Lila's squamous cell carcinoma journey..

[faerieevenstar]

I'm sorry, I've never posted in the forums before, even though CatChat is actually where I found my rescue cat in the first place, so I feel a bit bad signing up here in a panic, but I needed to be with Cat People for a bit, if that makes sense?

My cat, Lila, is only seven years old, a rescue, and has been a very nervous cat her whole life, and we've been working hard to bring her out of her shell. We've made real progress, but I wanted to eventually see her letting my friends stroke her (she hardly even sits on my husband, let alone someone from outside the house).

Yesterday we found out that the tiny lump I discovered on her jaw a fortnight ago, is actually squamous cell carcinoma. I am distraught. With the positioning of it right in the "hinge" of her jaw, the vet thinks it would be impossible to excise with a safe margin without actually removing her jaw entirely, and chemotherapy wouldn't be a viable option either.

He offered a referral to a specialist oncologist vet, but it will be very expensive (she's not insured) and the result will most likely be the same even with a specialist. I'm told even when the tumours are removed, in 90% of the case the tumours return anyway

Right now, she's happy and playful, and normal. It's not effecting her life at all really, she just has a sore mouth (we have Metacam for that) and isn't eating much... I can't believe my happy healthy looking cat has cancer.

Does anyone know how long she could live with the tumour as it is? It's probably, roughly the size of a chickpea, guessing from what I can feel on the outside (it upsets her to open her mouth to look).

We feel it would probably be cruel to put her through treatments that won't actually save her, and will just prolong the suffering, as in her case she is a very anxious cat, and has hardly spent a day in her life away from us, and is terrified of the vet. (I'm agoraphobic so I'm with Lila nearly 24/7..)

I feel so helpless and I don't want to watch her fade away. When it comes time, we will do what needs to be done, but I hurt so much... I've never cried so much. It might seem silly but she's my world and my best friend.

Can anyone just say.. anything.. of comfort? Any advice that's practical is good too. I'm hoping we still have some time to be together yet- she was running around and playing like a kitten last night! She's too young for this. Even my vet was surprised- he really didn't think the biopsy would give this result...


EDITED to change title of thread

[Lilith]

Hi there, and very sorry to hear about Lila.

Having nursed a few terminally ill cats, I do agree that, especially for a nervous girl like Lila, it's better to give the cat as much peace as possible. In fact I was once told by a vet (re kidney problems) that dialysis was more for the benefit of the owner than the cat! The only intervention I would feel very strongly about would be pain relief - that at all costs - and, if the cat had no quality of life, was stressed/miserable with no prospect of relief in this life, then, euthanasia. Having said that, in a case like this, I do feel you need to liaise closely with your vet - but a good vet will be understanding of you and Lila. This is just my personal opinion of course. I once had a very shy cat with mouth cancer and the vet told me that, like Lila, they could perform invasive surgery but that they'd rather not.

I'm not a vet so I can't give you any estimate on how long Lila has got, but I do hope that you both have some time together yet. Right at the moment she sounds pretty good - which must make it more of a shock to have this verdict on her. It's good that you're with her 24/7 because you'll have the best opportunity to pick up on any change in her.

Sorry I can't be of any more help than this and really sorry to hear of your news. Please give Lila a kiss from me. You have given her a lovely life so far and by the sound of it she couldn't have any better love and care, she is safe with you and that counts for a lot. Again, do hope you have as long as possible together despite this devastating news x

[mr_frisky]

Hi

I know a human squamous cell carcinoma doesn't have much of a risk of spreading (although there is some). After looking up the cat one they say it can spread quickly, so really the tumour should be removed.

[crazy cat lady]

Hi,

So sorry to hear about Lila. Our cat was rescued from a home and we've had him 15 years now. He stopped eating and was unwell at the end of Sept 2014, we were then told that the test results and x-rays confirmed that he has cancer, so I know how awful it is to be told this, my partner and I were absolutely devastated.

However, fortunately he is still with us and we didn't think that he would make it till the end of October, so we are very fortunate that he is still here. Apart from the fact he is old and skinny thanks to steroid injections you wouldn't think anything was wrong with him. I think the main thing is that they are not in any pain and that they are comfortable and have quality of life. My thoughts are with you and I really hope that you get to have lots more time with her. xx

[Willowgill]

I'm so sorry you've had this dreadful news - there is nothing worse than feeling so utterly helpless and knowing it is only a matter of time before you have to make that awful decision. I too have nursed several cats and 2 dogs through terminal illness so know what you are going through - we lost our latest cat in Nov. I can only second what has been said already that pain relief and quality of life are the key things. At the moment it sounds like Lila is fairly happy although they are very good at hiding pain so the Metacam will help. My greatest friend Harry had another 2 years after his initial death sentence and it was only in the last couple of months when he started to go downhill. I hope Lila has lots of quality time left with you - treasure every minute of it. Also take lots of video and photos - something I bitterly regretted with H as I only have one old bit of film as my phone with all the last photos on broke and everything was wiped When the time comes you will know and awful as it is it's the last act of kindness we can do for our beloved pets and does offer some comfort and relief that you have given them every bit of love in the time you've been together.

[JulieandBarney]

Hello there..

I feel for you so much, it is so difficult, we lost our boy to oral cancer over a year ago, when we had to have him put to sleep before he became any worse, it was heartbreaking....you will know yourself the right thing to do and when the time is right, you sound like a lovely, caring person and all our thoughts are with you tonight.....xx

[booktigger]

Hiya, I've also lost a cat to oral SCC, he had no symptoms, it was picked up when we took bloods (he also had hyper -t) and I noticed blood round his mouth. He was still eating the day I lost him. I think your doing the right thing, not operating, oral SCC doesn't have a good prognosis and with her temperament it wouldn't be fair. Metacam has two uses, it doesn't just help pain, it's also a Cox inhibitor so can slow growth of some tumours.

Good luck, take lots of pictures and spoil her rotten so you both enjoy what time you have left

[JulieandBarney]

Hiya, I've also lost a cat to oral SCC, he had no symptoms, it was picked up when we took bloods (he also had hyper -t) and I noticed blood round his mouth. He was still eating the day I lost him. I think your doing the right thing, not operating, oral SCC doesn't have a good prognosis and with her temperament it wouldn't be fair. Metacam has two uses, it doesn't just help pain, it's also a Cox inhibitor so can slow growth of some tumours.

Good luck, take lots of pictures and spoil her rotten so you both enjoy what time you have left

Booktigger is so right on this....our cat was acting fine, other than dropping his food and being a 'messy eater' ...in every other sense he looked in perfect health.....it devastated us to be told that he had an inoperable tumour on his tongue.....we had no idea. it's an awful cancer for cats and as Booktigger rightly says oral cancer does not have a good prognosis for cats.....I can only second the words that 'take many pictures' and 'spoil her rotten' until you need to make that decision for her...it is what we did ........we all understand......xx

[MarkB]

Hi, My Alice had cancer on her face. I am sure it was Squamous cell. I adopted her from Cats Protection when I fostered her after the surgery. The vet said it could come back, but it never did. We had 6 good years (she was already 10+ when I adopted her. She died from something totally unrelated to the cancer

Sorry I don't have any other advice, but hope something can be done.

This was Alice recovering http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn22 ... dcd106.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[faerieevenstar]

Thank you so much, you lovely people

I'm talking with my vet tomorrow, he wanted to give us a few days to think everything over and let it sink in before we chatted again, and I think he will liaise closely with us now. They are a wonderful surgery so I have every faith in them.

I only found Lila's lump because she's always been a fan of cheek scruff fusses, and she cried when I touched her a fortnight ago so I had a look, and she was obviously in agony, I got her to the vet asap then. I'm pretty sure I spotted it very quickly (though you can never be sure) She has no teeth left bar 3 canines and a couple of the tiny incisors at the front (we lovingly call those tiny ones the "mouse nippers" as she uses them to pick up her toy mice and carry them around!!) so I was immediately concerned, as I'd normally assume a tooth abscess, but I knew she had none

I am comforted to know some of you have experienced cats living a long life with SCC. I think the Metacam is helping her pain, she only seems uncomfortable if she knocks her face by mistake, or when I open her mouth for the medicine itself. She's still grooming, eating, drinking and using her litter tray. She's a bit put off food, but I actually think that's mostly because she's worked out that the medicine comes after the food (clever little devil!)

I have many, many photos of her already, but I will take more. I'm so daft I even made her her own Facebook page and the only video I ever uploaded to Youtube was her! (it's an awful quality one, but she used to hide under the sofa, and squeeze out when we shook the treats and it was like the sofa "gave birth" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQ45hWZ4JQI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

I'm an artist, so I also plan to paint her portrait as some catharsis when she's gone. I did that with my childhood cat, Tiggy, and it really helped me to grieve.

Is there anything I should ask my vet tomorrow, do you think? I was wondering if there is another method of pain relief as she hates having her mouth opened now, obviously, and I don't like that it's putting her off food as she doesn't eat a lot anyway. I'd be happy to inject her if the vet would show me how to do it safely tbh, as I think that may be less traumatic...

It's all sunk in my brain a lot more now. I'm still upset, but trying to be practical as we hopefully have a lot more time left together yet

Here she is curled up on my knee on Tuesday after we got the results... she was worried about me because I was sad, bless her. http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c287/ ... dnzz44.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Lilith]

Hi again, does Lila like tuna? I had an old tomcat with arthritis and the vet prescribed metacam. As he'd been a feral and didn't take kindly to too much interference (ears yes, mouth no) I tasted a tiny drop before I even tried to syringe it down him. Eww! There was no way he was going to accept a daily dose of this stuff neat - but he did like tuna.

For months after that, every morning my Finn would present himself in the kitchen - 'where's my tuna then?' A dessertspoonful of tuna, a squirt of metacam well mixed in - and he usually finished it!

Fingers and paws crossed for you and Lila, my snakes have got their tails crossed too. All very very best wishes to you both x

[faerieevenstar]

She's not a tuna fan, but she dos adore haddock (especially chip shop haddock) I actually cooked her a haddock fishfinger for dinner last night (breadcrumbs removed!) It's the only food she cannot contain herself when it's around- if we're eating it, she begs, and she NEVER begs for food! If it doesn't taint the taste too much, perhaps I can mix the Metacam into that. I wouldn't think she'd polish off any other food to get the full dose, but haddock, oh yes!! I keep saying someone should make an entirely gravy complete cat food as she loves to eat just the gravy off wet food, and leave th chunks.

[Willowgill]

I would think whatever she loves try a drop of metacam in it - even if she's just licking the gravy at least it's going in. I used to cook a bit of fish or chicken in milk for Harry when his appetite started to go - he suddenly developed a liking for smoked mackerel too - at that stage the joy of seeing him eat anything outweighed what was bad for him. I think you need to be guided by the vet but don't be afraid to ask for a second opinion if you feel you need one.

[Kay]

quite a lot of cats like the taste of Metacam, even though to us it smells foul

I dosed Trigger every day with it for the last two months of his life by mixing it with Gourmet pates, and he ate up every scrap of it with relish

[bobbys girl]

I keep saying someone should make an entirely gravy complete cat food as she loves to eat just the gravy off wet food, and leave th chunks.

We've been saying that for years! Works a treat for Tommy's meds, but you can't fool Willow. We have to disguise her Metacam in a little icecream! She loves anything like that and licks the bowl clean.

[Crewella]

I'm so sorry to hear this - I feel for you. We lost our Alpha at 12 to oral cancer (fibrosarcoma) a few years back. We'd just got her through losing her second eye to glaucoma and adapting to being completely blind when they found a lump in her upper jaw during a routine dental .... after all she'd been through it felt like a real kick in the guts.

Fibrosarcoma is different from squamous cell carcinoma, so I can't advise on whether or not to deal with the lump - we did have it cut down, twice, once as part of the original diagnosis and once again about 3 months later. I don't regret doing that, due to the position it was relatively simple and made it easier for her to eat, and she was well used to vet visits, but it did only gain us a few months and a last summer for her in the garden. Neither the vet nor I thought it was worth putting her through anything else.

Your vet sounds like a decent vet - the best advice I can give you is go with your vet. I know mine would only try for something if he really felt it would help, and by the sounds of it yours is the same. Having had really rubbish vets in the past, I can't tell you how valuable a thing that is to have. Who knows how long you have with her, the best you can do is love her and keep her comfortable as best you can.

I've had several cats on Metacam for various reasons, and can usually find something they like to mix it with - and has been said it's much better for them with or after food.

It's a tough time. (((hugs)))

[Cussypat1974]

I am so sorry about your bad news. I think the same as others here..... Be guided by your vet (who seems a good one) and by Laila herself. do be aware that cats hide pain and disco fort very very well however..... Pain relief is crucial here to do the right thing by her.
Given the prognosis and her temperament, I would not go down the route of treatment either, and would focus on giving her the very best life has to offer while she can still enjoy it. When the time comes, help her go with e dignity that every cat ðeserves.

I have had cats with cancer, but never untreatable cancer. One 28 year old had bladder cancer (not a painful one) and he was PTS after having a series of mini-strokes (possibly cancer related but who knows, he was 28 after all). others have had different types of cancer but have been successfully treated. I know how scary the diagnosis is, and I know how awful it is to have to accept that they are terminally ill. My heart goes out to you.

You have given the perfect home to a scared and vulnerable little cat when she needed it. Be proud of that. Your heart will break for your trouble...... But you have made a fabulous difference to her life, even if it is to be shortened by something out of the control of medical science. Hugs to you both. Xxxxx

[lilynmitz]

I'm so sorry for what you're going through. I've lost two cats to cancer, one only 7 years old (and the light of my life) and another at 12. Both were very late diagnoses as both cats seemed well - slight loss of appetite and slowing down, but no other obvious symptoms. (And I'm nursing another geriatric, Lily, who we know is on borrowed time.)

In both cases had I known about the cancer sooner, I would not have sought treatment. I looked them up on line, and heard someone elses's account of what they went through, and it was just awful. The cats would have had no idea why we were doing these traumatising things to them, they would gain no comfort or reassurance that humans might from the knowledge that it was for their own good, and this would be doubly hard for Lila, being such an anxious cat. If there's no real hope of improved quality of life, I took the view that it's not kind to put them through this, just so we can keep them with us a few months, or weeks, longer. I'm a firm believer in palliative care when it gets to this stage. My poor Lily has been through quite a few operations for various medical conditions, but in each case there was a very positive prognosis, and she's still with us years later, but when the prognosis is poor, I wouldn't have put her through it, and certainly not with an aggressive cancer, and I've also decided if she needs surgery again for any of the many medical conditions she keeps collecting, it's time to call it quits. I won't put her through another one.

In my view, surrounding Lila with love and giving good palliative care is the kindest thing you can do for her now, devastatingly hard as it is. You will know when she's had enough, and then you can offer her the kindest thing of all, a gentle and dignified passing.

I really do feel for you, it seems so cruel when she's so young and has been so much, but you have given her a wonderful life that she wouldn't otherwise have had, and it was her good fortune to end up with someone as kind as you to spend her short life with.

[faerieevenstar]

Ok, I've had a long phone conversation with my vet, he is going to see Lila on 30th March and assess if it has progressed at all. We are sticking with Metacam, but he said to try adding it to her fish fingers (and he also said to feed her fish fingers right now is FINE!!) so I don't have to force her mouth open- you were all right on that one, so I will try that with today's dose

I asked about if there was any benefit to removing the lump without a significant margin, ie knowing it would return but purely for her comfort. apparently they do do this kind of surgery, but he's not sure about her because of it's placement in the hinge of her jaw (it really is a delicate area on cats) but if I would like another vet at the surgery to look, he said that's ok too. I'm not sure we _should_ do this. but I'm considering all the options, and we may discuss it at the end of March.

We are on the same page re suffering and euthanasia, which is good, and he said if I'm concerned about whether or not she is in distress and suffering, to ask for advice at any time, but it's clear she's not suffering at all right now. If anything, she's been playing more than ever lately. She keeps sitting looking at the shelf where we keep her fishing rod toys

He couldn't give me a time frame, it really is something that you cannot predict, because they sometimes grow very slowly, and sometimes shoot up in a space of weeks, but right now, it seems quite settled (it's one reason we are checking it at the end of March to see if it has grown much) I'm not surprised he couldn't give a time scale, and I apologised for putting him on the spot!

He did also say there is always a chance that the histopath was wrong and it *looked* like SCC but isn't... Here's hoping!!

All in all, he was very comforting and I'm glad we talked. He's a lovely man. I think for now, we've got this. Pain is managed and she's happy. Deep breaths!

I promised Lila on the day we brought her home from the shelter that she would never have to suffer again, and I plan to keep that promise to the very end. Thanks for your ongoing support, and Lila is actually on my knee purring right now, so I think she thanks you all as well x

[Cussypat1974]

This brought a tear to my eye........
I was going to suggest a second lab test, but your vet beat me to it! You have a GREAT vet..... Hang on to him!
Hugs to you all once again, including the vet this time! laila could not be in better hands. Xxxxx

[Crewella]

Yep, you're lucky to have your vet, and Lila's lucky to have you. That all sounds pretty positive. Fusses to Lila, and keep us posted. All paws here crossed for her. xx

[faerieevenstar]

WIN! Lila ate the fish finger with Metacam on and is NONE THE WISER! *evil cackle* she is now suspicious as I gave her a second, untainted fish finger, and have not picked her up for medicine.... she's looking nervous waiting for the catch, bless her!

[Walesgang]

Well done!

It's always a relief to get meds down isn't it!?

[faerieevenstar]

It really is! It was making me sad seeing how upset she was taking the meds. She hates being "caught". She always has (I don't know if it's trauma from being rescued or what) and really only likes to be picked up when she asks, so that in itself is traumatic, let alone opening a sore mouth and squirting nasty stuff in! I've been working on the being picked up for years with no luck :\

Anyway, she's now made a sharp exit upstairs to sleep by a radiator before I chase her down with the meds I think. I think she reckons she got away without them today

If she can do this every day, I think I'd be happier with that, I didn't want her to get negative associations with me because of the meds.

[Lilith]

Hey - cool! Congrats Lila and congrats you!

A bit off topic but your username keeps reminding me of my Siamese Shashi, whose full name was 'Middlearth Moon' (Shashi also means 'moon') and who was the one with the wonky mouth. Or rather her mother, Arwen Evenstar. The plan was to call her 'Arwen' as her everyday name, but my ex, who is a great guy but whose sense of humour is worse than mine, went about calling her 'Arrr-wen'! in a broad Yorks accent. At that point I gave up and just called her 'Annie'. Lol.

Won't be long before Lila's asking for her fishfinger every day - it's so great when they'll accept meds in their favourite grub - really glad

[JacquiA]

[quote=I promised Lila on the day we brought her home from the shelter that she would never have to suffer again, and I plan to keep that promise to the very end. Thanks for your ongoing support, and Lila is actually on my knee purring right now, so I think she thanks you all as well x[/quote]

It sounds like Lila was one very lucky little girl on the day you found her .... hope things work out for you both x

[Cussypat1974]

Ah, wonderful for her AND for you! Giving meds can be just horrible for all concerned, and of course they don't understand why we are trying to POISON them eh? Well done you.

[faerieevenstar]

Really worrying about Lila I think she's been in pain today, and yesterday. She was looking at her dinner and looking hungry and wouldn't eat, like it hurt, and has been in an off mood all day. I'm so scared that if we're not managing her pain, then it's time. I don't want it to be time.

Seeing the vet on 30th... he can tell us what to do then, unless she's still seeming off in the next few days. I'm hoping she's just in a grump, but it's hard to judge a pets pain- they can't tell you. Maybe we can up her Metacam dosage.

I'm worried that this life isn't enjoyable for her any more. She hates having the medicine. We had such a nice, happy cuddle earlier, but what if she was just fussy because she felt bad and wanted comfort? This is so hard. The vet did say I could call for advice at any time, so maybe I will.

[Crewella]

Do call them, if only to put your mind at rest. Cats are very good at hiding when they're in pain, so if you think she might be, it's likely that she is - the vet will be able to advise. I know it's hard, but I also know you wouldn't want her to suffer. xx

[faerieevenstar]

Thanks. I do think I will ask about upping the Metacam, as she's just come bouncing in the room actually, about an hour after her meds were given and she is HAPPY and BRIGHT and herself again. I think she must have been hurting.

Perhaps if we got to twice a day it will manage it better, as she's only on the 3.5 kg dose once a day at the moment, and in the last week I have noticed her tumour has grown not a lot, but it's crept further along the front of her jaw and looks inflamed. Perhaps with twice a day she will be ok, but obviously this is only for as long as pain meds will manage it, when they stop managing it, that's our answer...

She's looking at me now and begging for Dreamies. <3