Honey’s results

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fjm
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Re: Honey’s results

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That all sounds extremely positive. Have you tried home cooking for Honey, now that she is feeling rather better? It is the best way I know of avoiding unwanted ingredients, given manufacturers' propensity for changing formulations without warning. The basic mix is 80% muscle meat, 10% bone, 10% offal, but you can do it with supermarket meat if you add a little ground eggshell (1 teaspoonful per kilo food) instead of the bone. The big advantage of using human meat from the supermarket is that you can always eat it yourself if she won't!
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Re: Honey’s results

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I've been home cooking for my animals for years - if you hate cooking a cheap crockpot/slow cooker may be the answer. Bung everything in, set it for a few hours or overnight, portion into containers and freeze. No possibility of it burning, and one batch could easily last a fortnight. I'd be very interested to hear what the nutritionist suggests, if you decide to go ahead - I don't think I would risk raw with a cat unused to it and with pre-existing issues, either. Cooked is easier, too, as you don't have to be quite so scrupulous about hygiene at every meal.
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Re: Honey’s results

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Just been checking on Tilly's food tins and so far as I can see neither Canagan Grain free and Edgard Cooper have cassia gum or Carrageenan in them (not mentioned on the labels).
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Re: Honey’s results

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There's a picture of the Edgard Cooper food here: https://uk.edgardcooper.com/pages/our-food Tilly only likes it occasionally. Canagan "Chicken and " is strands of chicken with chunks of whatever the chicken is with. Tilly likes Canagan. They also do Tuna fillets with Mussels, which are chunks of Tuna with whole small mussels ( I give Tilly this quite often as the Mussels seem to help her arthritis).
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Re: Honey’s results

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The cats usually get a mix of chicken and beef - about 3 parts chicken to 1 part beef - with 5% liver (beef, lamb or pork, depending on what is available). I chop the liver very finely when it's cooked, or whoosh it with a stick blender, so that they don't get one big chunk, and add ground eggshell once it is portioned (1 teaspoonful per kilo). They also get a complete biscuit and Tilly gets Pro Plan renal sachets, so I am not as scrupulous about making sure the home made mix is completely balanced as I was when it is all they ate.

I usually buy from DAF petfoods, but recently they have been out of boneless chicken mince, so I have been buying supermarket chicken thighs and stripping out the bones. For cats that prefer a pate texture a few minutes with a stick blender does the trick.
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Re: Honey’s results

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Yep - pestle and mortar or coffee grinder! Or you can buy a calcium supplement, of course, but eggshell is cheaper.
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Re: Honey’s results

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Just out of interest roughly how many eggs does a teaspoon of ground shell equate to? Would it be one egg's worth of shell, or a bit less? Do you ever give them the egg or is that all for you?
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Re: Honey’s results

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Good question - I tend to save the shells up till there are enough to fill the coffee grinder 9never used for coffee), but I think about 1.5 - 2 shells to the teaspoon. The cats aren't very keen on egg, but the dogs enjoy scrambled eggs with a little toast. Not that they are spoiled, or anything...
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Re: Honey’s results

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Of course not, heaven forbid.

We knew they weren't spoilt when you told us you cook for them! :lol:
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Re: Honey’s results

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It is hard to say - the only way of knowing for sure would be to do a limited ingredient trial for a few months and then, if her digestion improves, add just the amount of cassia gum typically found in cat food and see what the effect is. But foods that are "safe" can still cause issues for susceptible digestions - I can't tolerate onions or other alliums, and gluten is disastrous for those with coeliac disease. It could be that Honey's illness has sensitised her to all sorts of ingredients that would not usually cause a problem.

Home made food can be all sorts of textures - big chunks, small chunks, jellied, gravy, or blitzed into a pate! Whatever she will eat most happily.
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Re: Honey’s results

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How many days good v bad this week?
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Re: Honey’s results

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There are so many conditions that can cause intermittent diarrhoea - I think it is time to discuss trying good old metronidazole with your vet. Poppy is now on a small, single dose of metronidazole every 2.5-3 days, which is just keeping things OKish, plus the Protexin Pro-Kolin Enterogenic powder which I am hoping will help long term.
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Re: Honey’s results

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As I said before millions of people living with chronic conditions would love to know the magic silver bullet to kill their symptoms once and for all, and pets are no different. Sometimes there is no answer, no identifiable trigger, and all we can do is manage as best we can avoiding known triggers and accept that sometimes that's not enough to prevent an episode.

I never changed Boo and Molly's foods and we had episodes with them both. Boo was on Hills k/d wet and dry for months and suddenly the wet started to make him sick. Then the dry started causing problems. I changed to Felix, he was fine for months then he wasn't. Molly had the squits for well over a year and it resolved without changing anything in her food, though Dreamies I think used to trigger her but it wasn't the only thing.

You can do your absolute best but the nature of these conditions is they will sometimes flare up for no apparent reason.

Pills getting left all around the house really isn't good because it's important to keep up steroids, this really is going to be a challenge!
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Re: Honey’s results

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Thinking hard about this, I think I would ask the vet about trying the Pro-Kolin Enterogenic, and leaving the metro for now. Several reasons, mostly that you don't want to make it any more difficult than it is to give her the steroid, which is essential - the powder is pleasant tasting, and can be sprinkled on food or mixed with water. Also it is slow to take effect, and although the diarrhoea is distressing for both you and Honey, it does seem that it is not greatly affecting her absorption of nutrients. The constant roller coaster anxiety of trying an intervention only to have it fail is extremely wearing - it may actually be more relaxing to try something where you don't expect to see results for 4-6 weeks. It is not wildly expensive online without a prescription - she should only need half a sachet a day - and for me comes into the may-help-won't-harm category.
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Re: Honey’s results

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Why don't vets tell you about this stuff? Especially when you say your cat with chronic dire rear for a year won't touch food with the paste in it?? Is it exactly the same ingredients as the paste?
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Re: Honey’s results

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i don't think it is the same as the paste - it is formulated for long term prophylactic use, whereas the paste is more a short term prophylactic. Honey may still refuse it, of course, but one reaches the point where anything safe is worth a try.
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Re: Honey’s results

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fjm, as Bobby's issues went on for 2 years until he eventually died as a result, (sorry Raych I don't mean to scare you, Boo was 15 years old and a pedigree and in the end the last straw was actually being unable to pee so we don't really know what happened but he was close to the same result from whatever it was anyway) - and Molly went on for more than a year and would not take Prokolin, and not once did any of these vets ever mention that it was available in another more palatable form and one that was more for long term use and results. Next time ...

Raych1975 wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:05 am Mollycat i’m with you re some vets not suggesting things, my normal vet practice were useless still are!, they didn’t even offer pill popper things or syringes when i was struggling to pill her, it took me asking on forums and own research to find out about them. I then rang to ask, response was ‘oh yea, we have them’ 🙄
Mine are usually pretty good so I'm quite annoyed about that! But yes a couple of years ago the dog cut his pad quite badly, on a Saturday morning. I bandaged it but by late afternoon I couldn't stop the bleeding so we went to the out of hours vet who charged us £101 just to walk through the door. Then the vet (not ours obviously) said it looked clean enough and she would bandage it. I said no, with respect I can bandage it and I did, what are you going to do for your £101 that I can't do? Starting with a saline wash of course. Uh, well, what do you want me to do, I can't stitch it? How about glue, can you glue it? Oh yes I suppose we could glue it ... Good, then glue it mamma!!
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Re: Honey’s results

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Oh boy, that's a can of worms right there. Safe up to 15 grams per day for humans, so what's the safe level for a cat? And not safe for cats with IBD, this raises all kinds of questions. Reminds me of finding out that the sharp rise in feline hyperthyroidism could have links to certain furniture fire retardants, fish flavoured cat food, or something else I've forgotten.

On the plus side I'm relieved to see none of these items on the ingredient list of Felix good as it looks, but then again how much has to be in there to be listed? I just checked the renal food Boo was on and it's not listed there either but that was a heavily processed plasticky chunks in a kind of runny gravy (I don't trust cat food gravy) so I'm not convinced it would always be listed. It does show "derivatives of vegetable origin" which could well be xanthan or anything else.
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Re: Honey’s results

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I'm pretty sure you're right and it applies to human food too, that below a certain level things may not have to be listed.

If you have asked Purina/Nestle about Felix, particularly AGAIL, could you let us know? In fact, given the potential size of the problem if it is implicated in these mysterious digestive problems, might be worth a pinned thread listing foods that have it in? Or better still, foods that don't.
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Re: Honey’s results

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Raych1975 wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 5:36 pm Looked on all felix boxes in asda tonight including agail, they all list cassia gum
Just rechecked mine, AGAIL senior 7+ meat in jelly selection and that definitely does not. Derivatives and proteins of vegetable origin, various sugars, but cassia gum is not listed there by name.

So what's going on?
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Re: Honey’s results

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Sainsbury's? Says at the bottom read the label and don't rely on the info here. It doesn't list it on the box. None the wiser really. Have they changed the recipe and Sainsbury's don't know? Or changed the labelling and Sainsbury's is still correct but their box now hides it?

Have a read - https://efsa.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/do ... .2017.4709
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Re: Honey’s results

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Getting detailed ingredients and analysis information on pet foods is not exactly easy! Zooplus is better than most at displaying information from the packet but given the catch alls ("cereal", "meat meal", "of animal origin"), and all the stuff that doesn't even have to be mentioned if the quantities are small, that's not always very helpful. I have been trying to choose a biscuit for Pip and Tilly - low in phosphorus but not too low in animal protein. I'm beginning to think it doesn't exist...
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Re: Honey’s results

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Years ago I fed this food to two of my seniors https://www.miscota.co.uk/cats/josera/p ... C8EALw_wcB and they took to it readily
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Re: Honey’s results

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Thanks Kay - don't want to hijack the thread, but I will add it to my list!

Raych, when dealing with Honey's digestive vicissitudes you can at least be grateful that she is a cat, and not a dog. Poppy had me out at 3.15am and again at 4am this morning, complete with lead, torch and poo bags... I gave her a dose of metro and we went back to bed, but it was a while before I slept and even then I had one ear alert for her needing to go out again.
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Re: Honey’s results

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Whether it's a bowel problem, a multiple organ inflammation problem or a lymphoma, in all 3 cases and many more chronic conditions besides there simply isn't one single reliable trigger. Honestly, just ask anyone with Crohn's or IBS and I promise you eventually you'll give up stressing about which individual item it might be causing all your misery. You still seem to be thinking of this as a straightforward allergy, where a trace is guaranteed to trigger a reaction causing symptoms. Chronic conditions are much more fluid, dose dependent, interactive, stress related, with a multitude of other factors that it's hard to even imagine having a bearing both from inside and outside the body. I keep mentioning HI because chronic conditions are very similar to it and completely different to allergies, even though histamine is the main mediator in both cases. With my HI I'm lucky it's not too food-sensitive but I can enjoy scrambled eggs in the morning with no problem but an omelette in the evening is guaranteed to have me up at 2am scratching like the worst flea-bitten stray dog.
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Re: Honey’s results

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It's very unfair, judgemental and inaccurate of the vet to suggest that if Honey was on the right food she wouldn't be ill. But I am starting to understand why you're so much more stressed about this than you should be - we all want to do the very best for our loved ones including pets, and to have in effect a doctor telling you it's all your fault your baby is sick is enough to make you ill with guilt and worry!

There is with 99.9% certainty no magic food that is going to make Honey perfectly well all day every day for the rest of her life. This vet is implying all you have to do if find it, as if that was even possible, and then she would eat it.

No wonder you are tearing yourself apart like this and so desperate to find that magic food. But changing food and feeding regime all the time, not to mention your stress, all isn't helping Honey.

It's not your fault that Honey is ill.
You are doing your best for her.
It's ok for cats to be pookey and have the squits sometimes.
It's ok to feed them something they will eat that isn't the best thing for them.
You're doing a great job in an impossible situation.
Be a little kinder to yourself about it!
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Re: Honey’s results

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In fact you know what? Your vet reminds me of an emergency human doctor we saw last year who said, when faced with all symptoms pointing to a little water infection - well your sample has no blood in it and it looks clear (no test mind!) so it can't be a water infection therefore it must be bladder cancer. What an insensitive, stupid, awful thing to say. Blaming you for Honey's illness really isn't all that different, in my book.

Finding the food that she will eat and tolerates best is going to be a long term process that may or may not be more or less successful and could change several times in her life, sending you back to square one each time. Her issues could get worse, or could resolve, or could end up being quite manageable. But don't buy into the idea that there is one magic food out there that will stop all this overnight or that you're at fault for not finding it.
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Re: Honey’s results

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When I asked about adjusting Poppy's diet her vet said he would be reluctant to make any changes as the hepatic canned was already bland, and the extra cooked chicken breast the optimal source of the extra protein she needs, He implied that her digestive flora and fauna were basically utterly **rude worded**, and that we would therefore have to find ways of coping with it - hence the Pro-Kolin and metrobactin. I do think the Protexin sachets are helping, although it has taken a month - not so much stopping the diarrhoea but improving things between bouts. For Poppy-dog the balance seems to be a tiny dose of Metrobactin every 2.5 days, plus half a sachet of Pro-Kolin every day.

I do think there must be pleasanter obsessions than the colour and consistency of pet poo, but no one who has not been there could begin to understand the triumph of Perfect Poos three days running, and the way your hopes go Splat along with their digestion ...
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Re: Honey’s results

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I suspect you're going to need a bigger wine glass.
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Re: Honey’s results

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I just shake a little over each meal, and reckon on using a sachet every two days. I don't think exact dosing is essential, as it is with the Prednidale, and when I tried opening the sachet to measure it out the powder flew everywhere. A tip - the sachets come in pairs - don't try to tear them apart, or tear the top of one whie it is still joined to the other, or you will end up with expensive powder spilling all over the place. Scissors are safer!

I've given up measuring by the glass, too - I just count the bottles on recycling day, and vow to have fewer next week...
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