Hey guys, Milla is in heat so I could use some advice :)

[Joe_Danger]

I don't know if any of you remember but my vet suggested we don't spay her before her first heat cycle, old fashioned I know but I live in Europe, Macedonia and honestly finding a good vet here is difficult and this vet is amazing just a tad old fashioned.
We then decided, together with the vet to mate Milla with her pure bred white persian tom at least once since apparently it's safer/better for her to go through at least one litter before being spayed.

Milla's first heat was painless and a non issue, this was around March 11th. Now she is in heat again and boy is it bad this time, I'm not worried about me not getitng enough sleep I don't sleep much anyways so that's a non issue I'm worried about her not peeing, eating or drinking much these past 2 days, apparently she is on her 4th or 5th day of Estrus according to the vet. We would have mated her now but my vet is worried that due to the weather being too hot here and in the next two months and Milla being a long haired persian it might be best to postpone the mating until her next cycle, plus she says she would mature even more and deal with the pregnancy and kittening much better.

She gave her some pills to supposedly calm her down, said that these pills should only be administered ONCE in a cat's life and never again, as in during one cycle and in a really bad situation maybe twice, any further use of the pills will have negative side effects but as a breeder herself she guaranteed no negative side effects now.

Milla is acting weird around me, in fact the moment she hears my voice she acts...like she wants to mate, she doens't do this with anybody else in the house.

Any and all advice is welcome, as long as it's within our capabilities here.
I asked on another forum and well here's what I was told

WARNING OFFENSIVE:

From: 256colors | Posted: 7/15/2015 06:17:43 AM | Filter | Replies (1) | Message Detail | Quote
Whatever, kill yourself

Lesser third world breeder cat-enslaver scum

So you can imagine how stressful that was, especially since I adore my cat and she is such a happy and healthy, well loved and well taken care of cat.

here are some pics, I couldn't in-line them because the forums said it wasn't possible to determine the dimensions or some such
http://i.imgur.com/63D9Wpp.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://i.imgur.com/h1DaMZZ.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://i.imgur.com/18JarCa.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks in advance

I'm mostly worried about her not wanting to go pee, she did this last time too I had to put her in the litterbox myself or she'd hold it in, she doesn't go around the hosue or anything, in fact she won't leave my side.
Thank god I work from home

[Lilith]

Hi Joe, that poster on that other forum was completely out of order and I hope you reported them. I'm afraid there are a lot of these trolls and saying 'try to forget it' is all very well but it's a shock when you get gratuitous abuse like that. They're plain disgusting; they infest the AOL discussion sites as well; I call them the 'illiterate and intolerant' - well that is a polite version lol.

Well, so Milla's in the throes is she? I think the main thing is, never expect any rational behaviour from a cat in heat; all you can do is endure it. She just needs lots of love and company, which is what you're giving her. (I do like the pic of her perched on the fan - does she think it'll cool her ardour lol?)

I'm afraid I can't agree with your vet; as you say, it's an outdated theory, but having bred cats myself I can't preach. There's one danger though, that Milla will keep coming into heat constantly and literally wearing herself out. My first Siamese, who I intended to breed with, came into heat at 5 months (minimum breeding age 10 months) - and she never stopped after that! Like you I didn't mind the constant carrying-on (and Siamese are LOUD) but I hated to see her worn to a frazzle. It's also worrying when they go off their food. And of course she couldn't have been spayed, which some people would say was best for her and forget the breeding, because you can't spay a cat who's never out of heat...

Also, what are these pills the vet's prescribing? I personally don't agree with medication to 'calm her down' - it's a natural process. I know valium (diazepam) is sometimes prescribed for dogs and that can have very adverse long-term effects.

Poor Milla, and poor you too. All you can do is your best, which it sounds like you're doing already, and trying to tempt her with anything that she'll eat and making sure she gets some liquids...would she fancy a bit of stewed chicken in its own gravy?

Paws crossed she comes out of it soon and gives herself and you a rest. Good luck with her!

[Joe_Danger]

Thanks a lot
dunno what the pills are called, sorry I don't agree with many of the practices vets here do but I'm just one guy and fighting against the "system" would only alienate me further form every vet I go to, I can't afford that so I have to deal with some of this stuff.

Worst case scenario, she doesn't come out of heat, what can we do then?

[Lilith]

Ah. She goes on and on and on until she's mated. But do hope it won't come to that - my Siamese was an extreme case; Siamese often take things to extremes lol!

In the 80s, which was when I was breeding, there was a pill called 'Ovarid' which was supposed to prevent a cat coming into heat. It was later banned; there were too many side effects. I tried this with Jacinth (the Siamese) and although she did eventually have three litters, she had to be neutered because of hormonal problems; she was plucking her fur out, although this cleared up after neutering. Yes your hands are tied so to speak, when you have to go along with the vet's decision, but honestly I wouldn't want to give a cat anything like a tranquilliser or something to interfere with her hormones. Perhaps someone else on here might have an idea of what this medication is, or you could google it. You could always accept the pills and pretend she's taken them...Milla won't rat on you

All the very very best with her.

[Joe_Danger]

Thanks. and thanks for not chewing me out over the outdated practices I allow my beloved cat to undergo.

I don't know what this pill is but it IS a hormon suppressor of some sort I believe, it won't stop the heat but will ease it.
I always get hate from foreigners on forums over literally everything regarding life here, from our culture to medical stuff and people always expect ME to be some kind of revolutionary and fight against the system but I'm just an illustrator for children's books and a graphics designer, I'm not the type of guy who can make a change plus I don't think life here is bad at all in fact I love it.

I do get frustrated though when doctors resort to outdated practices, especially since information is widely available to everyone these days and you'd be hard pressed to find a family without at least one computer and smartphone or some such device, most families have a bunch as everywhere else in the world.

Well we're going to breed her once anyways so here's hoping that takes out out of heat long enough for her to be spayed.
I insisted on having her fixed at 4 months before she developed sexually and all but good but that only made it seem like I was undermining a vet who used to be or is a professor and all and it wouldn't have ended well had I kept pushing. The lady is very nice and approachable but old fashioned.
Better than my previous vet who did fix Anastasia at 4 months of age but then refused to administer proper care for her kidney failure when she got it years later and let her die without even administering sub-q fluids or anything ever Hell the douchebag didn't even want to have her checked out and have bloodwork done when I suspected she had CRF and made me out to be some paranoid person who reads the internet too much...turned out I was right.

[Lilith]

Nobody has the right to chew you out, especially the people who don't experience or understand the veterinary system you're living with - you're getting the best care for Milla that you can - and she looks a happy and healthy girl Ignore the keyboard warriors; they're idiots

Mind you it's much the same everywhere I think - many (not all!) vets and doctors cling to their professional mystique and don't care for the owner or patient to think for themselves. This is crazy; it's like they don't want us to grow up...but there it is.

Ah I mentioned tranquillisers, thinking of the dreaded valium, but just to set the record straight, there is a safe pet tranquilliser used in the UK called Zylkene which is organically based, on milk acids I understand, and well thought of. But Millla won't be needing tranquillisers - it is a natural process and I hope she comes through it soon and gives you some peace lol.

[Joe_Danger]

So far so good, I guess thanks to the pills she eats well ONLY if/when I give her wet food, but she gulps it down nice and good for now so that's good.
She also seems calmer, of course she still does her thing and the way she reacts to my voice and my voice only everyone seems to find hilarious lol

So I'm confused now, after this is over in a few days some places say it's going to be over for a few months and some say she will only take a week of being normal and then cycle again and become like this.

What should I expect? I assume if she goes back to this phase then breeding is the only way and if so the pills would have been for nothing

[Lilith]

Hi, it really does depend on the cat - there used to be a joke about Siamese going off heat just long enough to take a deep breath (in fact there was once a case of angry neighbours calling the police to a house with an 'abandoned baby' - needless to say it was a Siamese in heat...) Other breeds aren't quite as extreme, luckily.

Some cats are textbook cases, only coming into heat every three months or so; some are totally unpredictable. I hope for yours and Milla's sake that she's read the textbooks and knows that she's to take a rest after this lol.

Aww it must be so sweet to see her react to you...you've obviously got a great relationship with her and they do get extra soppy when in heat...yes, if you're going to breed, if she does keep coming into heat, then I feel it would be better to breed sooner rather than later, otherwise she's just going to wear herself to a frazzle. But of course if your vet owns her prospective husband and feels it's best to wait till the cooler weather the matter's taken out of your hands...

Glad she's eating more - keeping her strength up

[Joe_Danger]

Seems today the heat was completely over
I hope to God these pills didn't do some kind of permanent damage for her, it started easing up yesterday afternoon and she started eating a lot to make up for what she didn't eat and today she has been perfectly normal tho she sleeps a bit more than usual I guess to make up for lack of sleeping during the heat.

here's hoping it doesn't cycle back for at least another month or two

[Lilith]

Hi, does sound like the pills have stopped her cycle - although cats are never that quite predictable. However, peace at last - and for her too. Do hope you both get some respite now and good luck for the future - let us know how she gets on, all the best, Lil

[Joe_Danger]

Man, I really hope these pills didn't permanently did some kind of brain damage or something to her because something IS off.
She is very passive, very uninterested in stuff but I wouldn't call her lethargic, she is aware and follows what's going on, she asks for food and eats very well, but any and all activity is completely supressed.
She hasn't played even a little bit ever since this heat supposedly ended, she hasn't climbed anything, hasn't even remotely tried to bite me/play fight me like she normally does. For her to not climb up on top of a door or window or on something high is NOT normal.

She doesn't appear sick, her eyes are clear and open as they should be, but she sleeps a lot more and when she doesn't she is insanely tame. I throw a small ball and she DOES run after it but she stops as soon as she gets close to it, she doesn't play with it much less fetches it back. Milla is like a puppy, she plays fetch and brings back objects all the time.

Even the insects that fly around the house aren't a cause for a racket anymore, sure she follows them with her head and eyes wide open, she slowly climbs something up to get close to them but there's no spark in her, no instinct or need to hunt.

Sorry for the long post guys, but I can't help but worry
I don't trust these Macedonian vets with ANYTHING no matter how good they may be

[Lilith]

Hi, I'm certain a hormonal tablet won't have caused brain damage but she does sound subdued. Could it be the hot weather? It's good that she's eating well though.

Were you ever told the name of the tablets? I ask because I made a mistake when I said Ovarid was banned. As I understood it, back in the 80s we were all dosing our girls with it and it didn't always work, and then the alarm was raised over side effects - I remember taking part in a survey - and, as I understood it, the stuff was withdrawn after that. Either it's come back on the market or I got my wires crossed big time! Sorry about that!

My own girl, Jacinth, the one who called and called, was absolutely fine temperament and healthwise despite taking the stuff, but after her third litter began to have problems. Kittens who 'faded' soon after birth and so on. This of course could simply have been to do with the choice of stud - you can have two beautiful cats with excellent pedigrees (by which I mean no inbreeding) who seem a suitable pair - but their genes are not always compatible. No fault of the cats. But Jacinth was fur-plucking; hormonal problems were diagnosed and I decided to retire her. She'd done her whack and anyway all we really wanted was each other; I was never a serious breeder lol. The fur plucking cleared up. But I always blamed the Ovarid - don't know if I was right, of course.

I tried to post a link re Ovarid but for some reason couldn't. However if you google it there's plenty of info. If it IS Ovarid then your vet is very wise in saying that a course of it shouldn't be taken more than once; ironically it's also prescribed for fur plucking and skin disorders like eczema and some cats have been on it continuously, which can lead to liver damage. (Please don't be alarmed by this; Milla has had only one course and Jacinth lived to a ripe old age with NO liver problems.)

However, a couple of details I found interesting. Personality change was noted in some cats on (long-term) Ovarid - but the cats became livelier and even a bit aggressive. Due to the increased progesterone in their systems I expect. Unlike Milla, who is sleepy. The second side effect - increased appetite and weight gain - very like the human 'pill' of course.

Again I hope I haven't alarmed you -whatever Milla has taken, the hormones will leave her system and she'll settle down. It really could be something as simple as the hot weather that's causing this lethargy though of course you could have a word with the vet. I sympathise though when you feel you can't trust them...I'm afraid I feel the same with doctors in the UK! They're all very well for something obvious like a sprained ankle, but otherwise... However it's comforting that your vet doesn't agree with long-term use of hormone treatment.

I do hope this helps a little, and hope that there might be other people on here with more knowledge of this sort of thing. All the best with her and give her a big fuss from me

[Mrs Kane]

Hey there from Spain.

Our cat has been pretty listless as well for the past 2 weeks due to the hot weather so I wouldn't immediately blame the tablets.
I've been reading this thread since you posted but unfortunately I can't help you with any of the "in heat"* issues you've mentioned as I've always had neutered cats. I just wanted to let you know, especially as your kitty is long haired, it's probable the weather may be getting to her. Give her a few weeks to get used to it, or the weather to cool off and if she's not back to her normal self then I'd consider looking at other reasons for her change in mood.

* I couldn't think of another way to say your cat is in heat and allow it to make sense with the weather topic so that's the reason for the quotes. I just re-read this and it looked sarcastic to me from what I said so I just wanted to clarify that it wasn't my intention to do so.

[Joe_Danger]

Thanks guys, I really do hope it's the hot weather but the AC is on all the time these days and it's just fine inside, she never goes out or anything.
The only time the AC is off these days is from 3-8AM or so because it's very very hot outside. Maybe she knows it's hot and conserves energy even tho it isn't inside dunno

She is fine as far as eating and curiosity go, she still wants to see everything and sniff everything and approaches people when they come over. Maybe she just grew up all of a sudden after the heat and lost interest in childish things like playing and climbing.
She is also very affectionate and lets me pick her up and even put my hand over her face and stuff and doesn't get annoyed if I do it for longer, no biting or anything.

She was hunting something last night but it didn't have the same spark it normally does.

Stool, peeing, eating habits all is perfectly normal, alertness is normal

We'll see, I hope all is well

[Mrs Kane]

As long as she doesn't seem to be in any physical pain when jumping or playing [ie miaowing or seeming to hesitate on either of these things or limping] [sorry cat'bdrvgfbvbvd0s laying on the top of the keyboard so I can't use the brackets] I wouldn't worry too much. And you yourself said she's still happy and curious which is important. If she was uninterested in things then I'd start to worry. It's possible that the tablets are affecting her activity levels but as long as no other symptoms arise I wouldn't say there's a huge cause for concern at the moment.