Honey’s results

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Mollycat
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Re: Honey’s results

Post by Mollycat » Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:59 pm

Oh boy, that's a can of worms right there. Safe up to 15 grams per day for humans, so what's the safe level for a cat? And not safe for cats with IBD, this raises all kinds of questions. Reminds me of finding out that the sharp rise in feline hyperthyroidism could have links to certain furniture fire retardants, fish flavoured cat food, or something else I've forgotten.

On the plus side I'm relieved to see none of these items on the ingredient list of Felix good as it looks, but then again how much has to be in there to be listed? I just checked the renal food Boo was on and it's not listed there either but that was a heavily processed plasticky chunks in a kind of runny gravy (I don't trust cat food gravy) so I'm not convinced it would always be listed. It does show "derivatives of vegetable origin" which could well be xanthan or anything else.

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Re: Honey’s results

Post by Raych1975 » Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:07 pm

I have a feeling i read somewhere that manufacturers don’t have to list all ingredients... but most are probably hidden in ‘by products’ or vegetable matter etc etc.
I found myself looking at the listed amounts of cassia gum in 3 food makes and i thought i need to stop as it will become impossible to monitor. Looks like home cooking or raw is why people do it for these reasons.
The only wet food i have seen honey eat with real gusto was a couple of felix pouches, sainsburys pouches and butchers kind of. She got bad tum on them all.
I know to never feed rabbit flavour as she bought it straight up and i’m not sure she is good with duck

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Re: Honey’s results

Post by Raych1975 » Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:10 pm

Oh god wish i never asked the questions!!
Little paw big paw reply
We add very small amounts of xanthan/ locust bean and carrageenan gum in our products.

So this has two lots of stuff to avoid!! It listed on packet as natural.... this is the one honey been having a bit of over the last week!

Cannagan
Tapioca
(think this one not too bad)

Waiting for scrumbles to reply

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Re: Honey’s results

Post by Mollycat » Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:40 pm

I'm pretty sure you're right and it applies to human food too, that below a certain level things may not have to be listed.

If you have asked Purina/Nestle about Felix, particularly AGAIL, could you let us know? In fact, given the potential size of the problem if it is implicated in these mysterious digestive problems, might be worth a pinned thread listing foods that have it in? Or better still, foods that don't.

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Re: Honey’s results

Post by Raych1975 » Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:29 pm

I haven’t contacted them but i will do. I concentrated on the brands that i thought was grain free and ‘natural’ ingredients.

Whilst a lot of dry food has cheap fillers and grains which aren’t good, at least they don’t have these binding agents. Starting to wonder if grain free dry food isn’t actually that bad! Can also see why people go home made/raw. But tbh most cats are fine with any food so wouldn’t cause problems, it’s the owners with cats who have health problems is the issue.

I genuinely don’t know where to go with food with honey Or her sister now. Is it best to give her a bit of what she likes despite poss flare ups or Try to give better bit of wet on the off chance she might be ok.! Looking back, all the wet foods she had seems to have any or all of these binding agents in, as well as rice in the dry.

Can of worms i think !

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Re: Honey’s results

Post by Raych1975 » Mon Sep 14, 2020 5:36 pm

Mollycat wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:40 pm
I'm pretty sure you're right and it applies to human food too, that below a certain level things may not have to be listed.

If you have asked Purina/Nestle about Felix, particularly AGAIL, could you let us know? In fact, given the potential size of the problem if it is implicated in these mysterious digestive problems, might be worth a pinned thread listing foods that have it in? Or better still, foods that don't.
Looked on all felix boxes in asda tonight including agail, they all list cassia gum

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Re: Honey’s results

Post by Mollycat » Mon Sep 14, 2020 5:57 pm

Raych1975 wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 5:36 pm
Looked on all felix boxes in asda tonight including agail, they all list cassia gum
Just rechecked mine, AGAIL senior 7+ meat in jelly selection and that definitely does not. Derivatives and proteins of vegetable origin, various sugars, but cassia gum is not listed there by name.

So what's going on?

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Re: Honey’s results

Post by Raych1975 » Mon Sep 14, 2020 6:02 pm

Check a little further down as it wasn’t in the actual ingredients.... bit naughty really

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Re: Honey’s results

Post by Raych1975 » Mon Sep 14, 2020 6:07 pm

Mollycat wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 5:57 pm
Raych1975 wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 5:36 pm
Looked on all felix boxes in asda tonight including agail, they all list cassia gum
Just rechecked mine, AGAIL senior 7+ meat in jelly selection and that definitely does not. Derivatives and proteins of vegetable origin, various sugars, but cassia gum is not listed there by name.

So what's going on?
Just found it on a supermarket website, senior agail under nutritional bit;
Cassia gum: 2 800

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Re: Honey’s results

Post by Mollycat » Mon Sep 14, 2020 6:17 pm

Sainsbury's? Says at the bottom read the label and don't rely on the info here. It doesn't list it on the box. None the wiser really. Have they changed the recipe and Sainsbury's don't know? Or changed the labelling and Sainsbury's is still correct but their box now hides it?

Have a read - https://efsa.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/do ... .2017.4709

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Re: Honey’s results

Post by Raych1975 » Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:09 pm

It could be either as they do change recipes. I will have a nosy at the senior range next time i’m in shop.
It’s all mind boggling
Interesting read. I think it boils down to whether a cat has digestive/GI problems or not. Overall most cats are ok on all foods....

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Re: Honey’s results

Post by fjm » Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:37 pm

Getting detailed ingredients and analysis information on pet foods is not exactly easy! Zooplus is better than most at displaying information from the packet but given the catch alls ("cereal", "meat meal", "of animal origin"), and all the stuff that doesn't even have to be mentioned if the quantities are small, that's not always very helpful. I have been trying to choose a biscuit for Pip and Tilly - low in phosphorus but not too low in animal protein. I'm beginning to think it doesn't exist...

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Re: Honey’s results

Post by Kay » Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:15 pm

Years ago I fed this food to two of my seniors https://www.miscota.co.uk/cats/josera/p ... C8EALw_wcB and they took to it readily

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Re: Honey’s results

Post by fjm » Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:06 am

Thanks Kay - don't want to hijack the thread, but I will add it to my list!

Raych, when dealing with Honey's digestive vicissitudes you can at least be grateful that she is a cat, and not a dog. Poppy had me out at 3.15am and again at 4am this morning, complete with lead, torch and poo bags... I gave her a dose of metro and we went back to bed, but it was a while before I slept and even then I had one ear alert for her needing to go out again.

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Re: Honey’s results

Post by Raych1975 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:21 am

Ooooh that is true, at least cats can go to the toilet themselves, either in tray or in my case, they use plant pots in garden!!!!! Ahh i hope Poppy is bit better today. Feel free to hijack thread!, all info and advise is happily received and shared

Ingredients are a mindfield especially when it may not be anything in food that triggers a flare up, if its ‘just the way things are’

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Re: Honey’s results

Post by Raych1975 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:14 pm

I know no one can really say but just wondering what anyone thinks;
Last time honey had upset tum i stopped wet food with cassia gum etc, it cleared up
Time before i stopped fortiflora, it cleared up

This time her stools still not firming up

So, the dry food she been on for a fair while is applaws chicken and lamb. Im starting to wonder if its the dry food causing it? The fortiflora and cassia gum stuff could just be red herrings?
But if it was the dry food, which has been consistent, surely she would not have any good days?

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Re: Honey’s results

Post by Mollycat » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:41 pm

Whether it's a bowel problem, a multiple organ inflammation problem or a lymphoma, in all 3 cases and many more chronic conditions besides there simply isn't one single reliable trigger. Honestly, just ask anyone with Crohn's or IBS and I promise you eventually you'll give up stressing about which individual item it might be causing all your misery. You still seem to be thinking of this as a straightforward allergy, where a trace is guaranteed to trigger a reaction causing symptoms. Chronic conditions are much more fluid, dose dependent, interactive, stress related, with a multitude of other factors that it's hard to even imagine having a bearing both from inside and outside the body. I keep mentioning HI because chronic conditions are very similar to it and completely different to allergies, even though histamine is the main mediator in both cases. With my HI I'm lucky it's not too food-sensitive but I can enjoy scrambled eggs in the morning with no problem but an omelette in the evening is guaranteed to have me up at 2am scratching like the worst flea-bitten stray dog.

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Re: Honey’s results

Post by Raych1975 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:52 pm

I just know the vet keeps saying if it was the right food for her she wouldnt be poorly . He says if we get that right then sorted! Hence why i still sound like i searching for the trigger
I got in tonight to two more splats and her bum looked Sore and bloody,cleaned her up and have just left house to go gym. As soon as in car i burst into tears which i not done for ages. Im doing everything but nothing is working and poor honey cant be happy

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Re: Honey’s results

Post by Mollycat » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:11 pm

It's very unfair, judgemental and inaccurate of the vet to suggest that if Honey was on the right food she wouldn't be ill. But I am starting to understand why you're so much more stressed about this than you should be - we all want to do the very best for our loved ones including pets, and to have in effect a doctor telling you it's all your fault your baby is sick is enough to make you ill with guilt and worry!

There is with 99.9% certainty no magic food that is going to make Honey perfectly well all day every day for the rest of her life. This vet is implying all you have to do if find it, as if that was even possible, and then she would eat it.

No wonder you are tearing yourself apart like this and so desperate to find that magic food. But changing food and feeding regime all the time, not to mention your stress, all isn't helping Honey.

It's not your fault that Honey is ill.
You are doing your best for her.
It's ok for cats to be pookey and have the squits sometimes.
It's ok to feed them something they will eat that isn't the best thing for them.
You're doing a great job in an impossible situation.
Be a little kinder to yourself about it!

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Re: Honey’s results

Post by Mollycat » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:34 pm

In fact you know what? Your vet reminds me of an emergency human doctor we saw last year who said, when faced with all symptoms pointing to a little water infection - well your sample has no blood in it and it looks clear (no test mind!) so it can't be a water infection therefore it must be bladder cancer. What an insensitive, stupid, awful thing to say. Blaming you for Honey's illness really isn't all that different, in my book.

Finding the food that she will eat and tolerates best is going to be a long term process that may or may not be more or less successful and could change several times in her life, sending you back to square one each time. Her issues could get worse, or could resolve, or could end up being quite manageable. But don't buy into the idea that there is one magic food out there that will stop all this overnight or that you're at fault for not finding it.

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Re: Honey’s results

Post by Raych1975 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:06 pm

Thanks Mollycat. My gym session not helped me switch off much tonight
I am literally sitting here thinking what the heck do i feed her tonight. I Have enough food to feed every stray cat abroad! I know there won’t be one magic food and it will be about finding something that she is just ‘better’ on and there are bound to be some that make her worse.
It doesn’t seem the dry applaws is doing her much good though

Bladder cancer diagnosis!, just like that! What an insensitive fool! Honestly some people....

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Re: Honey’s results

Post by Raych1975 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:39 pm

In fact it no surprise my head is in a mess; on one hand he tells me not to change her food yet he tells me its all about findIng the right food!!

Oh mollycat btw i was in morrisons tonight and looked a felix senior, cassia gum was on there. But like u said, maybe it not that bad... i think the one to defo steer clear from is Carrageenan. It makes me laugh as on another forum they bang on about miamoor ragout in jelly, grain free bla bla bla but they use Carrageenan as a binding agent, yet the forum goes on about never feeding cats with it!

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Re: Honey’s results

Post by Raych1975 » Fri Sep 18, 2020 8:45 pm

Update, consultant had final results, honeys pancreas is digesting food as it should be so that can be ruled out why she still has squits.
I’m to start protexin probiotic sachets next week but no idea what food to put it in as Wet food either makes her poorly Or she won’t eat it.
Not putting it in dry as consultant wants me to try her on a sensitive dry (arden grange fish sensitive) and wean her off applaws. Not sure it wise to change food at same time as adding protexin!! I been here before with fortiflora!!
Oh and agreed not to attempt metronizadle yet, that is last resort!!

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Re: Honey’s results

Post by fjm » Fri Sep 18, 2020 9:11 pm

When I asked about adjusting Poppy's diet her vet said he would be reluctant to make any changes as the hepatic canned was already bland, and the extra cooked chicken breast the optimal source of the extra protein she needs, He implied that her digestive flora and fauna were basically utterly **rude worded**, and that we would therefore have to find ways of coping with it - hence the Pro-Kolin and metrobactin. I do think the Protexin sachets are helping, although it has taken a month - not so much stopping the diarrhoea but improving things between bouts. For Poppy-dog the balance seems to be a tiny dose of Metrobactin every 2.5 days, plus half a sachet of Pro-Kolin every day.

I do think there must be pleasanter obsessions than the colour and consistency of pet poo, but no one who has not been there could begin to understand the triumph of Perfect Poos three days running, and the way your hopes go Splat along with their digestion ...

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Re: Honey’s results

Post by Raych1975 » Fri Sep 18, 2020 9:41 pm

Haha oh fjm nothing makes me happier than when i have seen a normal poo!!
I accept this is just going to be a way of managing it and i love the description of ‘rude word’ for Poppys digestion. I think honey’s is too tbh
It is good her pancreas results are good as i’m guessing this means if she has got pancreatitis it low level
I just have no idea what to do when she is sitting in kitchen miawing for her wet food, she literally sits on breakfast bar waiting.
I think i told u my vet was full of optimism re protexin sachets and dogs, he said research been vvvv good and it can take 3-4weeks. I’m really pleased its helping Poppy!!

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Re: Honey’s results

Post by Raych1975 » Fri Sep 18, 2020 9:47 pm

Oooh really silly question, honey will be on half a sachet a day too; is there a technique of measuring half?, or just guestimate? I know that sounds sooooo stupid but i know What i mean. Any idea how many teaspoons is half a sachet?
I just know how bad i am at accurate measurements.., my wine glass proves it!

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Re: Honey’s results

Post by Mollycat » Sat Sep 19, 2020 5:53 am

I suspect you're going to need a bigger wine glass.

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Re: Honey’s results

Post by Raych1975 » Sat Sep 19, 2020 6:33 am

Mollycat wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 5:53 am
I suspect you're going to need a bigger wine glass.
:lol:

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Re: Honey’s results

Post by fjm » Sat Sep 19, 2020 6:41 am

I just shake a little over each meal, and reckon on using a sachet every two days. I don't think exact dosing is essential, as it is with the Prednidale, and when I tried opening the sachet to measure it out the powder flew everywhere. A tip - the sachets come in pairs - don't try to tear them apart, or tear the top of one whie it is still joined to the other, or you will end up with expensive powder spilling all over the place. Scissors are safer!

I've given up measuring by the glass, too - I just count the bottles on recycling day, and vow to have fewer next week...

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Re: Honey’s results

Post by Raych1975 » Sat Sep 19, 2020 6:53 am

Thanks for the tips re sachets,will use scissors carefully! Will try the sprinkling bit first even if not right amount to make sure she eats it.... 🤞🏼

A previous neighbour of mine started to buy wine in boxes as he felt paranoid that his neighbours could hear the clink of bottles being put in recycling each week! Lol!!!

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