Cat Turns Aggression From Toy Onto Me

[Meow]

Hi, my eight months old cat is already around five-six kilograms, and it's all muscles. His legs are really ripped, and I can see muscles on him through the fur. He's very strong. Kitty wants to play with me all day. I read that you only need to play with your cat fifteen minutes twice a day, but it's never enough for him. Often, play time stretches to over two hours, and it's still not enough for him. If I stop playing with him, he just starts meowing very loudly with deep voice, and walking around all upset. He begs me to play with him as soon as he wakes up, and it just continues all day, and all night, and he's never satisfied. Another problem occurs when I use a plush toy to imitate another cat. As soon, as the toy stops moving, he, while still in the heat of the moment, quickly finds me as his new target, and attacks me with a very little hesitation. I tried to switch to simpler, smaller toys, like little fur balls, and toys on a rope, but he seems disinterested in those, and only when I pick up the plush toys of his size he becomes extremely excited, starts running around, purr-meowing, inviting me to play. In his play, he quickly loses his understanding about what he should not attack, and as soon as the toy stops moving, he finds me as a new victim to pour out all of that adrenaline accumulated.
P.S. He is not spayed. I decided not to do it because it's a body mutilation, and I believe he'll not try to spray because I never let him outside. He's never seen other cats, or never been outside, except two times when I took him to a vet for the vaccination.

What should I do?

Thank you!

[Lilith]

Hi, an entire male cat can be very lively and aggressive, as you're finding out. They can be quite as dangerous as a bull or stallion, especially when they have these natural urges to fight and mate - and spray. He may very well start spraying despite being kept indoors; many stud cats, who've been enclosed and never allowed out, do; I knew of one who used to aim his little water pistol at people, and he was very accurate!

I understand your feeling that neutering's a mutilation, but if you want a pet cat who can live contentedly with you and not be tormented by his hormones, neutering should be done; sorry to be so dogmatic but he's going to go through life in an extremely frustrated state - and end up taking it out on you.

I used to breed Siamese and once took a girl to stud. While I was kissing her goodbye, stupidly ignoring the warning of the stud owner, the stud intervened. This was HIS babe, he said, so back off, and when I didn't, he socked me one round the chops.

I ended up looking as if I'd gone ten rounds with Tyson. And it wasn't the cat's fault. He was an over-excited male brim-full of testosterone - and cats don't realise that human skin isn't protected by fur. Your boy's already big and strong and could really do some damage if he gets carried away. In the absence of females it already sounds as if he's transferring his need for sex to toys - and you. And letting him out to search for females won't improve his temperament either; he'll just get bolshier, and injured in fights.

He sounds a beautiful lad, but please, for his own comfort, get him neutered; again I'm sorry to lay the law down; I don't like to be bossy, but he will be much more comfortable and less demanding if he's done.

All the best.

[Janey]

I agree with Lilith, neutering is definitely the best option and there’s lots of information about neutering if you click on the link here:

http://www.catchat.org/index.php/cat-kitten-neuter-spay

[Meow]

Thank you so much for spending your time to help me out with this issue. Neutering is not an option for me. I decided not to do it, and I will stay with it. To me, it's more than an operation, it's a show of trust, trust in him, his loyalty, conciseness, and potential. He's smart, and he always listens when I talk to him, the only problem he doesn't understand what I say I understand that I'm taking the hard way, but I don't mind walking that extra distance to teach my kitty. I just need someone to support me, and help me to correct his behaviour.
I would greatly appreciate any support, and understanding. Thank you for any help! Please?

[MarySkater]

Meow, I have read all your posts in this thread and others. I'm trying to understand your point of view, and I hope you won't mind if I state mine.

Nature evolved cats in the wild to do two things; grow up, and reproduce. In nature, a successful cat is a male who sires one litter, or a female who rears one or two kittens to independence. This involves conflict for territory and resources. If the individual cat is injured or killed in the process, nature doesn't care. This means the urge to breed is very strong, over-riding personal safety.

When we take cats into our homes as companions, we have different requirements. We provide them with food and care, but in general we don't want them to reproduce. Most of us de-sex our cats so that they no longer have the urge to breed. A cat who still wants to breed, but is prevented from doing so, is living a life of frustration, analogous to a human kept in a cell and never allowed free movement or a glimpse of the sky. You are his jailor, and he's taking out his frustration on you because he has no other outlet. Additionally, your cat came from a farm. It's likely his immediate ancestors were free-roaming breeders, hunters and fighters. If you want to keep an entire tom as a gentle house-cat, I think you've chosen a difficult one.

In my personal opinion, and I don't suppose you'll agree, by leaving him entire you have taken a decision which pleases you, but is causing suffering to your cat, suffering which he will continue to take out on you. You asked for support and understanding. Sorry, I can't give you that. My sympathy is with your cat.

[Ruth B]

Unfortunately, as you have already seen from the other replies, I think you may be in the wrong place for advice and support on keeping him entire. I won't say I understand your point of view I can't, but you are entitled to your opinions. Like the rest I firmly believe that unless an animal is being kept for breeding they are better off neutered.

My experience isn't with unneutered cats, but from a childhood helping with horses and dealing with several stallions. I was always taught that a stallion is temperamental, testosterone filled, and highly unpredictable and dangerous. Hard control through bridles and whips (whips were used to reinforce commands not for beating the animal) was the only means of keeping control and preventing the animal from injuring anyone. I then came across a stallion that someone kept for breeding with his mares, but was kept with the herd not as a separate stud animal. The difference in behaviour was unbelievable, he was a happy content animal, he had his herd and could follow his instinct and do what his hormones were constantly urging him to do, protecting the mares from perceived threats and producing foals. It made me realise that keeping an entire animal and not letting them breed is keeping the animal in constant torment.

I think that this is what your cat is going through and I would theorise that his preference for larger toys is a reflection of this, he is trying to find a substitute for a female cat he can take his urges out on. The aggression shown to you at the end of the play session is the frustration of not being able to relieve himself and seeing you as a substitute for a male cat taking his female away from him. However the last thing I would advise would be to let him out to find unspayed females, that would just end up with him in fights and adding to the unwanted kitten population. Only a fraction of kittens born in the wild survive and only a few of those ever find loving homes.

I would also mention that my Mother many years ago had to have a full hysterectomy for medical reasons. She always said afterwards that she didn't feel any less female for having it done.

I can't really give any advise on calming him down otherwise short of asking your vet about the possibility of oestrogen injections which would help counter the testosterone he is producing naturally, but I am not sure whether that would be an acceptable solution to you, even if you could find a vet willing to do the injections.

My personal opinion is that, if neutering him is so abhorrent to you, you need to carefully consider whether keeping him in constant torment is acceptable, or whether you would be better considering a different type of animal as a pet, if you could find one that wasn't as affected by its hormones. (A female cat that wasn't spayed would have just as many problems even if they were different ones)

[Mrs Kane]

To me, it's more than an operation, it's a show of trust, trust in him, his loyalty, conciseness, and potential. He's smart, and he always listens when I talk to him, the only problem he doesn't understand what I say I understand that I'm taking the hard way, but I don't mind walking that extra distance to teach my kitty. I just need someone to support me, and help me to correct his behaviour.

I'm sorry to tell you this Meow but this isn't a training issue. It's something innate in your cats DNA and sex and he will continue to be like this, training or no. Probably until the day he dies.

You said it yourself: "He doesn't understand." He can't comprehend what you're saying or these feelings he's having and the more he has them without being able to sate such needs the more upset and angry he's going to get.

As much as we want them to be, cats are not people. They don't have the mental capacity to know when something is wrong with them. This is why you need to be there to realise what's wrong and find the solution. And sometimes that's hard.

I understand the feeling of "mutilating" something you love but I recommend you don't look at it that way. Cats generally live much better lives after being neutered, on the male and female side. Their moods are better, they don't pine for sex all the time and feel truly terrible, they don't get all the illnesses and cancers that surrounds not being neutered. Honestly this doesn't just benefit your life, it helps ensure that your cat will be around way longer to be your friend.

I see my cat as among one of my best friends but she doesn't know that. She can't comprehend the idea of "friend". I hope she understands enough that I love her because I take care of her but I honestly can't tell. None of us can. We take care of our furry fluff balls because we want them to be happy and healthy. And if making them stay happy and healthy means they need to go for an operation, or have to take a medicine I don't think anyone here would say no to that, no matter the cost to us.

You want him to trust you? Then do right by him and earn that trust the right way. Trust what all the lovely people on this site have said. You have a wonderful, furry little creature who depends on you to take care of him. Put aside what your ideas of what neutering is to you and research what it would mean for your cat.

[booktigger]

Another thing to bear in mind is that at 8 months old he isn't fully grown and he is only just hitting sexual maturity, so his behaviour will get worse and he'll be stronger. Plus, even if you are lucky and he doesnt spray, his wee will still smell, and that also gets stronger with age - I've scanned strays I knew were unneutered because of the smell coming off them.

[Meow]

Girl Power!

[MarySkater]

Hi Meow,

I haven't been able to decode your post, except that it starts with "I" and ends with "balls" and "off"! Since I can't read the middle bit, I still don't know if you're going to go with the advice on here, or stick with your original plan.

If you do get him neutered, it will take a little time for his hormones to settle down, and for him to forget the aggressive behaviour he's been learning lately. But I would think that in a couple of months you'll have a happier cat and a happier owner. If you're still against neutering, it looks like no one here can help you with controlling him, so I hope you manage to find some useful advice elsewhere.

Good luck

[Meow]

I did it. Thank you so much for talking me into making this hard decision. It's been more than a day now, but my cast still cannot jump, and refuses to play. He just sleeps all the time. All the time. Is something wrong? Thank you. Because it's been all nosy two days now, but he still obviously fells some serious discomfort. He vibrantly shuffles his rear legs, never runs, and can't jump. After few failed attempts he lost his confidence, and now doesn't even want to try anymore.

[MarySkater]

Sleeping may just be his way of recovering from the surgery, and getting through the period of discomfort. But you might phone your vet, describe the behaviour and see what he says. All the male cats I've had were neutered before they came to me, so I don't really know what's "normal," but your vet should be able to advise.

Well done for taking the decision. A lot of us make plans in life, then find that we have to change direction. I'm sure both you and your cat will benefit from having this done.

[Meow]

Thank you for supporting me, and helping me realize how selfish I was. I now can understand that in the comforting I created (living always indoor) it's the best thing I can do for him. Everyone who helped me on this forum is a huge part of this decision. Without your support, and explanation I don't know, I'd I would be able to see the right decision before it's too late. So, thank you. Anyone else who has a neutered cat, is it normal that he looks so weak two days later? Thank you again for all the help ❤

[Meow]

RuthB, is it your cat on the avatar? It looks 1:1 just like mine! How old is it? Is it she, or he? What's its weight? Thank you!

[Ruth B]

Congratulations on the decision to have him neutered, he will be far happier and healthier for it. As to his movements he is still recovering from surgery so I would expect him to be a bit sore around the back legs for a few days, the older they are when they have it done, the longer it takes to recover. If you are at all concerned you could always call the vet and ask for advise. They might be able to give him some painkillers to make him feel better, or worse case have him in to check that there is no infection in the wound. If they have a Saturday morning surgery I would suggest giving them a call for advise, I wouldn't be surprised if they managed to fit him in, it is always better to see a patient during surgery hours than risk a phone call on a bank holiday when it has turned into an emergency. The last time I remember having a cat neutered was when I was about 10 years old so its a distant memory and things have changed a lot since then anyway.

My avatar is my grumpy granny cat, Tiggy, she is about 13-14 years old, as always with rescues you can't be too certain, but she was supposed to be 2 years old when we got her back in 2004. We used to have her and a rescued Ragdoll that was a couple of years older than her and was so laid back and plasid. When he had to be pts we got a couple of six month old cats thinking that they would play together and let her be, unfortunately it hasn't exactly worked out like that. Our young lad Saturn has turned into the bolshy teenager who enjoys teasing and antagonising the old lady, and Freyja our young girl was extremely nervous when we got her and has started to take confidence in Tiggy's attitude and behaviour and follows her around like a little white shadow, much to Tiggy's annoyance. There's no real aggression between them I just think she is saying she really didn't want kids at her age.

[Meow]

Is Tiggy still alive? Sorry, it was kind of hard to understand, if he's old, or if it's female, or male. In any case, can you describe its weight, and length in its prime? Maybe even approximately? Thank you!

[Ruth B]

No problem. Tiggy is definitely still alive and is a spayed female cat.

She is about 13 - 14 years old and now weighs 3.6 kg. The photo was taken when she was a bit younger and in her prime she was about 4.5 kg, but did look a little overweight at that. She was never a particularly big cat but made up for size in attitude.

[Meow]

Can you please post some more photos of Tiggy to show-off its fur colours, and patterns? I can see that even its right leg is coloured just like on my baby!

[Ruth B]

I've managed to find a few others of her for you, hopefully I have managed to resize them all properly. The third one definitely shows her 'grumpy granny cat' face.

[Meow]

My cat's pattern is more aligned, and instead of clay-brown, he has more like greenish tones. The white patterns however are almost identical! : ))) unfortunately I'm having troubles uploading the photos from my phone because I get phpbb errors of some kind.

[nanny pamy]

How is he doing now meow

[Meow]

First three days he was sleeping all the time, couldn't jump, tried a few times, and after that he just gave up. The funny thing about that period is that the very first thing he did after coming back from the anaesthesia, is crawling on his front legs to the food bowl. I decided not to bring it to him because it's their natural way to regain strength. The next funny thing is that he ate a chicken that was lying in his bowl for like four days (he didn't wanna eat it before) entirely, with its bones. After that, he went to sleep, and didn't wake up for the next like 12 hours. When he finally woke up, I brought him some milk (no lactose, zero fat), and something to eat. He decided to only have some milk, and after that went back to sleep. The next day he was already asking me to play with him, but he couldn't run much - it was quite obvious that he feels pain. I decided not to strain him too much because his stitches could become loose. Oh, after having that chicken meal, he crawled directly into my room, and wanted to get onto my knees, but couldn't even stand properly. So, I picked him up, and he fell asleep in my hands. It was a very heart touching moment. I barely made it through without tears
Some time later, my legs started to go numb, so I got a towel, and laid him down on the floor, onto the towel, beside me.
Two days later he was already running around, but still couldn't jump much. Today, I let him out on the balcony - he has an eight feet tall watch tower there. In about 0.0000000000064239 nanosecond he was already on the very top of it, just watching the neighbourhood, like nothing ever happened. Now, he's jumping around just like before the operation, and remains as interested in things, and games he loves, as before, but he doesn't play as much. I am very happy that he is still as crazy, as he was before, haha. Another thing to notice, is that he doesn't use his claws any more, and even when he does, he is not using them with force on me, or on his toy on a rope. Previously, his claws would go for the kill every single time, but now he's much more considerate with his power. It's not like he's weak, it's more like he controls his claws, and teeth much more accurately, and not swatting them around like there's no tomorrow, like he used to. Very interesting, isn't it? Another interesting thing is that he started eating much less, than he did before the operation. I was really worried about him overeating, but somehow, he self-regulates that by himself. What do you think about that?
All in all, he hasn't changed mentally, except he didn't try to kill me after playing with a plush toy this time. I tried that game only once for now, but usually, he would get so pumped up, he'd attack me as soon, as the toy is "dead". This time, he just left the toy, when he felt exhausted. He also doesn't try to hump his toys any more. He also started licking my face much more frequently!

Thank you for all your thoughts and comments on this reply! I highly appreciate all your insights, and ideas. Thanks! <3

[Ruth B]

Glad to hear he is getting back to normal, and to a less aggressive normal.

it sounds like he took a few days to recover from the anesthetic as much as anything, it would explain the initial weakness almost more than the pain would. The more mature the cat when neutered the bigger the operation is so a bit of discomfort afterwards is to be expected, and not jumping for a while is a good thing. When I was a child, one of the family cats went in to be spayed, we had her home and with in minutes she went and jumped on the sideboard tearing several of her stitches.

As far as the eating is concerned, a lot of cats will self regulate while younger, some can start to put on weight as they get older and are less active but still eat the same, and of cause there are the ex strays and ferals that have lived a life not knowing when the next meal will appear and will eat everything put in front of them.

It sounds like he is now going from strength to strength. I assume that is him in your avatar, he certainly looks a handsome lad.

[Meow]

Unfortunately, neutering my cat didn't help. He still becomes aggressive towards me during our play with a plush toy, as soon, as it stops moving. I try to startle him with loud claps, and it helps, but just for a moment. He then comes back, after a few seconds, with new attempts. When he's not playing, he's very sweet, and always wants to sleep on my tummy whenever he sees me sitting on a chair, or lying in my bed. Spaying didn't help with his out of control aggression during our games.

[Lilith]

Give him chance.

His testosterone levels won't go down overnight and at the moment he'll be the same cat as before neutering. It can take a good few weeks, if not months, to see a dramatic change in older males, but he'll get there. He'll also grow twice as big and handsome - he's a beautiful cat.

For the present I'd cut out the games with the plush toy or any rough-housing as it's only serving to arouse him, and leave him frustrated without knowing why. You can still give him lots of affection and attention without any boisterous stuff. In fact now is the time to teach him to be gentle.

Good on you for neutering him - I promise you he WILL become gentler; I had a middle-aged feral tom move in with me and he WAS aggressive, but after neutering he gradually gentled down. Good luck