worried - Denzel scratched by FIV positive Stray "Terry"

[charlie_rabbit01]

Hi

I'm having a bit of a panic, some of you may know we did a good deed and rescued a stray cat affectionately known as Terry, he has been taken away by cats protection to be checked over, and it has turned out that he is FIV positive.

Cats protection have emailed me to tell me this and advise that I get him tested.

I'm really worried.

[SarahT1 [PLLE]]

Oh, poor little Terry, what a rough time he has had of it till he found you.

There are lots of lovely people on here with fantastic advice re FIV furbabes. I know it's worrying, but I think all you have to do at the moment is take CP's advice and get Denzel tested. Hopefully there is nothing to worry about, but if he has been infected, there's lots of brilliant advice that people will offer and apparently lots of recent research that has been really supportive of caring for FIV cats without the fear mongering that some rescues/vets have generated in the past.

Fusses to your little boy.

[booktigger]

FIV can only be spread by a deep bite, so the chances of Denzel being infected if he has only been scratched is very minimal.

[greenkitty]

As Booktigger says it's transmitted through bites so minimal risk. There is lots of information on the FIV page if you wanted to reassure yourself.

[charlie_rabbit01]

Not sure what will happen to Terry next he was due to be rehomed.

The scratch was small on his head just inside his ear. Wasn't something if it was on me I'd wear a plaster for just a bit of savlon cream.

My heart stopped when I read the email. They very kindly offered to pay for it but I'm waiting for a call from the vets to see how much it is.

My baby is only 11 months.

But I'm still glad we helped Terry.

[moira]

Please do not panic. As others have said FIV is very difficult to transmit and it is usually deep cuts from fighting, unneutered Tom cats. See Glasgow Vet School info:

http://www.gla.ac.uk/schools/vet/cad/in ... yvirusfiv/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I hope Terry is OK. FIV should NEVER be a reason to pts.

Bless you for caring for him.

[charlie_rabbit01]

Terry was an un-neutered tom.

Vet's have said we cant get him tested for 8 weeks (he only got scratched last week) they have also said a small scratch can do it.

[HRHFluffy]

As others have said there is no need to panic. FIV is present in a cat's saliva and is only passed on via a deep bite wound. A scratch from Terry is extremely unlikely to have given Denzel FIV. I understand your concern as I was worried when I took on Harvey who had been a stray and turned out to have FIV. The vets all advised he could pass it onto Fluffy via sharing of bowls and litter trays etc but they were wrong. They tried to convince me to have him pts. I had been in a panic until I did my own research on it. He and Fluffy lived together, shared bowls and litter trays and had the occasionally swipe at each other (mainly from Fluffy to Harvey) until I lost Harvey last year to cancer.

You did a wonderful thing in looking after Terry. My concern now is for Terry. Many Cat's Protection automatically put to sleep FIV cats.

I've just read your update re what the vets have said. Unless Terry has bitten Denzel without your knowing it, then it is unlikely to be passed on by a small scratch. This just highlights how ill informed the vets are I'm afraid and that is so frustrating.

Why not contact this website :

http://www.catwork.co.uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The sanctuary is run by a wonderful couple who would be only too pleased to advise you. They are happy to answer emails. They helped me with Harvey. They have many years experience of dealing with vets and rescues who were all set to pts FIV cats. Please don't just take your vets word for it. I know that seems to be going against the grain but it is frightening just how many vets are out of date and wrongly advising owners to have their cats pts.

[greenkitty]

But Terry would still have had to have bitten Denzel to transmit the virus which he didn't he only scratched him.

[charlie_rabbit01]

Thanks all for the info, I shall also contact Catwork.

I'm waiting for another call from the vets, to see if:

a - Denzel can still go outside for the next 8 weeks

b - can he stay at my mother in laws with a senior FIV negative neutered male

[charlie_rabbit01]

I think the shelter have homed FIV cats in the past.

[HRHFluffy]

It will be interesting to see what your vets say on those two points. I can sort of guess though.

But the answer to both should be "yes".

Even if it was highly likely that Denzel had FIV, then unless he is a very aggressive cat who is going to go outside fighting other cats and who is going to fight an older cat at your mother in laws, the answer to both points would still be "yes". However please bear in mind that to your knowledge Denzel has only been scratched, not bitten. Please don't rely on what your vets have to say. Many FIV owners would tell you exactly the same. That is because we have all had to stand up to our vets and protect our cats from their out of date facts.

I really hope that the shelter do find a home for Terry.

[charlie_rabbit01]

I've also contacted cats protection who have Terry to see what will happen to him and also what they think on those points.

Denzel is a typical curious siamese, Terry only scratched him as he was trapped in our home (waiting for CPS) and Denzel walked into the room where Terry was being kept and Terry scratched him I guess feeling a little cornered.

Denzel is a big wuss and often wave his paw at another cat then flop on his belly or run away (depending on the other cats reaction) Tigger (mother in laws cat) is quite shy himself and most of the time keeps his distance from Denzel he gets fed up of Denzel's playing growls/hisses at him and retreats to his room.

Denzel isn't then brave enough to get too close, I be extremely surprised if Sausage (our ahem "pet" name for Denzel) scratched anyone he's usually just egging them on and more likely to get scratched himself.

[charlie_rabbit01]

CPS said:

Please don't panic. Yes, you will need to get Denzel tested of course.

If it were my cat, I would still let him outside, unless he is a fighter of course. It's difficult to keep them in I know, but if you are worried then this may be your only course of action until he can be tested.

If he does not fight with your mother in laws cat then all should be ok. As long as you follow basic hygiene care i.e. washing bowls, not sharing same bowl etc.. Of course your mother in law may not be happy about this so it may be worth her reading the pdf leaflet we recommended.

Our cats probably come in to contact with many FIV cats , during the day and night and we would never know and there are probably many FIV+ family pets that have never been tested, as they would not be seen 'at risk'.

I don't know if this is of any help and appreciate your concern.

[charlie_rabbit01]

think its going to be one of those weeks Denzel already gave us a fright on Saturday, because Terry had ticks and we dont/didnt treat Denzel as a matter of course we frontlined him on Saturday morning and he came tearing into the room with saliva bubbles and shaking his head violently, my first thought was omg he's dying! then told myself to not be ridiculous its probably the frontline which I promptly googled to find yes if they lick frontline it can produce excess salivation and if symptoms persisted he was to go to the vets, he was fine a couple of minutes later but kept trying to lick it so he was then doomed with the cone of shame (I knew there was a reason to keep it).

[HRHFluffy]

Overall the reply from the CPS seems reasonable.

I was quite impressed with it except for this bit:

If he does not fight with your mother in laws cat then all should be ok. As long as you follow basic hygiene care i.e. washing bowls, not sharing same bowl etc.. Of course your mother in law may not be happy about this so it may be worth her reading the pdf leaflet we recommended.

They are definitely wrong here with the issue of cleaning and sharing of bowls. I wouldn't bother showing your mother in law the pdf leaflet as this will clearly be incorrect also. Sadly this same info is what they will be telling would be new owners of Terry which will put them off if they have another cat at home. Trying to stop cats sharing bowls is difficult if there is more than one. And totally unnecessary where FIV is concerned.

I know these organisations along with the vets are well respected but they are wrong. You will find more reassurance getting advice from the people who have had years of experience with FIV cats.

[charlie_rabbit01]

They are definitely wrong here with the issue of cleaning and sharing of bowls. I wouldn't bother showing your mother in law the pdf leaflet as this will clearly be incorrect also. Sadly this same info is what they will be telling would be new owners of Terry which will put them off if they have another cat at home. Trying to stop cats sharing bowls is difficult if there is more than one. And totally unnecessary where FIV is concerned.

I know these organisations along with the vets are well respected but they are wrong. You will find more reassurance getting advice from the people who have had years of experience with FIV cats.

Would the saliva on the food etc not be a problem? (asking completely out of curiosity and a lack of knowledge).

this is the leaflet:

http://www.cats.org.uk/uploads/document ... ency_Virus_(FIV" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)_and_Feline_Leukaemia_Virus_(FeLV).pdf


Oh any idea if I need to contact the insurance people?

[HRHFluffy]

Saliva on the food is not a problem. The reasons for this are:

1. Whilst the virus is present in the saliva, once it is out of the body, it is fragile and doesn't survive for longer than a few seconds.

2. If the cat takes in the saliva through the mouth, this isn't dangerous because the mucous membrane is a very good barrier which prevents the virus getting into the blood stream

For me personally it was the second point here that really convinced me there was absolutely nothing to worry about where sharing of food bowls is concerned. Even mutual grooming is fine and playfighting.

I'm glad that you are looking into this and asking questions. That is far better than just accepting what you've been told by the vets or the rescues. I will answer as many questions best I can. I really would encourage you to look up that website and maybe contact Bob and Barbara. They have a wealth of knowledge.

I wasn't successful at opening that link. Might be my computer.

I'm not sure how insurance companies view FIV as I didn't have Harvey insured. I wouldn't contact them yet until you have tested Denzel, if you are still wanting to go ahead with that. Don't feel pressurised into having him tested. It is entirely up to you. My vet tried to get me to have Fluffy tested but I saw no need. If she has FIV it is certainly not from Harvey. In the early days of us having her she was bitten twice by an aggressive stray. Probably the same one that infected Harvey.

Hope this helps. Try not to worry.

[Hazel]

Hi, I haven't got any FIV experience but just wanted to say me & Mika are thinking about you. We hope Denzel will not have been infected and from the sounds of it it is very very unlikely, but if he has it wont be the end of the world. You have done a wonderful thing for Terry and he didn't mean to scratch Denzel. Your sausage sounds like such a sweet natured cat, my Siamese is a little horror! x

[moira]

I echo what HRH Fluffy has said. I have a number of FIV+ and FIV- cats living together.

Re sharing food bowls. As a very fragile virus it only survives out of the body for a few seconds. Therefore, the chances of the virus spreading this way, or by mutual grooming, is very remote.

What people often do not consider is that if their cat is an outdoor cat it is far more likely to catch FIV from a neighbour's cat/stray tom cat/ferral cat in the area that it might fight with than it is from a cat in its own household.

[charlie_rabbit01]

Thanks HRHFluffy, the leaflet that CPS sent me worried me, but i've since googled a few things read the link above, read the cat chatters guide and both of us are feeling better about it.

Hazel my little boy is very precious and fits the bill perfectly, he has made moments and charges round the flat grizzling and growling and he play fights with us but most of the time he's parading around like he owns the place demanding you move so he can sit comfortably.

Hi Moira thanks for the advice, I don't think there is likely to be any mutual grooming but Sausage cat can take a whole day to eat his breakfast whereas Tigger scoffs his down in one go, which is why I'm wondering about the food thing, they do get it in separate bowls in different rooms and Denzel hates the felix that Tigger eats but I know Tigger like to finish off Denzel's Waitrose food. I'm hoping someone else finishing his dinner will teach him to eat it properly!

We spoke to my mother in law last night and she's happy to have him still but has decided as a precaution when she's not in to keep them separate which we always did before anyway as they don't like each other much and though they've never fought we'd never like them to do it when we're not in.

The vet said a scratch could do it, but not to panic and there are lots of myths around the issue.

Terry is unable to go to the home they found but they will find him another one.

[meriad]

I'm glad Terry is being rehomed to someone

and keeping Denzel separate to your MIL's cat is a good idea anyway, esp if they don't like each other

[charlie_rabbit01]

I'm glad Terry is being rehomed to someone

and keeping Denzel separate to your MIL's cat is a good idea anyway, esp if they don't like each other

When someones home they are together, but generally Tigger just gets fed up of Denzel which I'm not surprised Tigger is a senior now and I'd get fed up of a bouncy kitten too.

I shall update with news when I have it.

[charlie_rabbit01]

I think I know the answer but just want to check, obvious;y FIV is feline and cannot be transfered to humans i presume therefore it cannot be transfered to rabbits?

[moira]

Correct. FIV cannot be transmitted cross species - including rabbits.

[cedric]

may i ask, what happened next? did your cat get tested? was he negative?