nearly seven years ago - we saw him a few times, but when we then moved in with our one we never saw him again - until now, because ours aren't around any more.

I shall work on him

[Kay]

if he doesn't spray inside the house, or near it outside, it could be he has been 'done', as in my admittedly limited experience with local unneutered but not feral farm cats they spray liberally and regularly around a kennel I leave outside for them

[dtmark]

if he doesn't spray inside the house, or near it outside, it could be he has been 'done', as in my admittedly limited experience with local unneutered but not feral farm cats they spray liberally and regularly around a kennel I leave outside for them

He sprays the kitchen - I can smell it - and each day works his way along the side of the garden - a line of trees - spraying them quite methodically.

If I go out into the garden while he's at the other end, and I don't look at him, he will remain. If I turn to look at him or make even a single step in his direction he runs.

[dtmark]

The IR footage isn't very clear, but here's an expanded slightly enhanced view of him on his way out.

[Crewella]

If I go out into the garden while he's at the other end, and I don't look at him, he will remain. If I turn to look at him or make even a single step in his direction he runs.

That does sound like my Peaches, who was a true feral trapped with kittens and had no concept of human interaction or being stroked. She taught me a lot about cat etiquette - I used to have to avoid making eye contact, keep my body side-on and elaborately yawn and do slow blinks when I caught her eye. I also used to hover by her food bowl, talking to her but pretending to be busy with my shoe laces or something to give her confidence to approach. She did become very friendly on her own terms and loved a fuss, but remained wary and always kept her feral awareness of things like if you were between her and the door and blocking her escape route. Sadly, we lost her to the road after a couple of years, so never got to find out just how trusting she would become, though I suspect she would have made it to full-on cuddly.

[bobbys girl]

When Tommy first came to us he was just like your boy. We think that he belonged to a near neighbour. She had 2 cats, brother and sister. Neither of them were house cats, the female lived quite feral (she was Willow's mum). They 'left home' when the neighbour got 2 terriers.

Tom would hiss if you got too close. But I won him over with food. I would put food out, slowly, while he was there. Then, instead of leaving him to eat, I stood with him. I got to the point where he wouldn't get food until he let me stroke him. He turned up one day with a nasty-looking sore over one eye. We borrowed a trap from the vet and got him treated and neutered.

Now, as Helen said, he has turned into a wussy pussy. He sometimes sits on my knee (that can be very painful - he has enormous paws and claws and likes to pad). He loves being brushed and sleeps on my feet.

I hope it all works out for you and you are able to take him with you when you emigrate (good luck with that too!) Friends of ours took their cat with them when they moved to Spain - by ferry to Northern Spain, then cross country. They had to get her use to a harness. But you would probably not have to got that far!

Tom and Bobby never spray in the house, but if upset, or her authority as top cat is threatened, Purdy does.

[Lilith]

With my two toms, both were middleaged and unneutered, I had them done and one never sprayed in the house but the other one was a walking water feature at first. Gradually, I'm assuming because of falling testosterone levels, he improved; it took months but after that he used his tray like a good 'un. He came to me a year before the second tom, so it wasn't rivalry; the other cats were neutered girls. He used to have a blast at the odd car bumper or hubcap, just to keep his hand in, so to speak, but in the house he was great.

Good luck for the future

[dtmark]

I tried lying on the kitchen floor one night - I had some work I could do, and he came in.

I was at the other end of the kitchen, side on, and I didn't look at him directly.

I had left the food near the cat flap as far away from me as possible.

Just me being there was enough to make him turn and leave.

I did catch him once as I came down the stairs - he was in the kitchen, me at the other end of the corridor. He stared at me for a while. I spoke to him quietly. He remained for about five seconds. At no time was he threatened because he was far nearer the cat flap than I was to him.

I don't detect "fear" in him as such, just a desire to be nowhere near people.

I *could* set the cat flap to "in only" but I rather fear that's going to set us off on precisely the wrong footing. I would do this if I knew he were suffering, unwell or injured but there is no evidence of that.

We trapped the previous stray here and had him homed, but we were left with no choice after he repeatedly attacked our pair. The dynamic was different.

The "hand feeding" idea is the one, I think, though I have tried this but I cannot get anywhere near him even when he's outside nor can I predict when he will come which is mostly at night.

If I withdraw the food and try to "feed him" this way, my suspicion is that it's the last we'll see of him.

This one is going to be a challenge.

[Kay]

I think your instincts are spot on - the one thing you need to avoid at all costs is frightening him - he will only come round, if he's going to, by learning that interaction with humans is not the scary thing he believes it to be

unfortunately being neutered is a big part of this process, so trapping him and having him done may have to be done before you carry on the process of taming him

when I first rescued my Tosker he wouldn't come into the house, and unfortunately was able to climb out of my hitherto catproofed enclosure - he took up residence in my neighbour's garage, and I put food out for him outside the enclosure, gradually moving it nearer the house - once I had got him eating inside the enclosure I tried shutting the gate, but that totally panicked him - after that I always left him free to go and eventually he decided he would prefer to stay, climbing into and out of the enclosure as he chose - initially he slept in an outdoor kennel in the enclosure but started to come through the catflap - throughout I ignored him totally, and let him set the pace

now he would spend all day and night welded to my side if he could

I am wondering if an outdoor kennel would be a good idea for your 'project' too? Mr Snugs is the one I have - but neutering has to be the first priority

I am quite jealous in a way - it's very rewarding bringing a cat in from the cold