Skin issues

[CatPride]

Hi. I have a solid white 4 year old cat with blue eyes. She is a mixed breed and her name is Halloween. When she turned about a year old, she started scratching her face, ears and head, even to the point of bleeding. We have been to the vet multiple times. The vet has done skin scrapings and a punch biopsy, which was sent to the dermatology dept at a veterinary college. All they could tell me is that she is having an inflammatory response and it didn’t appear to be auto immune related like Pemphigus. We have done a food trial where she was fed only a hydrolyzed protein diet to see if food allergies might be the cause. After over 3 months on the special diet, her inflammation and itching still hadn’t flared down to the point where we could assume a potential food allergy, so, per the vet’s advice, we stopped the trial. The only thing that has somewhat helped is continuous use of Prednisolone and an e- collar to keep her from mutilating her face, ears and head. Currently, she has torn her head open to the point where we had to get an antibiotic for her. We have never discovered what is causing this after over 3 years of trials and tests. She has been pretty miserable throughout. So, I thought I would crowd source this issue and see if anyone else has had similar issues with their cats and what, if anything, worked. Thanks so much for any advice anyone can provide.

[Mollycat]

Normally I'm the first to say if the vet and veterinary college don't know then what can the internet suggest, and I'm also not one to normally recommend this, but have you tried feeding raw? Or at least home cooking so you know exactly what she is eating and how fresh it is?

Out of all the things the vet has tried, are anti-histamines on the list? Do not just give them, check with your vet and get them to tell you the correct dosage for the one you are going to give, if the vet agrees. It baffles me that vets will put us and our cats through this diet and that test and more expensive foods when simply trying antihistamines will tell you in days if the cat is having some form of allergic reaction or not.

[susand]

Your poor pus! I sympathise because I'm going through the same thing with my cat, Harvey. He was prescribed a drug called Apoquel yesterday. Apparently this is a relatively new drug designed to treat allergies in dogs. It isn't licenced for use in cats, because the studies that were done in trials of the drug only tested it on dogs but some vets have started using it off licence for their itchy kitties and my vet has found it to be very helpful in the cats she has tried it with, so I'm giving it a go. I'm told it can cause a bit of diarrhoea in the short term but this should settle after about a week.

Another thing that was suggested is desensitisation treatment. This involves training the immune system not to over react to the things it is allergic to. A blood test is done to look for antibodies. This will tell the vet what the cat is allergic to, which may be several things. A special serum is then made with very small amounts of these substances in it and it is then injected into the cat at weekly, then monthly intervals for a period of time until the immune system learns to switch to a different response when it meets the allergens in question. It sounds a bit new age I know, but it is 'proper science', although only 30% of cats respond fully, 30% get a partial response (ie just a bit better) and the rest don't respond at all. Its also massively expensive so only worth trying if you can afford the gamble of it possibly not working for your cat.

My plan is to see how Harvey gets on with the Apoquel. If he's fine on it I'll keep him on that. If not I might give the desensitisation treatment a go. I've already got a friend lined up to help with giving the injections so I can save a bit dosh as I won't need to pay the vet to do that bit.

[CatPride]

Thank you both for the ideas! We did trial the Apoquel and it didn’t work for her. We have plans to get her serum tested as soon as she can be off steroids for a month, which she hasn’t yet achieved. I haven’t tried feeding raw nor an antihistamine. I will definitely look into both. Thanks again!

[Kay]

have you seen this thread from way back? it began in 2014 but has had more recent posts

viewtopic.php?t=772

[Sandra b]

Hi there, Just been reading through the post and my boy Murphy who is 18 has the same issue ( under control now). He was pulling fur, scratching til bleeding and had various bald patches. I tried everything from my vet also tried cbd oil, I did not try steroids as I feel they cause too many side effects.Nothing helped. I eventually went to see a dermatologist who advised that most of these issues are caused by an allergic reaction and only a small percentage stress related. We felt it was too much to go down the route of testing for allergies as it can take months plus the treatment to desensitize can take a year. We felt at 18 it wasn’t the right choice for my boy. He was prescribed Apoquel which isn’t licensed for cats but has been very successful in treating these conditions. Within a day it started working and Murphy completely stopped pulling his fur out. It is an immunosuppressant drug and works by stopping them feeling itchy and needs monitoring with regular blood tests. If Murphy was younger I would definitely have went down the allergy testing route but at 18yo it was definitely not the way to go for us. He has been on Apoquel for 10 months now and is doing great. Hope this helps.

[mr_frisky]

Has anyone's cat had periocular dermatitis? One of my cats had a white ring around one of her eyes, which still mostly seems to be there but the vets don't seem concerned.

[Mollycat]

For those whose cats have been judged to have allergies - did anyone get put on antihistamines? It just seems to me the simplest thing to try first, because that's not autoimmune but it does involve chronic inflammation and histamine, so it seems to me a logical first step to check whether the problem is histamine related or not. It rules out a whole bunch of possibilities in one simple stroke before going to serum tests and injections.

[Clawsy]

hello I am probably not much help.
But a stray cat here we rescued, he now has very itchy skin. And now has lost a bunch of hair on his tummy and back legs
Really noticed the hair lose quite suddenly, but his scratching has gotten gradually worse and worse.
First we thought it was the food cause he seems to have a delicate stomach compared to my old cat and gets gas and runny stools if he eats some foods. So i had thought it was food allergy, but I dont think so now.

Husband thinks it could be the clay kitty litter. and I thought no way. But have replaced that for him and vaccumed about, will change bedding etc.
I thought na it cant be the litter, because why the tummy problems, but I really do think it could be more than 1 thing going on.
He kicks up the litter more than my resident cat, and its something new he didnt have before when he was a stray. So hoping its the clay litter.

Have bought some of the hydrolised protien food to try also.

Have deflead him a tiny bit earlier than required, because my other old now deceased cat had a flea allergy, and we spent months and months and lots of expensive foods trying different things and vet bills trying to figure out what was wrong, and it was flea allergy, all we had to do was swap to a better flea treatment.

We had thought no it cant be fleas as we are defleaing regularly, but the product we were using was not that good and didnt kill the eggs or something, so once we swapped to the most expensive flea treatment, all her bad skin (it was raw in places) cleared up. My other cat at the time was fine with the flea treatment we used, but not this one. She was really really sensitive to them. Vet at the time said it might be fleas but because we treated her regularly, thought it cant be fleas. But it was and all she needed was a different flea treatment.

stray cat is going to vets in a few days. I think back to when I first rescued him, he scratched a bit then, but nothing like now, no fur loss. When he was stray he was literally eating scavenging to survive and i and neighbours were putting out supermarket food. But then I had to start keeping him in at night for treatment of bite infection and so he had kitty litter over night in a large room.... I noticed then he scratched a bit whenever I patted him.

Anyways my point is, i have a scratching cat, and used to have one years also (with very bad skin and lots of vet visits), and am trying to find answers. But maybe its something simple like kitty litter or not the best flea treatment (something other cats are OK with but not the one who is itching)? something else easily overlooked, (not simple to figure it out, but simple as in its there all the time and something not noticeable much?

[Clawsy]

Came back to say stray cat is now on Apoquel, and I am praying it helps him, apparently it takes 2 days to start working so i really hope it does. Hes got more bald spots, we went to another vet for a second opinion and he has said to try the Apoquel. He is FIV so neither vet wants to try steroids.

I feel so sad, he has been getting worse since I started feeding him, I think it might be something inside the house? As its getting worse and the only thing that has increased is his time inside the house. When I first met him he was outside, then I kept him in overnight in a heated garage so I could treat his injuries he had, then he started staying overnight inside, now hes always inside. I was hoping it was the cat litter but surely after a week it would be getting better if that was the case?
Vet said it could be a combination of things like even my vaping or washing powder, food and stress all making him itchy.

I am giving it another week then will try and use front-line flea treatment as that was the stuff that helped my flea allergy cat and i just will try any shot in the dark now.

[Mollycat]

I'll ask again, has ANYONE with an itchy cat been offered antihistamines?
Especially if they also have digestive system issues?

Has anyone since I last asked, questioned their vet about using antihistamines?

If there is an allergy, there is a histamine reaction, and if there is a histamine reaction, antihistamines should have an effect. If antihistamines make no difference, you know it's not a "flea allergy" and look elsewhere.

If antihistamines do work, then reducing histamines in the diet should help make a significant improvement.

Flea allergy is in many cases a nonsesense excuse and the medical term is idiopathic ie we don't know what is causing this, because if a genuine flea allergy is suspected they should be trying antihistamines. In reality "flea allergy" either means "flea infestation overload" or no fleas at all but we have no idea what it could be.

Don't underestimate stress. We had a cat that was always scabby with a near bald back end and we were fed the flea allergy bull, nothing worked, and yet the instant our other cat died her flea allergy mysteriously vanished.

[Clawsy]

Hi Molly, have you used antihistamines? I will go back to vet and ask them for some I think. Are they a form of steroid? By they said stray cat can't get steroids.
How come they don't try antihistamines if what you say is true it seems very logical to try!

I think stray cat here is stressed he hates other cats and I have to keep them separated so it is stressful here. Always moving cats about and he's been through a lot of vets visits some staying there for days and us trying to sort out a schedule for separating cats, I tried keeping him outside during the day for a week and he got so upset climbed in windows to get in... now my resident cat won't leave a bedroom for majority of the time so stray cat gets run of the house. But stray cat cries if I put him in a room. I am stressed everyone is stressed in the house.

If it's stress do they scratch all over and look itchy and scratch with paws as well as knibbling fur?

Btw we are looking to find him another home

Edit Thank you Molly for the information, I will go bqck to vet about it

[Mollycat]

I use antihistamines, I don't have allergies I have an issue where my body doesn't get rid of as much histamine as I take in or produce, resulting in an overload that comes out as evil welts and itching - that's a very oversimplified description. Originally I was prescribed AH and I still have them on standby always, but rarely need to take them short term now because I watch what I eat. Because histamine builds up in foods, freezing is the only way to pause it, that means HI sufferers like myself should avoid preserved foods (among other things) because the histamine level is high, for example canned foods are very high, and what do we feed cats? Not sure about dry but from what I have learned about histamine my guess is that would also be high, maybe not as high as preserved wet food.

AHs can be used for animals including cats but don't ever give these serious meds without consulting your vet first. That's why I'm asking if anyone has had this conversation with a vet, or knows of any reason why it wouldn't work, but if I had a cat with skin issues with no obvious cause and/or breathing symptoms and/or digestive issues (high histamine levels can affect all 3 systems and more) I would definitely be putting the vet on the spot about it.

They are not a steroid. Antihistamines include Benadryl, Claritin, Zyrtec, Allegra, and lots more, also Tagamet and Zantac among others aimed at stomach problems. Those two groups of meds act on different receptors for histamine and block the histamine from the receptor, so the histamine can't produce the symptoms. If an antihistamine works to reduce the symptoms then you know reducing histamine will help and then you can look at diet, possibly switching to raw, home cooked or any other fresh or frozen and avoiding all preservation methods.

The disclaimer is I've been through this myself, but I have not been through it with an animal, I just don't see why it shouldn't work the same way for them especially when we tend to feed them nothing but preserved food.

[ChonairJazz]

I use antihistamines, I don't have allergies I have an issue where my body doesn't get rid of as much histamine as I take in or produce, resulting in an overload that comes out as evil welts and itching - that's a very oversimplified description. Originally I was prescribed AH and I still have them on standby always, but rarely need to take them short term now because I watch what I eat. Because histamine builds up in foods, freezing is the only way to pause it, that means HI sufferers like myself should avoid preserved foods (among other things) because the histamine level is high, for example canned foods are very high, and what do we feed cats? Not sure about dry but from what I have learned about histamine my guess is that would also be high, maybe not as high as preserved wet food.

AHs can be used for animals including cats but don't ever give these serious meds without consulting your vet first. That's why I'm asking if anyone has had this conversation with a vet, or knows of any reason why it wouldn't work, but if I had a cat with skin issues with no obvious cause and/or breathing symptoms and/or digestive issues (high histamine levels can affect all 3 systems and more) I would definitely be putting the vet on the spot about it.

They are not a steroid. Antihistamines include Benadryl, Claritin, Zyrtec, Allegra, and lots more, also Tagamet and Zantac among others aimed at stomach problems. Those two groups of meds act on different receptors for histamine and block the histamine from the receptor, so the histamine can't produce the symptoms. If an antihistamine works to reduce the symptoms then you know reducing histamine will help and then you can look at diet, possibly switching to raw, home cooked or any other fresh or frozen and avoiding all preservation methods.

The disclaimer is I've been through this myself, but I have not been through it with an animal, I just don't see why it shouldn't work the same way for them especially when we tend to feed them nothing but preserved food.

Wow, that's really interesting! I had no idea canned foods were high in histamine. I have a load of allergies, including a lot of fresh fruit (OAS) so I'm on antihistamnes a lot at the moment due to hay-fever. Strangely I have the opposite problem, I'm allergic to a lot of fresh fruit but fine if it's cooked, tinned or dried (denatures the proteins). How strange! Any idea what it is about canned stuff that makes it so high? I wonder how pouches compare? Do vets have a reluctance to prescribe antihistamines to animals?

[Mollycat]

I've never asked a vet about antihistamines so don't know at all, all I know is I googled and found that antihistamines can be prescribed for pets so it has to be worth asking. But surely if they say it's an allergy they should have thought of that.

Your reactions to fresh fruit - as I said it's an oversimplification, many fruits (but very few vegetables) either contain high levels of histamine or trigger your body to fire up a lot of histamine. Strawberries, citrus fruits, tomatoes, kiwis, stone fruits, many berries, are on the high list. Apples are generally low and safe, but in the end triggers are quite individual. When I was at my worst I could eat eggs boiled, fried, scrambled or poached, in the morning or lunch, but an omelette in the evening had me up all night itching. It really is that weird. If you want a ton of detail about histamine this is an excellent resource https://www.histaminintoleranz.ch/en/introduction.html

But in brief, histamine is many things, primarily a neurotransmitter, and it's released in response to an allergen but also in other defence reactions like stings, sunburn, even stress. As food breaks down in the ageing process histamine rises along with other biochemical changes, and it's part of the ageing of cheeses, pickles, meats etc, and fish gets really high in just hours. So in terms of cat food tinned and dry last longest, I think pouches have a shorter shelf life and my guess is might be a bit lower but not necessarily, but unless you're extremely lucky to catch a batch as it leaves the factory, if high levels of histamine are causing allergy-like reactions in cats, then either giving them antihistamines or changing diet, probably both for the first weeks to get on top of it, seems to me an obvious place to start.

[susand]

I asked about antihistamines for Harvey when he had to stop the steroids because of his conjunctivitis. Her answer was that antihistamines dont tend to work very well in cats and suggested Apoquel instead. The Apoquel has worked very well, I have to say.

[Mollycat]

I asked about antihistamines for Harvey when he had to stop the steroids because of his conjunctivitis. Her answer was that antihistamines dont tend to work very well in cats and suggested Apoquel instead. The Apoquel has worked very well, I have to say.

Thank you, that's interesting!

There are a couple of articles about Benadryl and Zyrtec for cats in WebMD but those could be "sponsored" and their piece on trimming claws is demonstrably wrong even in the so-called facts about how cats' claws grow, so not the most trustworthy source.

[ChonairJazz]

I've never asked a vet about antihistamines so don't know at all, all I know is I googled and found that antihistamines can be prescribed for pets so it has to be worth asking. But surely if they say it's an allergy they should have thought of that

Yeah, I'd have thought antihistamines would be prescribed if it was an allergy. Strange that they sometimes aren't?

Your reactions to fresh fruit - as I said it's an oversimplification, many fruits (but very few vegetables) either contain high levels of histamine or trigger your body to fire up a lot of histamine. Strawberries, citrus fruits, tomatoes, kiwis, stone fruits, many berries, are on the high list. Apples are generally low and safe, but in the end triggers are quite individual.

Yeah, stoned fruits are a major one for me. Peach, nectarine, cherry, anything in that family will set me off. Strawberries, other berries, kiwi and citrus I'm fine with, but anything in the apple and pear family also is a no. Doctor explained that I'm allergic to a protein in the pollen, which is also found in the fruit hence the hay-fever too. I have some weird exceptions though. I'm fine with mangoes and lychees (different families I suppose) and I'm really allergic to a lot of nuts, but strangely not almond (which is the stone of a fruit in the cherry family, so that's confusing as all hell!).

When I was at my worst I could eat eggs boiled, fried, scrambled or poached, in the morning or lunch, but an omelette in the evening had me up all night itching. It really is that weird. If you want a ton of detail about histamine this is an excellent resource https://www.histaminintoleranz.ch/en/introduction.html

No way! How weird is that?! The human body is such a crazy thing at times. Interesting link, thanks, I'll have a read of that later.

As food breaks down in the ageing process histamine rises along with other biochemical changes, and it's part of the ageing of cheeses, pickles, meats etc, and fish gets really high in just hours.

Interesting you should mention cheese, I can't eat a bunch of unpasteurised cheese, especially if it's blue or has that mould rind. I thought for ages it was the mould (I'm severely allergic to penicillin too) but then I'm fine with pasteurised cheese including pasteurised blue cheese. Had me shrugging my shoulders for ages. I suppose again it's the heat in the pasteurisation process maybe. I wonder if that affects the histamine. Just really odd!

So in terms of cat food tinned and dry last longest, I think pouches have a shorter shelf life and my guess is might be a bit lower but not necessarily, but unless you're extremely lucky to catch a batch as it leaves the factory, if high levels of histamine are causing allergy-like reactions in cats, then either giving them antihistamines or changing diet, probably both for the first weeks to get on top of it, seems to me an obvious place to start.

Ahh that's interesting to know too. So I imagine if your cat is histamine sensitive, you'd probably want to feed them the newest stuff, as once it's been waiting awhile, even though it's still in date, it would be higher in histamine? Interesting! Is there more histamine in dried than canned or is this only a wet food issue?

[Mollycat]

Ahh that's interesting to know too. So I imagine if your cat is histamine sensitive, you'd probably want to feed them the newest stuff, as once it's been waiting awhile, even though it's still in date, it would be higher in histamine? Interesting! Is there more histamine in dried than canned or is this only a wet food issue?

I honestly don't know and can't think where you would find any data on it, I've only looked into histamine intolerance for hoomans which is a fascinating topic - 80% of sufferers are women over 40 and there is a strong link with oestrogen and vitamin D. In humans high histamine levels are associated with a range of health problems from Multiple Sclerosis to irritable bowel syndrome and migraine to miscarriage and everything in between.

For cats I'm extrapolating human data but I figure their diet is high histamine just the same as ours would be if all our food was canned. My guess based on human foods would be dry being slightly lower maybe but I don't know. What got me wondering about cat food is that when mine was diagnosed hyperthyroid I discovered that canned cat food especially fish flavoured, and some furniture fire retardants, are under suspicion of causing the rocketing rate of feline hyperthyroidism - which was unknown before canned food happened and is now the number one endocrine system disease. It was the "especially fish flavours" that caught my attention, as histamine rises so fast and so high in fish compared to meat and is recommended avoid altogether unless it can be eaten the same day it's caught for humans. So imagine it sitting in a tin can for months!

[susand]

I've just remembered some advice I received years ago from a vet in London, before the days of Apoquel etc, regarding my then cat, George, who was another itchy pus. She said dust mites can often cause allergies in cats and because they are so close to the floor they are quite exposed to them, especially when on carpet but also soft furnishings, bedding etc. She advised me to get a vacuum with a HEPA filter. The guy in the electrical shop where I bought it asked if I had a child with asthma, as doctors often advise parents to get HEPA filters for wheezy kids. He was really quite incredulous when he learned I was buying a very expensive vacuum cleaner for a cat!

I still have the same vacuum cleaner now and I do think Harvey seems better after I've had a good vac round. Unfortunately, I'm not the worlds most devoted housewife but I will try vacuuming more regularly from now on. I must also invest in a new HEPA filter for it as I think the current one is about 3 years old.