Tails of the radioactive cat (or Mouse.) Radio-iodine treatment for hyperthyroidism

[Lilith]

Oh that's good He'll be fighting fit for the centre treatment then.

Have you had any guidance about radio/iodine treatment after receiving medication? Hopefully there should be no delay but sometimes the Centre likes to have the meds cut down a little before treatment -

http://www.hyperthyroidcatcentre.co.uk/ ... n-2016.pdf Damn got it wrong as I couldn't post link to specific page - sorry! Am going to find page no - will post below.

Second page, middle column. You've probably already read this but thought I'd post the link for general reading as it puts it far better than I ever could.
If you haven't, then please don't be worried, but personally I'd ring the clinic direct to put your mind at rest. They are very very helpful and will give you and your vet any advice needed. But hopefully there should be no problem.

Mousey sends purrs to Pippin

[Lilith]

Right, sorry about that. The link is to their information brochure and the info I tried to quote is on page 9 ... sorry I'm hopeless around technology!

[fjm]

Thanks Lilith - yes, I have read that they prefer you to stop the drugs for a while before treatment. I think the recommendation is for about a week, so plenty of time for that. I will need some notice to plan the trip, as it will probably involve an overnight stay with friends, which may mean boarding the dogs for a night or two, and I feel it would be a good thing for him to build up a little weight in case he is reluctant to eat for a while in the new environment (although frankly, knowing Pippin, that is not very likely!). And, of course, I need to cook and freeze a whole lot of extra nutritious, very tempting meals for him. How long was it from referral to first appointment for Mouse?

[Lilith]

Oh that's good if it's only for a week - I couldn't be sure, and that will fit in with making plans for him. Yes, I couldn't agree more about building him up. They'll discuss his food preferences in detail with you at the Centre as well - I got asked, does she like gravy or jelly? I took along some Gourmet Pate tins and Encore and it was one of my worries too, about Mouse eating, but she carried straight on. Luckily the HT does give them an appetite - and you get a daily phone call where the nurse also discusses eating/behaviour in detail. I was amazed at the level of care and friendliness.

With Mousey, it was all very fast; I suppose it depends on demand, but Mouse was diagnosed on the 17 July; although she was given Felimazole we had to give up after 3 days as she is ex-feral and timid and couldn't understand why I kept grabbing her and sticking something down her throat. Never had to pill her before; she became nervous of me which was heartbreaking. But I'd already made up my mind that radio-iodine was preferable so the referral to the centre must have been made over the next week - and she was admitted on the 3 August.

I'm lucky as I live in Wakefield and although I'd thought it took longer, the journey to Weatherby is only 40 minutes from here, traffic permitting of course. So travel wasn't as complicated, or arrangements - yes, you'll need a bit more time to arrange things - thank goodness it's not the holiday season or school holidays and there oughtn't to be problems about boarding the dogs at short notice.

Look forward to hearing of the next stage and fusses to Pippin and the gang

[fjm]

According to Google it's about a 2 hour drive from here, but that doesn't take account of traffic - I used to do a weekly commute to Harrogate, and I reckoned on a good hour and a half for that, even without snow or ice. Even then I was usually late... It is doable there and back in a day, but I have friends over that way I would like to see if possible.

Two or three weeks from referral to admission would be ideal - plenty of time to sort out blood tests, etc, and pause the Thyronorm. Pip is being very good about that - he already comes and reminds me when he thinks his Loxicom snack is due, and the Thyronorm drops are very easy to give with a syringe. Although having said that, he disappeared out this morning and missed the early dose! He has been out in the sunshine, talking to the neighbours and enjoying the unusual lack of rain; I don't think one missed dose will do much harm.

[Leah]

Hi,
I've just joined this site, and found your thread on the radio iodine treatment, my cat is booked in at The Hyperthryiod Cat Centre in March. I am concerned about it as their booklet said it is only unsuccessful in 1-2% of cats, but the paperwork has arrived in the post today, and that says 90-95% of cats are cured, and also the travelling to the centre is concerning with my cat, and I have two other cats so i will be a nightmare trying to look after her afterwards. I'm glad you were pleased with the facilities at this centre, and thank you for sharing your experience as it made me feel better reading what I can expect, and hearing what you and your lovely cat have been through.

[Lilith]

Hi Leah and welcome

Yes, it is very daunting at first, but truly I can't speak more highly of these people. I know how you feel, it's terrifying at first, It was a case of getting my breath back and suddenly finding that I could cope. It was like a miracle cure - from a skinny wretch to what is now a big glossy spoilt lass. You and your cat couldn't be in better hands, please let us know how you go on and all the best

[Antonio]

Hi Leah and welcome.
The info you have are probably wrong.
The success rate in I-131 treatment is over 95%, maybe even 98%. The rest of the cases will have HYPO-t cats or cats that need a second treatment.

My cat was treated successfully in last August, there's a thread on her as well, https://www.catchat.org/felineforum/vie ... =13&t=5958.
She had her last blood test two weeks ago and the result was absolutely positive, T4 and fT4 are back to normal.

Managing the post-treatment in a multicat house can be a problem, but if you have a spare room where you can leave your cat for a few weeks, it's fine.
Some precautions will be necessary towards people in the house too, especially if you have small kids.
As I expleined in my thread, I took my chances and took no special precautions or countermeasures, but this was my choice.

Please, introduce your cat and her history to us in a dedicated thread, we'll be delighted to meet her!

[Lilith]

Yes, please introduce us to her

I forgot to say, if the Wetherby Centre offer to treat a cat for free, again, if the initial treatment fails, that has to be a good guarantee as to the success of radio-iodine. But, yes, at the moment you'll feel nervous, any owner would.

Oh and glad these threads have helped; I'm so glad myself that I found this forum or I might not have known what to do for Mousey - all the best and hope to hear more of your cat's experiences, good luck and purrs from Mouse

[Mollycat]

Thank you Lilith for pointing me in the direction of this thread. I haven't read it all yet just skimmed, but will do when I'm in a better frame of mind.

Molly is having I131 hopefully today. I say hopefully because so far this is not going very well. Phone call last night said she is "not settling" has eaten very little and is dehydrated. So instead of leaving her alone they have stuffed an appetite stimulant down her throat and a needle between her shoulderblades for subQ fluids, as well as taking bloods I knew about and a urine sample I didn't. At least 4 times in 6 hours they've had her out, no wonder she isn't settling. If she doesn't settle today she will have to wait until tomorrow.

Molly threw out every rulebook including the one on hyperthyroid. We know she is because her T4 readings were 70 on diagnosis in November, 30 on Hills y/d (cannot medicate which I'll explain in a moment) and 76 uncontrolled on admission for treatment. But she is fat, and I mean fat. We struggled with her weight for years, until we found Hills Metabolic, which she was on for 18 months up until this diagnosis during which time she came down from a peak of 5.6kg (unable to wash her back) to 4.5kg (with some loose skin lol). But in 10 weeks on y/d she has shot back up to 5.1kg. And all this yo-yo dieting won't be doing her any good either.

Not one vet I've spoken to so far has any concrete advice for me on her diet. For all I know it could have been the diet food that has caused this, it must do something to boost metabolism as well as being reduced calorie, but Hills aren't going to tell me anything incriminating! She needs a food that is high is quality protein to help her rebuild lost muscle, but low calorie to help shift the lard. Metabolic is 40% protein (dry matter) so not bad, but still high carb and I'm suspicious of it now anyway. The vet's "helpful" suggestion to cut down portions is great in theory - except that Molly gets very insecure when her bowl is empty, she is nervous enough already (rescue with history) and becomes aggressive towards the other cat. I cannot afford for this to happen, my home is not a place where they can be separated and a bullied cat with renal failure and both hyperstressed isn't what we want to achieve either. I desperately hope treatment will reset her appetite to match her metabolism but I'm not holding my breath because in 6 years she has always tended to be a podge and I can't imagine with such a borderline elevated T4 that she's been hyper since the age of 6. So the only option left is a low calorie diet management food supplemented with a little chicken, turkey, pork and fish for protein boost. You'd think there was better advice available!

Molly is extremely nervous with issues dating back to kittenhood, inappropriate handling, grabby children, noisy chaotic household, young mum, no socialisation etc. The vet we saw at assessment understood this and asked for her to come in an extra day early, but she's now on leave and maybe notes weren't clear or not read so she was booked in on the regular standard day 2 days pre treatment. And has not settled. And the vet she is under for the treatment doesn't seem to get just what we're dealing with, she didn't react when Molly began to pant in the surgery - extreme stress. So I am now extremely stressed for her. The isolation period here is 10 days and hopefully she should have had a low enough dose that maybe she can come home a day or two early.

We had a Reiki session for her just before she went in and I have booked another one for today because the last one seemed to help, ie I was actually able to get her in the carrier to get her there, so I am desperately hoping another one will help her now so we can get this done and get her home. when I first adopted her she was under the bed for a week and I wasn't able to touch her for more than a year - she really is a high-end case of deeply traumatised - and I just don't think this vet is taking account of what I've explained. The medical care may be outstanding but I don't have confidence in their customer care at the moment. Should get an update tonight, fingers crossed. Healing vibes welcome.

Oh and just to add - you guys who parted with £1800 - ours was £2500 because of the battery of assessment tests, by the time we've had all the pre and post tests as well I can't imagine i will have much change out of 4 grand.

[Lilith]

Mollycat, I hope it helps (I think I had a brainwave about the disposable takeaway containers during isolation) but I'm so very very sorry to hear of poor Molly's bad experiences!

It's a good thing she found you in the first place - she sounds to be as much of a madam as my own Molly, but my Molly was the original devil kitten, ginger ninja, gangsta Moll, our Nipper (and she hasn't changed AND I still have the scars to prove it!) They need some understanding, don't they?

The Wetherby Centre was such a gentle place - but Mousey was pretty laid back and a classic hyperthyroid example ... there's a difference! The treatment your Molly has had to undergo sounds very invasive and traumatic for a shy cat ... it's hard to know what's right and what's wrong, but personally I'd think it better to go at the cat's pace rather than veterinary routine ... You must feel so helpless and angry.

That £1800 didn't include subsequent vet/lab fees (which was fair enough of course.) I confess Mouse and I chickened out of the final lab tests, not because of money but she was obviously doing so well (and still is despite a blood test re constipation treatment) and both she and I found vet visits traumatic; we're lucky to have home visits these days if really needed, but I reckon with hindsight I had to allow another good few hundred quid - and prices will have gone up since then. But I'll never regret it in Mouse's case.

I do hope she settles soon, poor girl, and that the treatment can go ahead without stressing her - all paws and tails crossed here and hugs to you both x

[Mollycat]

I think the centre is likely to know more than that website

Don't bet on it. They are experts for sure, but the best experts can't know everything.

Example: Molly was diagnosed as a result of me saying let's do a full blood screen now we've got her here for the first time in 3 years, and we had got her there for suspected early hepatic lipidosis following refusal to eat or drink and yellow dire-rear and a sticky slimy yellow bile pookey.
Her T4 was up and ALT slightly up, indicating HT, but vet said she had one freak reading, high bilirubin, that was unexpected with HT and could indicate some other liver issue.
I'm not buying that. An afternoon on Google and nothing about this in cats but a ton of NCBI proper science papers of this link and its pathways in humans. So hyperthyroidism can cause a change in bilirubin in humans but in cats it's completely unrelated? I got an itchy chin! What's more, the pathway involves blockage of the bile duct, so it would also wrap up the mystery of the bile pookey.

As for Mousey and her constipation - bile acid plays a role in absorption of fats, as well as increasing motility in the colon. So logically if hyperthyroidism affects bile, and bile affects normal stools, I'd be reluctant to dismiss Mousey's post treatment issues as a possible cause. I don't know how because I'm neither a vet nor a biologist, but I'd be surprised if it wasn't connected.

If my Moglet had been much older I might have run with the y/d and the weight problem, but she's 11/12 ish and otherwise very well with only slight heart thickening and a little issue in one eye which they think might be the result of a past trauma (including infection, not necessarily getting dropped on her head though anything is possible) and very healthy kidneys. My head knows I'm doing the right thing but my heart is breaking for her, especially as she doesn't know she's ill. And I already know what quarantine advice I will be taking and what I might just have selective dementia about.

I will be offering constructive feedback about their internal communications but thank you from the bottom of my heart for your time today and sharing your Mouse's story in such detail and with such lightness and humour. You have really helped me calm down from the worry and anger even if it's just for a while. I know she will be fine, but I also know she isn't fine right now and like you say I'm helpless to help her.

[Lilith]

Oh dear did I write that?

I must have been on a bit of a high (or on the beer lol!) And I never connected Mouse's constipation with her RI treatment ... or did I? Never know with me ...

Her papa (I think - they were ferals) Finn the golden labrador cross, was just the same, and arthritic too, which meant he'd squat in the tray, find it too uncomfortable, get up but then ... oh no? Oh yes. IT came out. Nowadays I have to be prepared for Mousey Maltesers in the oddest of places despite regular laxative. She DID leave me a massive Mousey motion in one of the trays though!

Glad the thread helped - and hugs to you and Molly (despite the dire-rear and the yellow pooky stuff!) and again all the very very best! xxx

[Mollycat]

Thank you Lilith.

I haven't named them so far but I'm less and less impressed, I haven't had a phone call back today and it's now out of hours - so I don't even know if she has had her injection or not, if she has eaten, if she has escaped or had a heart attack with the stress ... I'm exaggerating of course but this is not the gold standard I am paying for. Hopefully a few words in the morning might set things back on track!

[Lilith]

Oh, what a shower! Not much 'customer care'. I know what you mean; one half of yourself rationalises that 'no news is good news'; the other half feels frantic. It's awful when a cat's away, even if only for half a day or so, never mind this.

I'd ring them if you don't hear this morning - and I do hope all is well. Poor little Molly. Good luck to you both! x

[Mollycat]

Thank you Lilith, they will get some constructive suggestions for improvement in due course.

In the meantime, I rang the moment they opened, MOLLY HAS HAD HER INJECTION, they are still monitoring her appetite which they say is poor but I take that with a pinch of salt as she has been on half a pouch twice daily plus free low calorie dry. I pray this is the 'appetite reset' she so badly needs but we'll see, more likely the stress of it all ... now she has 10 days of being left alone to glow in the dark.

Thank you so much Lilith you have no idea how much you have helped to keep me calm.

Molly also had a distance reiki session and if the first one was anything to go by this should have made a huge difference for her. Highly recommended.

[Lilith]

Hey that's great - the first hurdle over, and I'm so glad if I could help - that's what this forum is all about

Now to wait ... A friend of mine is into reiki and swears by it; I've never experienced it myself but can imagine it will work at a distance, no different from visualisation.

Your description of Molly and her appetite reminded me of Mouse's father, Finn; he too had appetite anxiety; I think he feared that the food supply would run out (having lived on the streets all his life, food had been chancy.) He would stuff - and then puke. I used to say that he was like an ancient Roman at a banquet and that the carpet was his vomitorium. But - poor chap, for years after he moved in, if I had to, not exactly tell him off, had to just say 'don't', or even if I was just grumbling generally, he'd run to the bowl of biscuits and start cramming himself, as if he was scared of being thrown out any moment and meant to get his grub while he could. Everyone in the street called him 'Garfield' - there was a distinct resemblance lol. He was so confident and affectionate but underneath so insecure ... eventually he grew out of it. So I agree, perhaps this episode might change Molly's habits and make her less dependent on the food bowl ...

All paws and tails here crossed for you both and hope the time passes quickly xxx

[Lilith]

Hi Mollycat, have you heard any more about how she's doing?

[Mollycat]

Hi Lilith, thanks for asking. I planned to post an update when I have one, most likely tomorrow when the vet promised to ring again, only this time I will ring before closing time if I haven't heard!

My sense of her is that she will now be much more settled now she is being left alone in comfort with a den to hide in and platforms to lie on, her toys and a cardboard tray and her familiar food.

She is very nervous generally so I'm taking the opportunity while she is away to do some tidying and cleaning, carefully avoiding the areas where I need to preserve her scent. Cupboards etc and a full clean of bathroom and kitchen.

I was looking for a picture of a glow in the dark cat to post on facebook and stumbled on real life luminescent cats which have been genetically modified to glow green in the dark. Something to do with HIV research - the glow genes from jellyfish and some HIV resistant genes from Rhesus monkeys. I don't understand how glow in the dark cats can help with this, but what would it mean for a cat's night time road safety!!!

[Lilith]

Wow!

And as for fighting in the dark ... Portuguese Cat o' War? Would definitely outdo this guy ... this is hilarious but safe to watch as it's only verbals; the person filming made sure they never got to grips -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2LTd1wmTjo

If there are any cats in the house though, it's a good idea to turn the volume down as the language is appalling!

Hope your Molly's much improved and glowing happily

Off-topic I know but St Pat's greetings to everyone - my lot have a special lunch and I'm enjoying a bevvy or several and even Shahi the royal python has his rat defrosting ... there is no truth in the tale of St Pat casting all the snakes out of Ireland, I tell him, and perhaps I ought to get out the food colouring and dye poor ratty green but perhaps ... no ...

SLAINNTE!

[Mollycat]

Slainte! (a little late)

Thank you I hadn't seen the full length version before.

Molly is much more settled and eating a little though they are concerned about and monitoring what they call her poor appetite. I am praying it's just reset to match her energy spent and I can look forward to a normal size pudding with normal food. Plus it would answer the question how long has she been hyperthyroid. But most likely (sigh) it's just being in a strange environment and once home she will try to make up for it.

Thursday or Friday she will be moved from the HOT CAT ward (had to giggle) to the long-stay ward that I prefer to call the COOL cat ward. She will undergo another urine test (so easy these days with the special collection litter, I vowed no cat of mine would ever have to suffer what my old cat had to suffer in 1995). Then I presume more bloods and a weigh-in and all being well she should be ready to come home Tuesday next week.

I have to admit the house is a much calmer place without her, as her nervousness really rules everything.

[Lilith]

Lol I love that video - commented (different user name) that the black and white guy looks like he's jailing, jeans falling off his hips

Glad Molly's progressed out of the hot ward

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pblSU5M1d1Y

Sorry - couldn't resist! Honestly, really pleased she's getting along and wouldn't it be great if this episode DID reset her system ... wonder if her glands have been wonky all her life ... I'm no expert, just a guess.

Good luck to you both and please keep updating ... you'll be glad to have her home again even if it means hands off for a while. I still marvel at the change in Mouse - from an elderly scruffy poorly cat she's now shed years and is a glossy contented creature in the best condition ... it really is an amazing treatment

[Mollycat]

Not out of the hot ward yet, that's Thursday or Friday!

She's very much a hands-off class of a cat anyway, except with me, but hopefully she will be sulking for a little while. But I'm sure they know the 10 mins a day and not sleeping in the same room doesn't happen to many of the cats leaving hospital. And if we don't have to burn all their cat trees and our carpets, then how much risk can there really be?

Your Mouse's T4 was very high though wasn't it? Sounds amazing you're bound to still be a bit Wow!! about it, so lovely to read about what you went through and how it's all been worthwhile. Thank you

[fjm]

It will be interesting to see if she is less nervous once the thyroid issues are sorted out. Pippin has always been very laid back, and that didn't seem to change when he was hyperthyroid - he quickly made friends with the staff at the centre. He did ease back a little on the ravenous appetite after treatment, although he still eats more than he really should. He wasn't terribly happy about the weeks of confinement at home, but accepted it all, then did his best to pick up where he left off once the door was opened. He is very arthritic, and had lost a lot of muscle tone through the weeks of limited activity, but a year later he is large and sleek and pootles around gently, finding the comfiest spots to snooze and pushing the dogs off my lap if he wants to be there.

[Mollycat]

It will be interesting to see if she is less nervous once the thyroid issues are sorted out. Pippin has always been very laid back, and that didn't seem to change when he was hyperthyroid - he quickly made friends with the staff at the centre. He did ease back a little on the ravenous appetite after treatment, although he still eats more than he really should. He wasn't terribly happy about the weeks of confinement at home, but accepted it all, then did his best to pick up where he left off once the door was opened. He is very arthritic, and had lost a lot of muscle tone through the weeks of limited activity, but a year later he is large and sleek and pootles around gently, finding the comfiest spots to snooze and pushing the dogs off my lap if he wants to be there.

I never thought of the nervousness, yes that will be interesting. Molly can be a bit hissy and gets the night time yowlies but the nervousness having been there right from day one and the previous owner telling me she was timid that never occurred to me. The appetite is what I'm desperate to have put right. She has lost a lot of muscle but put ON so much fat going from diet food onto y/d for 4 months.

Was Pippin's T4 very high, and was it diagnosed because of symptoms? Poor love, how old is he?

[fjm]

He is 16 next month. He was diagnosed after noticeable weight loss, confirmed by blood tests - T4 was not extreme, but definitely high enough to warrant treatment. He did well on the tablets for a few months, but I decided on the radio-iodine as the best option for a cure, rather than long term management. We had a few ups and downs - the vets in Wetherby were concerned about his blood pressure, and then he developed a very irregular heart beat, so he came home with a bagful of drugs, but both problems disappeared once he was home and his thyroid was back in balance. He is a bit of a creaking gate - I spend my time researching things that may help with his arthritis, and he spends his time spitting them out...!

I home cook for all four of my animals - it is a good way of keeping the protein up while managing the calories.

[Mollycat]

Thank you fjm that is reassuring. I would love to home cook for them or raw feed but having had to juggle one with renal and a delicate tum and one with a tendency to podge, neither will take bone or offal only pieces of certain meats and some only raw, others only cooked, and some raw one day and cooked the next, and neither will eat anything with the powdered bone meal and taurine supplement, it was just too much of a headache. The one who was raw fed before refused point blank to touch raw the moment I adopted him. Would you believe when I got these two (from different homes and very different backgrounds) neither would eat chicken at all in any form??

Have you tried Devil's Claw for arthritic pain? I took it for years for my back, it's mainly used for horses and dogs but might be worth a look.

[fjm]

Thanks Mollycat. A quick google indicates that Devil's Claw has similar properties and side effects to meloxicam, and he two should not be used together, so it is probably best to stick to the one I know works. I tried gabapentin, but that did not seem to have much effect on the pain and made him wobblier round the back legs, and he has hated every glucosamine supplement I have offered. Cartrophen may help, although it is hard to tell. He's not keen on whole meals of oily fish, but enjoys a few drops of salmon oil off a teaspoon (in fact all four animals will sit in a row for a lick of "fishy medicine") - I may have to concoct my own mixture! Fortunately both cats and dogs eat most things, although Sophy the papillon cannot tolerate turkey, and I limit high fat meats like pork and lamb, so I mostly use beef, chicken and rabbit, with salmon when I can get it. I can't imagine a cat that won't eat chicken - it is considered the Best Thing Ever here!

[Mollycat]

Yes all these things have to be researched for side effects interactions etc. I thought gabapentin was a sedative rather than a painkiller?

Pork isn't actually very fatty at all, once you remove the visible fat. Fillet or loin is very lean, very little marbling, it's all removeable. That said it's not the best meat really. Mine love it. Molly started eating chicken only if it had been cooked in a curry sauce, or chicken kebab, I mean chicken doner! But they both do now.

[Lilith]

Ha, sorry Mollycat, had another senior moment - but not long now until she's a cool cat

Fjm, that's interesting - lately Mouse has been much much bolder and doesn't run and hide if there's a visitor; she always did before. Have you tried green-lipped mussel powder for the arthritis? You can buy it in capsules or a huge tub (very good value from Zooplus) and it just smells fishy; easy to dose a meal with. Julia, one of the vets at Wetherby, thought highly of it.

Ha, my lot don't eat chicken unless it's lean, freshly grilled or roasted. When the ferals were moving in I once got presented with a cooked chicken quarter (it'll do for the human: WE eat PROPER catfood!)

Love and purrs to everyone from me and Mouse and my Molly (whose name ought to have been Pita ... acronym for Pain In The A .... ahhhhh ... posterior!)

All the best!