Blackie is making himself bleed again ....

[Jan]

On another thread about bald spots on cats, my last post indicated that I believed the scratching allergy with Blackie had been cured with Dexafort as it was on the last occasion. Wrote too soon... I caught him scratching again this morning and he's taken the scab off that was forming on one of the blood marks. Grrrr!

I don't know what to do about this - except to follow the vet's instructions ... ie take him back in 10 days from the time he had the injection - or sooner if it gets a lot worse.. I've thought about keeping him indoors, seeing how the vet believes its a seasonal allergy problem, but that would stress him out so much, it would only cause another problem.

Thankfully we're going down to NSomerset in a few weeks time for 3 months, so perhaps the change of environment will help.

[Cussypat1974]

Ah no, I am sorry to hear he is scratching again! Are you sure it wasn't just to take the scab off? Is he still scratching? I would follow vet advice on this. I told the story on your other thread of a severe case, which turned out to be a different allergy.

From what you said, your vet seems very good and he/she has the full history. It can be frustrating dealing with these things, and allergy tests CAN be done, but cost a fortune. A few doses of steroids might be what is needed to sort him out. My caution with steroids is only with long-term use and really only when the odd dodgy vet will use them to mask a problem caused by something unrelated. Steroids are anti-inflammatories and should be used as such..... Not to mask something else, which sadly can be the case with a MINORITY of vets.

[greenkitty]

Have you tried a short stint in a comfy collar to allow the scab time to heal over properly?

[Jan]

Ah no, I am sorry to hear he is scratching again! Are you sure it wasn't just to take the scab off? Is he still scratching? I would follow vet advice on this. I told the story on your other thread of a severe case, which turned out to be a different allergy.

From what you said, your vet seems very good and he/she has the full history. It can be frustrating dealing with these things, and allergy tests CAN be done, but cost a fortune. A few doses of steroids might be what is needed to sort him out. My caution with steroids is only with long-term use and really only when the odd dodgy vet will use them to mask a problem caused by something unrelated. Steroids are anti-inflammatories and should be used as such..... Not to mask something else, which sadly can be the case with a MINORITY of vets.

You could be right Cussypat about Blackie scratching the scab off ... another scab has formed - bigger this time and (touch wood) he doesn't appear to have taken this off .... yet. However, the bald patch is slightly bigger than it was. He will be going back to the vet on Monday for her to have another look at him and give any further treatment if she feels it necessary.

I kept a diary last year of all Blackie's issues and he developed this scratching problem at exactly the same time of year.

You're right - it is frustrating, not least because we had friends over the weekend all telling me what a beautiful, shiny coat he has (except for the bald patch!).

[Crewella]

Let's hope he manages not to scratch it off again.

By the way, good idea to keep a diary. xx

[Jan]

Have you tried a short stint in a comfy collar to allow the scab time to heal over properly?

The one time Blackie had a collar on him for a bald patch he'd scratched over one of his eyes, he became so stressed - panting and continually walking backwards to try and get it off, that we removed it.

At the time, the vet we saw (and who has now left) thought he had a ringworm infection (the culture came back negative) but within a week or so, Blackie had emergency treatment to drain his bladder off as unbeknown to us, he had stress related cystitis. After this, the scratching over the eye stopped and has never recurred there since.

[Cussypat1974]

I was going to suggest a collar too, temporarily, but it isn't an option of it causes so much stress in him! Sme cats seem to cope well with collars while others just lose the plot entirely! I have used them on my semi-feral Ghostie when she has scratched her face raw due to ear mites..... She copes amazingly well (especially since she is half wild!).

The diary keeping is a fantastic way to go, for ALL of us. I do try.... But am pretty useless to be honest! I know exactly what health issues each cat has or is prone to, but dates are beyond me lol. Fair play to you.

I know when I took the collar off Ghostie last year, she took off the remained of her scab and there was a bigger bald patch, which just needed time to sort itself out. Hopefully Blackie is the same. Poor Ghostie is so terrified at the vets, I hesitate to bring her if I can handle it myself. She has been through a few surgeries now and has had cancer (almost lost a claw, but it hadn't spread thank God - imagine having to declaw her to save her life eh?), so I am so happy she tolerates the collar reasonably well!

[Janey]

Our foster cat recently had a bald patch on her neck which she was scratching and making bleed. At first we thought she'd been fighting but there was no infection just open wounds which wouldn't heal and getting bigger and balder. I bathed the patch with water, or salt water, unfortunately it wasn't healing in places because of her scratching. So we put an Elizabethan collar on her but she hated it and walked with her belly to the floor so we took that straight off. We bought her a 'comfy collar' the next day and kept her indoors for about 5 days. She was absolutely fine with the collar and used it like a pillow, the only thing she was bothered about was having to stay in! Then I applied Stronghold and as we were suspecting flea allergy (I did speak to the vets on the phone too btw and said we'd take her in if it hadn't healed) about 2 days later the skin had healed, she now just has a bald patch with fur growing back. I doubt the skin would have healed without the comfy collar though.

[Cussypat1974]

Janet, that is pretty much what happened to my Ghostie. She is VERY prone to ear mites and they seem to come earlier every year. being feral, it is difficult to treat her with spot-ons. I do my best to keep on top of it, but many times the opened pro fender has gone onto a different cat as Ghostie has fled lol!

[Jan]

Took Blackie back to the vets this morning. Some fur has grown back but due to a very small scab having formed in a different place on the bald patch, which meant he has scratched himself again since she last saw him 2 weeks ago, another shot of Dexafort was given. She examined him for fleas + ear mites - none - but then noticed he had taken a lot of fur off near his abdomen - fortunately no red scratch marks.

I'd assumed this was due to his 'seasonal allergy' as he's always laying down in bushes/grass etc. So was a bit surprised when she said it might well be due to having urinating problems. I told her that Blackie always urinates overnight and I've seen him doing it in the garden (he has a favourite patch at the end of it). Her answer to that was 'well, they can't tell you if they're having problems' (true of course). Her suggestion was to give him half RC renal and half Hills urinary stress diet - as well as the Cystophan + lots of added water to his food. Admit I'm no fan of Hills or RC food - but have followed advice to give Blackie a few pouches of RC food every week as he's in v early stage CKD.

As we're heading down to NSomerset next week, she suggested we take him into the vet down there (who has known Blackie since a kitten) and get him checked again in 2 weeks time.

Her view about Blackie possibly having urination probs causing him to scratch his abdomen did confuse me a bit though. Appreciate other views. Thanks.

[Crewella]

I've not experienced it, but I have heard mention of it before. It's at point 4 on here:

http://www.catexpert.co.uk/cats/overgro ... s-in-cats/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I hope you do manage to get him comfortable. xx

[Jan]

I've not experienced it, but I have heard mention of it before. It's at point 4 on here:

http://www.catexpert.co.uk/cats/overgro ... s-in-cats/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I hope you do manage to get him comfortable. xx

Thanks for this link Crewella. When Blackie had his 2 bouts of stress related cystitis, scratching fur off his abdomen wasn't one of the signs. He used his tray this morning and I saw him urinating in the garden this afternoon as well.

I did notice him pulling at his fur down below before the bald patch on his shoulder appeared but hadn't realised it had come off as much as it had. Its the first time he's ever done this - at least in the 2 years we've cared for him.

When we returned from the vets, Blackie went out and I now know where he spends time. There is a very overgrown patch not far from the back of our house. I'd not be surprised at all if laying there has caused some skin irritation from all the grass pollens and whatever else is in that heap So .. that lot will be cleared.

Blackie has definitely learnt that scratching his shoulder will grab my attention ... as in when he comes into the bedroom and if I don't immediately get up, he will start scratching knowing I'll leap out of bed to stop him.

I'm hoping that once we get down to NSomerset, in a different garden environment, different plants, soil etc, the problem will cease ... for the time being anyway.

Both OH and me have come to love him to bits ... something I never thought would happen 2 years ago and if he's uncomfortable, then so am I. Maybe we give him too much attention.

[Cussypat1974]

Oh I just LOVE the way he has trained you to jump up out of bed, ha ha ha! What rascals they are eh?

Over grooming the lower abdomen is a classic sign of urinary discomfort. Your vet seems to be exploring every possible avenue here, which is good. You saw him urinating, but that doesn't mean there was no discomfort.... Also, if you can actually SEE the urine (not easy I know!) it can give SOME indications. Normal cat urine should smell (we all know that eh?!) but be transparent. You should actually be able to read a newspaper through a tube of the stuff. If there is LOADS of blood it will look red, but there can be blood in there that can only be detected by tests. Usually, any UTI is pretty far along by the time the cat shows any signs at all.

You will get a second opinion on holiday anyway, and it is nice that your vet suggested it. Do be aware of the singe of urinary obstruction, just in case though, as these can be life threatening and happen very suddenly. It is if he CANNOT do a wee you should be in a panic and rushing to the nearest vet.

I am no fan of Hills or RC either and have had mixed results with them. I swear by RC kitten formula for hand rearing, and actually panic if I cannot get hold of it when needed. That is just based on my own experiences with the various formulae available here in Ireland. I only once saw a good result with Hills prescription food to be honest, and that cat had lymphoma so was doomed anyway. The hills food did stop his diarrhoea though, and was the only thing that did.

[Jan]

We were in a 'life or death' situation with Blackie's stress related cystitis back in early April 2014 when I had no knowledge about the condition at all or symptoms. Poor little mite must have been in such discomfort/pain and I felt terrible for not realising it sooner. Fortunately there were no stones or crystals so the vet informed us.

The 2nd bout (2 months later) I was more on the ball - Blackie came into the room where I was sitting on 2 consecutive afternoons giving a crying miaow (seeing how I hadn't picked up his signal on the first afternoon ), I rushed out to his litter tray, saw paw marks only and before he could turn round, he was up the vets again.

On both occasions there was no fur loss from his abdomen but I take your point that it is a symptom and I'll be keeping a close eye on him and his belly!

Blackie had a full blood + urine test in early March when he had to undergo a dental to remove a broken tooth and at that time, all things were 'normal' except for the bad news that he has the beginnings of CKD. He also had a urine test in early January (for a minor cystitis discomfort due to us taking down the large Xmas tree + decs ) and when I looked at the phial before taking it in, I reckon I could have read a newspaper through it

The vet in Backwell, NS, doesn't think much of the Hills/RC food in general and it was she who advised me to take Blackie off of it last October, because she felt he'd been on it long enough (so did the cat!) and believed it was far more important for him to have as much water down him as possible. She did agree that he should stay on Cystophan for life. However, must be said she didn't go much on Blackie's beloved Felix either!!

Have to admit that I value her opinion over the one we see locally, not least because she's known Blackie since a kitten and secondly - perhaps more importantly to me, she doesn't start giving me the answers to questions before I've finished asking them. She will listen, think for a few seconds and give me her considered reply.

[Cussypat1974]

Ah yes, a vet who listens is worth a fortune eh? it does give the impression eh are just going by a book when they just follow standard protocol, and no animal or case is actually based on protocol, especially cats!

I am no vet, but I would think that water is a high priority for any cat (esp males) with a tendency to kidney issues or cystitis. I also don't rate felix since eh changed their formula. It suddenly gave all my gang the runs!

Have you tried burns food? I don't know if they make a wet food for cats, but the dry food is good for cats with diarrhoea in my experience.

I once rushed Mama Puss to the vet as she was struggling to wee in the tray. Out of hours emergency stuff, as her abdomen was all swollen. Vet was VERY concerned. Se was kept in, sedated, tested, x-rayed and it turned out she just had a STUFFED tummy and very mild cystitis, which was cleared up with antibiotics.

The vet didn't charge me for the hospitalisation!

[Jan]

Happy to read that Mama Puss was ok ... I know about rushing a cat to the emergency vet - as we did on Easter Sunday at 11pm last year because I was sure (and terrified) that Blackie was having cystitis troubles again 2 weeks after his first critical bout. After an hour's wait, we were reassured Blackie's bladder was nowhere near full and he must be fooling us by urinating in the garden! Those brief 5 minutes with the vet cost £141 Still, it was worth it - I could enjoy Easter Monday!

Whatever changes have been made to Felix don't seem to have affected Blackie at all .... he was fed on the wet pouches for 10 years when my mother cared for him. Haven't heard of Burns cat food so will look it up. I hadn't heard of lots of other cat food when we took him on ... Lily's Kitchen, Thrive, Hi-Life, Nature's Menu - he's eaten them all and can definitely say diarrhoea doesn't seem to be one of the his problems! At the moment, I'm giving him half Felix + sometimes half Hills renal or half Beophar- a low phosphorous food for his CKD Stage 1. The lamb Beophar has gone down very well - for the time being.

We had some friends round the other evening and one of them sat in 'Blackie's chair' (happens to be the best + most expensive one in the lounge of course!). The cat had us in stitches of laughter because he kept coming into the room and sitting in front of the friend giving him 'the stare' as if saying 'You are sitting in MY chair - get off' When giving 'the stare' didn't work, eventually, he sat in front of the friend and kept looking across at me as if to say 'Well - what are YOU going to do about this? Tell him to let me sit there". It gave us a lot of laughs but Blackie apparently wasn't amused

As far as his scratching problem goes - everything x'd ... the last scab has gone and fur is regrowing ... again

[Crewella]

Blackie and his chair did make me laugh!

I'm glad his skin's looking better, paws crossed. xx

[Jan]

Here we go round the merry-go-round once more. Just a week after having his Dexafort, he's back scratching the same spot again .. this is about the same length of time after the previous injection - ok for a week, then back to scratching. Some fur is growing over part of it, but a new, small bald patch has appeared right by the original one. No skin is broken yet, but can almost guarantee that within the next couple of days it will be. He surely can't go on having these Dexfort injections every couple of weeks.

I think a comfy collar is going to be the only way to stop him. Everyone who sees him say what a beautiful coat he has ... if only he's stop scratching that one patch on his left shoulder.

Looked at his belly last night - fur seems to be regrowing in patches. But he clearly didn't like me looking at it - when my OH put him back on all 4's, Blackie gave me the 'stare' and growled at me long and hard - as if I was another cat!

[Cussypat1974]

The chair anecdote is hilarious, but I am sorry to hear he is scratching again.....

I wouldn't be happy putting any animal on long term steroids as I have said, but sometimes it is a last resort measure..... He can't wear a collar forever either.....

I have used human piriton on cats in the past, so it might be worth asking your vet. They are non-steroidal so don't depress the immune system in the same way at all. They do have other side effects (as does any drug). Sme cats tolerate it well, others are zonked by them, same as humans. They have no effect on my husband but are like sleeping pills for me lol. They can be bought over the counter but don't try them without discussing it with a vet, and getting the dosage right, naturally.

I used them on a SEVERELY neglected and immunocompromised cat a few years ago and they saved his life. His skin was so bad we were going to euthanise him. He looked like he had been scalded with acid or boiling water and was covered in weeping sores. It was horrific! The piriton calmed his itching long enough for him to heal, and eliminating grain from his diet solved the root of the problem. Steroids would have killed him as he had so many other issues and infections to battle.

[meriad]

Jan, have you had a blood test done to see what he's reacting to?

My brothers cat (now sadly missing) Merlin had an allergic reaction to something and we thought it was foods so cut out all sorts of things. The vet they went to kept on insisting it wasn't a flea allergy but eventually he was referred to a dermatologist to did tests and confirmed Merlin was reacting to fleas as well as house mites and house dust. The worst is that the original vet as insistent it wasn't fleas and recommended a comfy collar and keeping him indoors; all of which just made the matter worse. We now know why - it was winter, heating on which made the mites irritate him even more.

Merlin was eventually put onto a monthly dose of Comfortis and a daily dose of prednisolone. We managed to get him off the pred but woe was if you ever missed the Comfortis; he's quickly flare up again. It's a huge tablet, usually given to dogs, but it worked for Merlin.

If you've got insurance maybe check with your other vet about having a dermatology referral for Blackie

[Jan]

Due to circs beyond our control, it seems we may not now be going down to NSomerset until next Tuesday which means I'll probably be taking Blackie back to our local vet before the w/end.

Blackie was given Comfortis last year when he had a scratching problem as I usually use Advocate but we were told not to use it for 2/3 months until his scabs had healed and fur regrown. I won't go into the problems we had getting him to take it - even crushed up in Lick-e-Licks

He is due his flea treatment about now as it happens.

I'll make a note of the suggestions made, Meriad + Cussypat and speak to the vet about them. Thanks for the tips. The vet did check for fleas and found none - not even any flea dirt. But to make it easier to double check I put an old white pillowcase on top of the blanket in the greenhouse where he usually sleeps during the day. The little devil refused to go in there and the moment I removed the pillowcase (just now), he's happily laying on the green blanket!

Have come to the conclusion that Blackie must be 'left-handed' as he only uses his left front paw to scratch his left shoulder

[Janey]

Hi Jan,

I used spot on Stronghold, bought from my vets, on my 'scratchy/bleedy' cat and it's cleared hers up (along with the comfy collar and being kept in a few days - see above post). I couldn't see any fleas on her either but after discussion with my vets it is possible she was bitten by a flea/insect and this could've triggered it. She is due for another actually, I've seen her scratching a bit again. I'm not one to use many flea treatments as we've only had one lot of fleas in 25 years. However, it seems this one needs them fairly often to prevent it.
Best of luck with sorting out your Blackie it must be awful for them.

[Cussypat1974]

Merida, I didn't know comfortis was safe for cats, so good to know! I have used in on Kara the dog who is also very sensitive to fleas. It is the only thi g that works for her. Spot-ons have just left the fleas hopping on her in the past!

Flea allergies can be odd, in that they appear even when no fleas can be detected, so that is a defi tie possibility for Blackie. Keep us posted as to how the vet visit goes!

[Jan]

We managed to get down to NSomerset on Saturday night and took Blackie in to see the local vet this morning.

Firstly, she weighed Blackie - 5.53kg - he'd gone up 0.4kg since January but she didn't seem bothered about this particularly.

The first real discussion was about Blackie's early stage kidney disease. Unlike the local vet in Kent where we live, this vet thought that at this time, he could go on being fed the food he likes (Felix ) but that I should add a phosphate binder to his meals (Pronefra). She didn't think it necessary for him to go on either a Hills or RC renal diet at the moment - she certainly doesn't push these prescription diets at all. She explained that the USG of 1.012 might not be an accurate reading due to Blackie having so much extra water added to his food because of his cystitis problems. However, she recommended that another full urine test be done in 3 months + blood tests every 6 months.

Now to the scratching problem .... it seems to have dissipated somewhat - the vet checked for fleas - thoroughly - Blackie howled a bit at how deep she was combing his fur but none were found. The bald patch on his shoulder is definitely sprouting fur now (long may that continue ).

Then I mentioned about the lack of fur on his belly. As Blackie is urinating well, she said this problem is not related to his bladder issues. She was reluctant to 'second guess' - could be some kind of allergy but in her opinion it was more likely to do with stress - the stress of shuttling between 2 homes every few months. Blackie was most probably licking his fur off down below as a 'comfort'. I now recall that this problem started not long after we returned to our home in Kent after spending 4+half months down in NSomerset from October 2014 to February 2015. The life we lead of shuttling between 2 homes for months at a time is not ideal for a very anxious, easily stressed cat - and I feel terrible about it at times. To us he seems to settle back in either homes well, particularly down here in NS where he lived for 10 years with my mother, but cats can hide what they feel extremely well.

Then we spoke about the soreness on his upper gum following the extraction of his upper left canine 3 months ago and the fact that the vet who did this said he may have extract the lower one to stop the irritation. Thankfully (to me) this vet said she would be reluctant to remove the lower canine altogether given Blackie's age but if the soreness became infected, then she felt the way to go was to file the lower canine down a bit to stop the irritation. I've never had a lower tooth removed myself and would be very reluctant to go through it at my age!!

She trimmed the claws on his front paws - and then we were all done. All in all a successful visit. Blackie didn't enjoy it much but behaved very well

[Cussypat1974]

T hat sounds like a very good, very thorough vet to me! Yes, licking the fur down below can be an I dictator of stress. I hadn't realised you had to move him around so much, but imagine it would be very unsettling for most cats.

Have you tried using feliway diffusers? They are amazingly good at helping stress related issues. There are things you can get to add to food but they are scientifically unproven, unlike feliway. It comes in spray form too, but I have only ever used the diffuser, and have seen remarkable results in a matter of minutes.

[Jan]

I've tried everything to minimize Blackie's stress ... the vet here in NS suggested upping his cystophan to 2 x day for 5 days before the journey and 5 days after arrival, as well as giving him Zyklene twice a day for the same period. I spray his basket profusely with Feliway in the hope that he'll be calmer and get a bit sleepy at some point in the 3 hour journey and I use the plug-ins (both Feliway + Pet Remedy) around the house after we arrive. I don't know what else I can do - any suggestions welcome!

His howling on the back seat when we first made these trips 2 years ago was so bad and upset me so much to hear it that I now have his basket on my lap throughout the journey. The first time I did this, Blackie hardly made a sound throughout the first back + forth journeys. I thought we'd cracked it. Subsequent journeys haven't proved as successful as the first but they've been a lot better than having him in the back. As long as he can see my OH and me, he seems a bit calmer but probably still stressed.

[Crewella]

I'm glad you all made it down there OK - your vet down there does sound very thorough, and the results could have been a lot worse.

Hopefully you can find ways to ease the stress for him, and maybe as time goes on he will get more used to the pattern. Do you move 'his' things back and forth with him? Maybe it would help if his bowls, beds, blankets, scratching post and other stuff stayed the same wherever he is?

[Jan]

Hi Helen (it is Helen?)

Not kidding you .. when we pack the car, its like packing for a child as far as the cat's stuff goes Bowls, cushions he sleeps on, two blankets - scratching mat (he's never used the scratching post my mother bought him) 2 litter trays and surrounding mats, not to mention his medicines and food (though we buy more food down here in NS). So I think we have everything covered but if you can suggest anything else, I'm more than open to them!

Unfortunately, we have to put Blackie in a cattery for a week from 12 June so all this paraphernalia will be taken with him. I'm dreading it because when we took him in last November, he howled like a banshee as I walked away from his pen - I was in tears before I got to the door. At least I have the knowledge that Blackie is a 'special favourite' of the cattery owner as he spent so much time there back in 2013 when my mother was in/out of hospital before finally going into a care home. She was in tears when we finally took Blackie away to live with us in Kent.

As for his USG result, I'm now wondering if my memory is serving me well as I don't actually have a copy of his urine results, unlike the blood ones. In any case, it'll be almost 3 months since the test so I'll get another done this coming week.

We now have another problem ... after a couple of meals, Blackie has decided that he hates the Pronefra I mix in with it. As I need to add as much moisture to his food as poss, it looks like we will have to give it to him by mouth .... oh what joy for me - this is a cat who most definitely cannot be called 'compliant' or co-operative .

[Crewella]

Ah .... you've got that one covered then, it was just a thought!

I'm sure he'll be fine at the cattery, it really does help if you know that they get 'special' attention, and at least it's a familiar place for him.

Good luck with the meds. I'm sure, deep down, Blackie appreciates all the care you take of him!

Helen xx

[Jan]

Helen ... luck is definitely what we need. It isn't going well ... It might be easier to strangle him

Jan x