Refusal of adoption of indoor cats

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Animal lover
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Refusal of adoption of indoor cats

Post by Animal lover » Thu Mar 12, 2015 12:08 am

I visited a local animal sanctuary today which left me feeling terrible.

I have had to say goodbye to my beloved cats who were Brother and Sister. I rescued them after they were found at barely a week old by some local boys in 1994. The boys found them on some unused allotments and chased away the Mother. The boys were reported to me by a neighbour when she saw the boys kick a box around with the kittens inside and then throwing them around by their tails. I rescued them and with much love and care, and feeding them by a syringe every two hours, they grew and became much beloved members of my family. My gorgeous boy I had to say goodbye to just after their 17th Birthday. Then on 17th Jan 2014 I had to say goodbye to my beautiful girl who was 19yrs 5mths old. They had lived all of their lives with me as indoor cats.

After a lot of thought, I had decided to look for another couple of cats to give a loving home to. I visited my local animal sanctuary. Once the staff heard me say 'Indoor cats' I was firmly told that I would not get any cats from there. I asked to see the Manager who basically said 'As wild animals they need to go outside. By not letting them go outside you are causing them to have behavioural issues, you are being cruel, you are a bad owner'. How dare they! I have supported them for over 20 years, I am an active animal rights campaigner, have had many different animals all of my life (40 years), hand raised and released wild animals, trained and socialised animals, have had many interactions with different charities and rehoming campaigns, etc. Yet, because I had my cats and would have any future cats as indoor cats, that makes me a bad owner!!

I kept my cats as indoor cats as I did not want to risk any harm to them - getting run over, abused, shot, poisoned, stolen, etc., and also as I did not want my cats to cause any harm to birds or other wildlife. The whole point of being a responsible pet owner is ensuring the welfare and safety of your animals. Allowing cats to go outside is a personal choice. I knew that by having them as indoor cats that they would need scratching posts, extra playtime, etc., to give them the exercise and stimulation they needed. I more than happily did all of those things as I loved them dearly. Both of my cats were very happy and healthy. My vets were more than happy for them to be indoor cats and so were the welfare officers who visited me when I rescued them. Since coming home from the sanctuary I have asked other cat owners I personally know, vets and animal behaviourists I know if they thought my cats had any behavioural issues or if I had been a bad owner in any way. They ALL said NO to both questions.

So why do animal sanctuaries and rescue and adoption centres think that having indoor cats is cruel? I can understand not wanting adult cats who are used to going out, to be rehomed as indoor cats as that would cause distress to those cats. But, the same cannot be said for kittens as they have never gone out and would not know the difference. I know many people, including my Sister, who have outdoor cats and who have had a cat run over, or go missing, or be found after someone abused them. I have seen cases of outdoor cats who have been shot with guns or cross-bows or been poisoned.

I know that I did the right thing by keeping my cats indoors. I also know people who have rehomed adult outdoor cats and then had them as indoor cats, and those cats are perfectly happy and healthy, and do not even try to go outside. In my view having your cats as outdoors or indoors is a personal choice. To stop people adopting cats as they will be kept indoors is to call those owners cruel and bad owners when they are not. It is stopping cats from having loving homes. A person being allowed to adopt a cat should be based on how that person treats the cat, not on whether or not the cat goes outside. How many people abuse or neglect cats that go outdoors? Yet, just because their cats go outside makes them a better loving owner than me?!

I think these outdated policies should be changed. Do you have adopted cats as indoor cats? Do they have any behavioural issues?

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Re: Refusal of adoption of indoor cats

Post by Lilith » Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:00 am

Sounds like these guys are living in the 1950s!

In an ideal world, yes, sure, where cats can roam to their hearts' content in grassy fields etc etc...

Only this isn't an ideal world. Even the grassy fields (for those cats lucky enough to access them) may be peopled by farmers with shotguns (I knew someone living in rural Wales where the farmers hated cats and the local wildlife lovers disliked cats too, because the cats hunted the slow worms - as a reptile lover myself I wouldn't like my cats to do this.) I once spent a week in Norfolk in 1976, in a rectory really deep in the country. It was like going back a hundred years! The 'main road' was so quiet that a car on it was an event. My hosts' cat, Millie, had acres of field and forest, as well as a huge garden to roam in; you'd have thought her the luckiest cat in the world. Shortly after my visit, poor Millie was run over and killed.

I live in an inner city area and my two eldest cats grew up on the street, basically feral. My younger cat (the dreaded Molly lol) is a livewire. Nowadays my small yard is secured and they none of them go out unsupervised, and in this weather not at all, though we live in hopes of the spring. They haven't been out for months. They haven't even asked to. I don't think this has damaged them psychologically, though I might get a tad frazzled when Moll does her poltergeist impressions at 5am, but every young cat does that.

I would hate for my cats to roam; there are just too many hazards. I daydream about a country house with a large garden for them (I even put down astroturf in the yard so that they could feel 'grass' under their paws) but daydreams are as far as I'll get. In this day and age, in this built up area, I definitely agree with you that it's best to keep them under your eye. There are lots of cats who live in apartments and are quite content.

I wouldn't let that one shelter put you off in your search. Perhaps you could ask your vet to vouch for you when you contact future organisations but I think the people you spoke to were being pretty extreme. Sounds like you can provide a good home and you've nothing to fear. You can post on here for a start, offering a home in your area.

Very sorry to hear about your losing your two previous cats, and hope you'll soon be welcoming the next generation. Good luck in your search :)

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Re: Refusal of adoption of indoor cats

Post by bobbys girl » Thu Mar 12, 2015 9:25 am

My OH once wanted a rescue dog. He applied to the local, widely respected, animal charity and they came out for a home visit. He was turned down because he lived on a main road (the A34 was, literally, on his doorstep!) He was never intending to let the dog out on the streets. Strange too was the fact that it was deemed too dangerous for a dog, but quite acceptable for him to have his young children staying with him!

In the end he bought a dog from a newspaper ad, something he didn't want to do, but he was left with no choice. The dog he got was our lovely Lurcher, Katie. She was from 'working stock' and we felt like we rescued her from a very doubtful future. The really funny thing is at the time my OH also had a house rabbit - Primrose, an ENORMOUS Lop-ear. I can't see ANY animal charity rehoming a Lurcher with a rabbit! :shock: Katie tried it on, Prim beat her up and they became best of friends. :lol:

You mentioned talking to your vet about this? Our local vets sometimes, sadly, get animals dumped on their doorstep. They try to rehome them themselves. We got Gracie from them - she had been found wandering and no one claimed her. Could you ask your vet if they could help? I know it is probably easier in the country where everyone knows you. (My townie sister finds it nosey and intrusive, but I love knowing all my neighbours)

I do wish you all the best. You sound like someone who could give a much needed loving home to a kitty or two. Keep in touch.

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Re: Refusal of adoption of indoor cats

Post by Hazel » Thu Mar 12, 2015 7:49 pm

Don't worry, a lot of people think cats shouldn't be kept indoors and a lot of people have happy indoor cats. Why don't you try a few more rescue centres. You could also consider adopting an old cat who might wander less or who has previously been a house cat, or a special needs cat (eg blind or deaf), these are more likely to be rehomed as house cats. I often think of the poor cats who are in rescue for years (black cats or shy cats often get overlooked), they would be better kept in a house than in a 10x10 enclosure.
If you can't still find any try the breed rescues (there is a list on catchat), they may have cats who have been previously kept as house cats.
Good luck, don't give up, there's a cat out there waiting for you to rescue them.

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Re: Refusal of adoption of indoor cats

Post by Hunnybunny » Fri Mar 13, 2015 12:05 pm

As a rescue we will would never home fit and healthy cats with no need for a restricted lifestyle to live their entire lives cooped up inside. Its a straight welfare issue and rescues are here to ensure the cats welfare. I frown on any rescue that would home cats as indoor only assuming that turnover was more import than welfare.

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Re: Refusal of adoption of indoor cats

Post by Cussypat1974 » Fri Mar 13, 2015 2:21 pm

When I assess a new home, I assess the compatibility. Some cats are great indoor, but others are not. I try to be a matchmaker. Some cats need indoor homes. some cats cannot be let out due to traffic etc.
You have to match the right person to the cat.

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Re: Refusal of adoption of indoor cats

Post by Cat Rescue UK » Fri Mar 13, 2015 2:59 pm

Well respected Nottinghamshire charity with homes needed for indoor only
http://www.animalaccident.org.uk/catego ... for-homes/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

there are MANY more charities which have cats that NEED to be indoor (i.e disabled cats etc)

You may not find any near you so be prepared to travel :)

Good luck

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Re: Refusal of adoption of indoor cats

Post by Hazel » Fri Mar 13, 2015 9:14 pm

Aw they look lovely! I wish I could adopt them all!

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Re: Refusal of adoption of indoor cats

Post by Animal lover » Sat Mar 14, 2015 12:09 am

Thank you for the replies.

I know that I did the right thing by keeping my cats as indoor cats. Any cats that I have in the future will also be indoor cats. Yesterday I was told about some kittens that have just been born, but I am going to continue looking to adopt from a sanctuary or rescue centre first, as even though I have always had animals, I do not agree with the 'Pet trade'.

I do not understand why people, like Hunnybunny, seem to think that by not allowing your cat to go out, your cat's welfare needs are not met? I do not mean this personally, I do find a lot of people just 'look straight ahead' or they think that as things have been 'done a certain way for so long', that means it is the best way. To fully be aware of and campaign for animal and environmental rights and welfare, I strongly believe that you have to see the 'whole picture'. Which is something that I find is lacking when people insist that cats should go outside. The Sanctuary Manager dismissed me straight away when he knew my cats would be indoor cats. I was never asked about my circumstances, previous experience, etc. It should be as Cussypat1974 said - every home should be assessed individually. I have had animals all my life, dogs, cats, rats, hamsters, rabbits, ducks, ferrets, many different species of fish and birds. Animals mean everything to me. I know how to groom and clip animals, I also know animal socialising, behaviour and training. I have trained and socialised animals for people. I deal with many animal charities nationally and internationally. I have hand reared and rehabilitated wild animals and successfully released them back to the wild. I can give animals first aid, injections, and much more. When I told the Manager this, you could see the shock on his face. Yet, he kept giving the same reason why he did not agree with having indoor cats, although when given reasons for them not going out, he kept contradicting himself.

Cats are domesticated, not wild. Cats have altered their behaviour in order to live with us, the meow for example. Cats naturally only meow as kittens, they have learned that by meowing at us, they get something, so now they meow as adults. People say cats need to go out in order to behave naturally. Yet, dogs and other animals are not allowed to roam. People keep small mammals, reptiles, etc., in small cages and tanks which mean that those animals cannot behave naturally. In shop brought hutches rabbits cannot even stand up which is something they do naturally in the wild all the time. People deny the vast majority of animals the ability to live as their innate natural behaviour should be - territory, exercise, family groups, stimulation, etc. Indoor cats have the same behaviour as outdoor cats and use it just as much. I have found that people who choose to have indoor cats make that decision fully aware of giving the cat plenty of stimulation and exercise. By being indoors they are not 'cooped' up. They have full roam of their home, (with me they have a three bedroom house), they have climbing and scratching posts, areas they can go for personal time, etc. Outdoor cats get let out and that is it. It does not mean they are investigating, running, exercising, etc. Indoor cats get much more stimulation, exercise and attention. Some European countries have had indoor cats as a norm for over fifty years. The average life span for indoor cats can be double that of outdoor cats.
Outdoor cats actually have a high level of stress. Cats naturally have solitary territories and with such a high cat population, this means that territories overlap with some being shared by several cats. This can cause psychological, physical, and behavioural problems for them. Indoor cats do not have this stress. The vast majority of indoor cats (at least that I know) are taken on in multiples of the same family at the same time, so have that continous bond and continuos company of their own kind, whereas the majority of outdoor cats are taken on as single cats from different families and at different times, which again causes stress to those cats.
I clearly understand that to take an adult cat that loves to go outside, and then to try to make that cat stay indoors will cause that cat stress. In those instances, the cat should have outside access. You can still protect them by having an outside enclosure which is what a lot of people do. Some adult cats that have gone outside can easily adapt to being an indoor cat. I have seen a 9 year old rescue cat do just that, even when they can clearly go outside, they have no interest in doing so. Kittens can be adopted as indoor cats. Neutering takes place around six months old and a lot of people keep them indoors until then. With no experience of the outside world, they will not know any difference. Just as hamsters, lizards, etc., know no difference. In most sanctuaries and rescue centres, cat blocks do not have outside access for cats, so those cats are living as indoor cats. Just as Cussypat1974 says each cat should be assessed for their preference. If they do not pine or scratch to go outside, then they would be perfectly happy as indoor cats. For organisations to insist on the cats being outside only, why do they not allow the cats in their care to have outside access?
Outdoors you also have cats fighting, the spread of disease, the population increasing, being run over, stolen, abused, shot, poisoned, etc. With the increasing cat population, houses being built, increased traffic, etc., these dangers increase and so does the probability of them happening to your cat. You have the health issue of cats using gardens, parks, etc., for their toilet which is a health hazard, unlike dogs which owners have to clear up after, cats mess is left.
Pet cats are not native to this country and have no natural predators. Due to the high cat population and people not neutering, our own native cat species are being wiped out. The Scottish Wildcat is the only native cat species left in the UK and it lives in remote parts of Scotland. Where there has been interbreeding, true Scottish Wildcats are rare and as they are endangered, when they are found, they are taken to special areas to ensure they do not interbreed.
As we feed our cats, the majority of kills are not eaten. The instinct is still there, so that is why cats hunt and kill, just as dogs will chase you when you run. The cat population in this country is decimating the bird and mammal populations. Over 30% of bird deaths in the UK are due to cats, the percentage is much higher for deaths of mammals, (birds make up 20% of a cats prey), and each year the figures increase. As those figures increase, the number of birds and mammals becoming extinct or endangered rise. The same is happening in every cat country. Every year cats are responsible for the deaths of many billions of birds and mammals in the UK alone. Some countries have already said 'Enough'. In parts of Australia, all cats have to be registered and neutered. When your cat passes away, it is illegal to have another one. The stray and feral cats in those areas are to be 'Eradicated'. Some states in America have already declared by law the neutering, etc., of cats. Other states and countries are to follow.
It is not a case of 'If' the UK follows Australia, it is a case of 'When'. It is already on the agenda for many charities, organisations, etc., here and Internationally (as we are part of the EU). Now by International law native species have to be protected, native species that are extinct in their original countries have to be reintroduced. Non-native species have to be removed. Depending on the assessment of the impact of a non-native species, that species may be allowed to stay in it's invaded country. If all cats were indoor cats, this could be a possible reprieve for cats.
I personally do not want a future without domestic cats. I would rather have them registered, neutered, and kept as indoor cats. And have registered breeders that are allowed to breed a certain amount of cats each year for people to have as indoor cats. I would rather all stray and feral cats were neutered and those populations removed by natural causes of decrease. I do not want to see cats rounded up and 'Eradicated'. The law concerning cats, and any animal, and under the Animal Welfare Act, you have to ensure that they are not facing the possibility of harm or abuse. You also have to ensure they are not causing harm to people or other animals. There is an 'Understanding' regarding the hunting by cats. The Animal Welfare Act was introduced in 2006 and since then the cat population has increased dramatically. The death toll of birds and mammals are so high that they are now not accepted. If you have a cat, whether you choose to have them as indoor or outdoor cats, you have to be 100% responsible for that cat and for that cats welfare and happiness. You are also responsible for the impact that cat has on other people and animals, you are responsible for the protection and the survival of species of birds and mammals too. By allowing your cats to go out you cannot ensure your cats welfare and safety, nor the welfare and safety of other animals.

When you have any animal as a member of your family, in my opinion you have to be aware of the 'Big picture' of having that animal, what it means, the responsibility and what it entails. There are a few other points that I have not written, I think I have written enough lol. I will say that the above views are expressed by many, many organisations and animal behaviourists, conservationists, vets, nationally and internationally. If you want to find out more about the pro's of having indoor cats against outdoor cats, ask your vet, animal and wildlife charities, animal behaviourists, look on-line, etc. I also suggest that you ask someone if you can see their indoor cat, so you can see for yourself that there is no difference in their behaviour and that their welfare needs are being clearly met. So far out of all of the people I have spoken to, sites I have used, no one has given me a reason why cats should be outside which cannot be equalled out by what they get by being indoors, for example they stalk outside - they do that indoors too. Yet, I can give you many reasons why they should be indoors that people have no equal answer for.

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Re: Refusal of adoption of indoor cats

Post by Crewella » Sat Mar 14, 2015 12:58 am

This has always been a heated subject for debate around here. My personal view is that I think that healthy cats should have the option to go out and that people wanting indoor cats should look for cats that need to be kept indoors due to disability, poor health or temperament. However, there are plenty of people around that don't share that view, including some rescues, and in your place I'd just keep looking until you find the right cat at the right rescue. Every rescue is different - I was turned down by one years ago for what struck me as a very stupid reason (no catflap), but another rescue was fine about the same point.

I do take your point that a good indoor home is an improvement on a long stay in a pen. If you look at the situation from another angle, there are many cats out there that specifically need indoor homes for reasons that might also make them harder to find homes for - timid, deaf, older .... all sorts of reasons. A home like yours could be the answer to some poor cat's prayers .... everybody happy, win win situation. :)

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Re: Refusal of adoption of indoor cats

Post by bobbys girl » Sat Mar 14, 2015 10:00 am

Crewella wrote:I do take your point that a good indoor home is an improvement on a long stay in a pen. If you look at the situation from another angle, there are many cats out there that specifically need indoor homes for reasons that might also make them harder to find homes for - timid, deaf, older .... all sorts of reasons. A home like yours could be the answer to some poor cat's prayers .... everybody happy, win win situation. :)
What a sensible idea, but then I'd expect nothing else from you Helen. :)

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Re: Refusal of adoption of indoor cats

Post by Hunnybunny » Sat Mar 14, 2015 11:01 am

The stimulation of outside access can never be replicate din an indoor only environment and I'm sorry but outside access is a fundamental right and necessity for cats which is why there is no need for discussion if somebody comes to us wanting and 'indoor only cat'

We may believe cats are domesticated but they still have 100% of their natural instincts which is why they are survivors and can exist if left to their own devises. I use the word exist purposefully.

This debate is as fruitless unfortunately as it is decisive. Personally, I believe if you think that it is acceptable and your cat is happy living a confined live then you have little understanding of the true nature of cats and are putting your own needs for keeping them safe (usually unduly) over the welfare of the said cats.

Helen as always is the voice of reason and diplomacy and speaks with total eloquence and is completely right about homing cats that REQUIRE an indoor life.

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Re: Refusal of adoption of indoor cats

Post by Animal lover » Sun Mar 15, 2015 12:10 am

Quote from Hunnybunny's previous comment 'Personally, I believe if you think that it is acceptable and your cat is happy living a confined live then you have little understanding of the true nature of cats and are putting your own needs for keeping them safe (usually unduly) over the welfare of the said cats.'

I DO understand the true nature of cats. I KNOW animal behaviour, and I do socialising and training. I in NO way put my own needs before any of my animals. I have to say that when people try to say having cats indoors is wrong, that is the type of shortsighted and quite frankly ignorant comment they make. They try to say that people who have indoor cats do not know about cat behaviour, as if people who allow cats outside are more knowledgeable and have more experience in animal welfare. That is not the case.
I have never said that people who let their cats go out, do not care about or understand the welfare of their cats, yet you assume, very wrongly, that owners of indoor cats 'have little understanding' of cats. That is so far from the truth. You judge me on the basis that I have said my cats are indoor cats. You know nothing about me, my knowledge or experience. You have never seen my home and you have never seen my cats. My cats showed all of the exact same behaviour as outdoor cats. They were very happy and healthy. During my charity work, I have had many people who work for different animal organisations visit my home, and my animals. As I always put my animals first, I also asked people to visit and asked them for advice, make sure I was meeting my animals welfare needs, etc. I had a worker from West Oxford Animal Rescue who specialises in cats, come and visit my home and she was more than happy with the environment and my knowledge and understanding of cats. As a result, they asked if I could adopt more animals, and to foster as well. They were more than happy with how my cats developed and that all of their welfare needs were being surpassed. If I had 'little understanding' of cats and if I was not putting my animals welfare first or meeting their welfare needs, I do not think that my visitors would have been happy with what they saw or heard, neither would I have been asked to adopt or foster by different organisations. As Cussypat1974 said potential owners should be assessed as an individual and on the individual home they can offer.
By saying that being concerned about the safety of your cats is 'usually unduly' is uncompassionate as many, many people have had their beloved outdoor cats run over, go missing, shot, poisoned, etc. It also shows that you do not know the reality of how many cats are hurt and killed each year by such incidents. Unfortunately, I know of and have seen many such instances. To see a cat with pellet injuries, or in pain and sickness from poisoning, is heart wrenching, they are scenes that you will never forget. Yet, I would never even think those owners do not think of their cat's welfare. However, as my cats are not exposed to those dangers you say I do not think of the welfare of my cats. No animals 'require' an indoor life, if there was no intervention by people all animals would be living wild and free as nature intended. However, as people have intervened domesticated animals need loving and safe homes.
I know that cats can survive in the wild, I also know that they are a species that decided to live with us, and I know of the history of that species. I know of cats impact on wildlife, I know they are not a native species to the UK. I know that if they were a species whose instincts 'ruled' over them, they would not have been successfully domesticated. If cats were wild and lived on instinct alone, they would not come any where near people, neither would they willingly come indoors after going outside. Cats needs space and stimulation, by being indoors they are not denied those things and they are not 'confined', deciding to have any animal as a responsible owner is to consider every aspect of that animals welfare, a three bedroom house is not the same as a bedsit. In an ideal world all animals would have their fundamental rights, which would mean they would all be wild as nature intended. If you want to ensure cats have outside access due to it being a 'fundamental right', then you have to do that for all animals and you have to ensure that those animals will 'not' come to any harm. Fortunately, animal welfare has come a long way, but we have a long way to go to get to that stage. The Animal Welfare Bill was introduced after years of research, study, input by many organisations, DEFRA and experts in animal behaviour, zoology, etc. The law, DEFRA and The Animal Welfare Bill does not say that cats have to have access to outside space, simply as indoor cats are no different to outdoor cats. You are not changing their behaviour or causing them problems in any way. You have to make sure they have space, exercise and stimulation. My cats lived in my three bedroom house with access to all of my home, they were played with and exercised every day and had much more stimulation than they would have got by going outside. I do not want the UK to be like Australia and being an animal owner is about being responsible for all aspects of that animals life, not just their welfare, but also of the welfare of the people and animals they interact with.
I am asking for sanctuarys and rescue centres to accept that cats can be indoor cats whether they have a health condition or not. I am asking for the suitability of individual adult cats to be assessed for living indoors. I am asking that cat adoptions be assessed on the home that can be provided and not on whether or not they go outside. As yet, I have not heard of or seen any behavioural issues in indoor cats, whether they have always been indoors from kittens or been adopted as adult cats. A happy home depends on the love and care that cats get from their owners, not on whether or not cats go outside.

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Re: Refusal of adoption of indoor cats

Post by Crewella » Sun Mar 15, 2015 3:39 pm

I think we just have to agree to disagree.

There are many different kinds of rescues, many are small independent ones (like the one I volunteer for) that are run by small groups of volunteers who put a lot of their own time and money into taking on needy cats, looking after them and then finding them new homes. There is always a bond formed when you foster a cat, and I think it's only fair that the fosterer or rescue has a say in how the cat should be kept in the future and that they should not be dictated to by the wants of potential adoptees. In general, a rescue is more likely to have the cat's best interests at heart, even if you disagree with their conclusions.

As I said, just find another rescue that's not so bothered about indoor/outdoor cats, or find a cat that really needs to be indoor.

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Re: Refusal of adoption of indoor cats

Post by Animal lover » Sun Mar 15, 2015 9:29 pm

I have no problem in agreeing to disagree. I have always said that it is up to the individual to decide what is best for them and then to be matched with a suitable animal. Both the owners and the animals need to be right for each other.

I have helped many charities in rehoming campaigns, and have found and rehomed many animals myself, including cats. Some have gone to homes with outside access, some have gone as indoor cats. I always assess the home - the people, environment, time available, etc., then introduced them to, hopefully, the new member of their family. I have no problem with outside cats where the owners have looked at every part of the cats welfare, and the welfare of the other people and animals the cat could interect with, and then made informed decisions. I ensure the area is quiet, not on busy roads, not a lot of cats to overlap territories, some have had outside enclosures built on to the home so the cats can go in and out as they please, the ones that do roam free I always advise to use road safety collars and to put a few bells on them and to not let the cat out at the times when birds are more active, etc. Those that do go as indoor cats I always ensure that they go as a pair or more, they have different areas to go in the home, the homes are large (nothing less than descent size two bedroom flats where the cats have access to the whole home), they will not be left on their own for more than a few hours at a time, etc.

What I object to is the outright 'no' by people and centres. They should assess the individual homes for what those homes will provide. The 'whole' area of the cats welfare should be assessed, including the impact the cat will have on the people and animals they will interact with. The issue of the number of birds and mammals being killed by cats is a serious one, one that at the rate of the growing cat population and the growing number of kills they make is a pressing issue. It is one that cat owners have to address. I do not want to become like Australia. If people want to keep letting their cats roam free, then we will be like Australia sooner rather than later.
Times have changed and there have been big developments and improvements in animal and environmental knowledge, welfare and rights. As times have changed people have to be more opened minded and see the whole picture rather than just parts of it. I personally find it hard to understand why people can only see a certain part or point of an animals welfare and of the impact that animal has on it's environment and ecosystem.
I object to people who allow cats outside, saying that myself and other people who have indoor cats 'have little understanding' or knowledge of the nature of cats and do not care about the welfare of our cats. Those such comments are completely narrow minded and ignorant. People who have indoor cats are very knowledgeable and informed, so those such comments could not be further from the truth.
There are people who have degrees in animal behaviour, zoology, etc., are behaviourists, vets, work for research and study instutes, etc., and who specialise in cats and who say cats are better as indoor cats. To say such comments as mentioned above is to say that those people are wrong and have no clue what they are talking about.
To refuse a cat a home simply as they would be an indoor cat is also against the Animal Welfare Act, DEFRA, and the law. They all state that cats can be indoor cats. To say 'no' is to say that all the experts, organisations, etc., involved in those areas are wrong.
Times change and much has been learned about cats and their behaviour. All people who look after animals in whatever way, form bonds with those animals and the animals with them. Just because a place says 'no' to indoor cats, it does not mean that they give cats a better life, or that they have the 'cat's best interests at heart' more than you do, or that they have more knowledge or can provide better welfare than indoor homes. It just means that the cat will spend it's time differently, no worse - no better. The majority of sanctuaries and centres have cats that are housed in indoor spaces only, small spaces with very little stimulation and no outdoor access. The majority of cats show no signs of crying, distress, scratching at windows, etc., which in itself shows that cats have no problem being indoor cats. Sanctuaries, centres and people as a whole need to change with the times and with the new knowledge as it is learned.

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Re: Refusal of adoption of indoor cats

Post by Hunnybunny » Sun Mar 15, 2015 10:53 pm

There is simply no point in assessing an indoor only home if you don't have a cat with has the health issues that require it to live indoors it simply isn't going to reach the acceptable levels to keep an active and healthy cat stimulated like the outdoors.

I'm sorry I haven't got time to read the essays so just skimmed but there is mounting evidence that pretty much backs that cats actually enhance the wildlife as they naturally pick off the weak and old so maintaing a healthy wildlife population and humans are far more guilty of removing natural areas for birds and mammals to live and breed. UK and Australia is a ridiculous comparison and melodramatic to say the least due to the animal species, geography, climate and many other variables.

The best way to stop mammal and birds being impacted so heavily by cats is reducing the cat population which is way to high in the UK and the only way to do this is promote neutering and prevent the out of control breeding that is occurring at the moment.

Cats are massively un evolved in human terms and humans need to stop being so arrogant as to think that we can make them fit and conform to our vision of society.

I have no issue at all with people homing cats as indoor only that require for health reasons that lifestyle but I do have a massive issue with people that take healthy animals, often kittens and enforce a lifestyle which falls massively short of acceptable and more often than not lead to social and behavioural issues. It is simply selfish to expect an animal with the natural instincts of a cat to live a life of confinement because us a humans can't handle the possibility that something may happen to them in the big wide world. They're not children, you can't explain and rationalise to them why they are imprisoned. Cats live in the moment and I think as true cat lovers we should respect them for the animals that we apparently love so much..... AS CATS not creatures that we can protect from their natural instincts. The best way to protect them is to make sure you live in the correct area with the safest possible outdoor environment.

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Re: Refusal of adoption of indoor cats

Post by Animal lover » Mon Mar 16, 2015 12:32 am

To Hunnybunny:
Have you ever seen an indoor cat in the home it lives in? Have you ever seen mine? No. You keep saying the same things - stimulation, exercise, confinement, behavioural problems. Yet, you have no evidence to say that indoor cats get any less stimulation, etc., or that they show behavioural problems. I have given many points about the benefits of indoor life. I have never said people who have outside cats are wrong. Everything you say about stimulation, etc., indoor cats get. I think that you are just so set in things being a certain way that even if you did see 100 perfectly happy and healthy indoor cats showing all the normal behaviour of cats, you would still be saying the same thing.
What you say is contradictory - you talk of cats living a natural life, they do not, they are domesticated, not wild. You talk of confinement, how big are the spaces in most centres? Many outside cats only go as far as their own gardens, and then just lay there. Most species of animals that have been domesticated have much more confinement than indoor cats. Having indoor cats is not making them live the way people want them to, it is about sharing your life together. Again your point about 'making them do.....' is contradictory, by even so much as having them as pets we have made them do things which if they were wild they would not do.
The comments about cats taking the old and weak, yes they do to a certain degree. But, the number of fit and healthy birds and mammals they take is by far a much higher percentage. Cats are not native to this country, just like Australia and the USA. It has nothing to do with the climate, it has to do with an introduced non-native species. It is about ecology, ecosystems and the food chain. Old and weak birds and mammals have our own native species as predators.
You keep making comments which are very short sighted and show ignorance about how indoor cats are looked after. You are generalising and not seeing the whole picture. If cats were so profoundly affected by living indoors as you try to imply, they would not be allowed in our homes in the first place and neither would the law allow indoor cats and neither would animal specialists or organisations.

Not one person who has seen this thread has said they had an indoor cat which had behavioural problems. (Although now I have just said that, you will probably post loads of apparent examples). That speaks volumes. Out of all the sites, the people I have asked in person, etc., I have had three people say they had problems - one was a 7 yr cat, had an operation, had to stay in for six weeks, loved going out, cried to go out. The other two were older cats, one 10 yr and the other 12 yr, different owners, due to a change of circumstances they had to be rehomed, and the new homes were not a match. I would NEVER take an adult cat who clearly loved going out and try to make them stay in. That is not what I am saying. My cats were always indoor cats from when I rescued them at around one week old. I see no issue with cats living as indoor cats from being kittens. Adult cats are all different and should be assessed and treated as such. Some love staying in, some love going out. I know many adult cats that have been rehomed, privately or rescue, and are fine being indoor cats. You cannot generalise.

Every one who knows me, knows how educated, knowledgable, and experienced I am with animals. They see how I look after my animals and how happy and healthy they are. You do not know me and have not seen my animals. So please stop saying I 'have little understanding', do not care about my cats welfare, etc. On all of your posts to my threads you have said such things. To me, to make such assumptions and generalisations is appalling. Your comments just prove my entire point on this subject. That people say 'no' based on short sightedness, that they are not up-to-date on animal care or behaviour and they do not see the whole picture of animal welfare.

I will agree to disagree with you. We may find that we agree on other things, but this.... I have never said you were wrong or you cared about your cat's welfare any less than I do. Please stop saying negative things about me and my cats, and also about indoor cat owners in general. Great animal welfare is about being open minded and about seeing the whole picture.

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Re: Refusal of adoption of indoor cats

Post by Cussypat1974 » Tue Mar 17, 2015 3:07 pm

As I said, it depends on the cat. They have the widest variety of personalities next to humans. Some cats are happy to be indoor only, others are utterly miserable.
I let the cats decide here. Minnie (who is very old) is staying in a lot lately. Holmsey is very outdoorsy but is not well so is locked in. If they are sick I keep them under observation.
My Touchlamp is epileptic and I wanted to train him as indoor only, but he was utterly miserable and kept escaping. so I devised a new routine, and he goes out.
I also saw a marked improvement in health once everyone was allowed out after I moved house to the country. But that is probably due to high numbers of cats.

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Re: Refusal of adoption of indoor cats

Post by Cussypat1974 » Tue Mar 17, 2015 3:09 pm

If the cat is happy indoors, it is safer for sure, but is also certainly missing out on life. Same as any human really! Not sure why people are getting so worked up about this issue to be honest......

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