Cat drinking lots...

[Guinevere]

Hi Catchatters,

I have a 13yr old cat (Guinevere) who has begun to drink a lot of water over the past few weeks.

She seems okay in herself but am just wondering if I should be concerned about it as I know it can be a symptom of diabetes in humans.

She has never had any health problems (but she is overweight) so I am not sure what I should anticipate or expect now that she is getting on a bit! Thankfully, I have her insured in anticipation of any "old age" troubles.

Many thanks for any advice.

[Crewella]

Drinking lots of water can be a sign of kidney problems in cats, and especially at her age it would be worth getting her checked over at the vets. I've had several elderly cats that had failing kidneys in old age - it can often be managed with a change in diet and mine went on for a good few years after diagnosis, so don't panic, but do get it looked at so you can deal with any potential issues promptly.

[Guinevere]

Many thanks Crewella.

I will make an appointment at the vet and have her checked over.

[MarkB]

I agree with Helen. Other things such as Hyperthyroidism and Diabetes (and I am sure there are others things) can cause it. One of mine was diagnosed with Diabetes Insipidus early this year (after wrongly being diagnosed with kidney disease previously) so best to get it checked. Most of these things can be controlled or slowed down with treatment.

[Guinevere]

Thanks Mark,

I have often wondered about her thyroid as she is overweight yet seems to eat much less than my neighbours 3 cats. I have previously asked the vet about it who said no (without doing tests) and put her on a Hills prescription diet for weight loss - thankfully she loved the food but barely lost any weight on it.

This time, I will ask for blood tests for everything. I will take her some time this week when I can get an ideal appointment time at the vet - she absolutely hates the car so I need to get her there and back quickly at a quiet time of day without too much stopping and starting or she gets sick.

[MarkB]

Good idea. It is fairly common for cats over about 10 to develop hyperthyroidism. One of mine is overweight and eats very little, but her thyroid is fine. My other one is on long-term meds for hyper-T as well as other meds for other issues)

Unfortunately 'full bloods' doesn't cover T4 (thyroid test), but it costs about £30 extra. I am amazed that your vet rules it out without testing. I appreciate vets that try to avoid unnecessary costs, but it is a good idea to give any cat over 10 a good 'MOT'

PS - My overweight cat was on Hill's R/D for several years with no real weigh loss. I tried other brands but she didn't like them. Instead, I gradually got her eating a mostly wet food diet, which she seems to prefer now anyway - she has a few James Wellbeloved Senior turkey biscuits, but isn't that fussed about them.

[Guinevere]

Thanks for the tip about the Thyroid Testing. Not sure why vet didn't suggest the test when I asked a few years back. Will request the full MOT. Her coat also looks a bit raggedy despite my daily brushings so something isn't quite right. She is like yours Mark, a big fluffy gorgeous Tortie!

I too took her off the Hills Diet partly due to cost and availability and put her back on her absolute favourite which is raw white fish for dinner each night (won't touch cod, haddock etc it has to be white fish which I buy in frozen fillets at Tesco). She alerts me around 6pm each evening and she purrs so loudly as she gobbles it up. During the day she grazes on biscuits, lately Royal Canin (Ageing 12+) and (Fit) which I only buy when there is an offer on. I haven't come across James Wellbeloved since moving to Ireland but she used to love those in the UK.

[Jan]

Good idea. It is fairly common for cats over about 10 to develop hyperthyroidism. One of mine is overweight and eats very little, but her thyroid is fine. My other one is on long-term meds for hyper-T as well as other meds for other issues)

Unfortunately 'full bloods' doesn't cover T4 (thyroid test), but it costs about £30 extra. I am amazed that your vet rules it out without testing. I appreciate vets that try to avoid unnecessary costs, but it is a good idea to give any cat over 10 a good 'MOT'

PS - My overweight cat was on Hill's R/D for several years with no real weigh loss. I tried other brands but she didn't like them. Instead, I gradually got her eating a mostly wet food diet, which she seems to prefer now anyway - she has a few James Wellbeloved Senior turkey biscuits, but isn't that fussed about them.

Thanks from me for this tip, Mark, about blood tests not covering everything. We're going to get Blackie to have the 'full works' as far as testing is concerned soon and I just assumed vets check for everything that could be wrong with a senior cat (he's 11+half). I'll definitely make sure he has a 'good MOT'.

Having now got him back on track after his 2 bouts of cystitis in as many months with as much water added to his food as he'll take, I've recently spotted him drinking quite a bit of rain water both outside and indoors when I fill bowls up with rain water. So from worrying about his cystitis, I now worry that he might have something else going on with him. Can't win.

[MarkB]

Guinevere, a dull raggedy coat is another pointer for Hyper-T, so my money would be on that. It does put a strain on prgans, so the sooner it is under control, the better. Apparently due to high blood pressure is a cat is Hyper-T, it can mask kidney disease (probably the main issue with older cats) so if it is that, once it is under control it is worth getting the kidneys checked again.

Jan - I always used to assume 'full bloods' meant just that, but apparently not. I know some vets do a 'senior blood test', but not sure what that covers. I know money isn't the main issue, but my new (ish) vet does a mini kidney profile test for £18, compared to full bloods - my old vet always charged £60 for full (+£28 for T4)

We still don't have the balance right with Laz - He was on 1/4 Istin a day for high BP but it went too low. He was then on 1/4 every other day and it wasn't low enough. The vet has said to go back to every day, but he is lethargic again, so I think he needs his BP checked again next week. I found a BP tablet in his bed last week, so that could have affected readings. When his BP was up, he started acting more normally. If anything, I would rather go for the high end and see him enjoy life, even if it means a shorter one. I asked the vet if the DDAVP could be affecting his BP and he says no (even though the literature says it regulates BP) - he is on such a cocktail of drugs, all affecting BP, so a real juggle.

[booktigger]

I would suspect kidney issues over hyper-t and can understand why your vet thinks it unlikely, a hyper-t cat is normally skinny but ravenous

[Guinevere]

OMG Booktigger! She HAS been losing weight over the last month and is definitely lighter when I pick her up and is developing a "waist" which I haven't seen in 10 years! She IS also ravenous and demanding so much more food than usual - every few hours. I assumed it was on account of the weather turning colder cos I have been eating more too!

I have just phoned the vets who asked about her symptoms and I will be bringing her in on Tuesday morning early and fasting her from the night before from 7pm - how will I achieve that? She will then be admitted for blood tests and anything else the vet decides from our consultation.

I will let you all know which of these two diagnoses it turns out to be! What will that mean for her if she has Hyper T? Is there anything I can do for her while we wait for her appointment and any tips about fasting her overnight - can she still drink water?

I am certainly getting worried for her now...

Many thanks

[Jan]

Really hope your worries turn out to be unfounded .... I've had enough worry about Blackie over the past few months so understand how you must be feeling - as am sure many others here do too. Regret I don't know enough about the problems to give you any advice - I'm always ringing our clinic to ask what I should (or shouldn't do) being such a cat owning novice.

Mark ... we'll shortly be heading down to N Somerset where Blackie is registered with a vet (has been for 10 years as Mum took him there from a kitten) and they do a 'senior cat consultation' every Thursday afternoon, so I'll definitely be calling in to see what tests they cover. This vet told me last year how worried she was that Blackie was so overweight at the time (Mum's failing memory meant she couldn't remember when she fed him) and at high risk of developing kidney disease. He's a better weight now (5.65 though the vet would like him to be 5kg) but I wonder if damage has already been done.

[Guinevere]

I have found this link about Hyper T - very good explanation of the causes, symptoms and treatment.

http://www.icatcare.org:8080/advice/cat ... and#causes" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I am feeling calmer after reading it - only 2% of cases turn out to be sinister, most others are treatable with medication or the Radioative Idodine Injection!

Also I just changed her appointment to Monday morning and the nurse said no food after 10pm so that's a lot easier. She said they will test her bloods for absolutely everything and her blood sugar too to check for diabetes.

I am so glad I came to the forum for advice - and thank you all for helping her.

[Crewella]

Whatever it turns out to be, you're right - it's likely to be treatable. Good luck for Monday. xx

[Eliz+Cats]

Hi,

As others have said, there are a number of conditions that can cause increased drinking.

Given that your kitty seems to have a good appetite, and is overweight, it seems to me that diabetes could well be a possibility.

I just want to reassure you that if it is diabetes then that is certainly treatable. And, with care, a diabetic cat can live a completely normal lifespan, in as good a state of health as a non-diabetic cat. (One of my cats has been diabetic for seven and a half years now.)

Good luck with the vet visit.
Keeping fingers and paws crossed for you!

Eliz

[MarkB]

Jan,

That is the first time I have heard obesity being connected with kidney disease. Kylie has always been overweight and her kidneys are fine at 15. I thought the main risks with obesity were diabetes and heart diease + pressure on joints.

[Jan]

Jan,

That is the first time I have heard obesity being connected with kidney disease. Kylie has always been overweight and her kidneys are fine at 15. I thought the main risks with obesity were diabetes and heart diease + pressure on joints.

Come to think of it, Mark, I wonder whether the vet didn't mean he was at risk of developing stones or crystals in his bladder because of him being so overweight which could lead to kidney disease or failure? If Blackie had stayed with Mum there's no way she would have realised there was anything wrong and the only way he would have got to the vets was if we happened to be staying with her at the time (we live 165 miles away). I felt very bad for the cat when the vet said this but there's no way we would have taken the cat away from her.

Anyway, she's in a care home now and we have Blackie with us. The local vet where we live did say one of the factors that doesn't help a cat when it develops idiopathic cystitis was being overweight. (He's suffered from this since early April this year). I've tried really hard to cut his food down - feeding him smaller portions but the vet down in N Somerset told me that Hills stress food is very high in calories - though she agreed that Blackie must stay on it for the time being.

I suppose being overweight doesn't really help any animal ... including us (head hung in shame here ...guilty as charged!).

[Guinevere]

UPDATE:

I am just back from the vets. From the examination, he says she is in good shape but then went off to check her blood sugar first. He returned to say that she most likely has diabetes. Apparently a normal reading is between 5-10 but that can increase to 15 in the surgery due to stress. Poor Guinevere's reading was 25!

My legs went to jelly when he told me and I had to sit down on her carrier! When he said "She is di-abetic, my brain registered the "di" before the rest of the word and I thought he was telling me she is dying! I feel very choked up about it and although we have been discussing her here, it was a terrible shock and I am feeling very guilty that I let her get overweight.

She is still at the vets as she has had to be admitted for sedation in order to take her bloods as she was having none of it - who would willingly allow anyone to take blood from their jugular vein in their neck!? After this, he wants a urine sample which I will get from her litter tray - he will be supplying me with non-absorbent cat litter to do this. After this, he said he will check her liver and kidneys to make sure no damage has occurred there.

I asked him what this meant for her and he said I will have to inject her twice daily - the shocks just kept coming! Has anyone here ever injected their cat?

It appears the insurance company will cover all of her treatment minus the excess which was a very small amount.

I am totally gutted as I write this - but I guess I will get into the swing of it all once the shock wears off.

Thanks for listening....

[booktigger]

Fingers crossed for the results - re bloods, if you ask for Emla cream, they can normally get bloods without sedation. My new vet uses the leg rather than neck, and managed to get blood from mine without issues, whereas from the neck it was a fight with both of them, and required Emla cream. There are lots of good sites about diabetes, and a diet change can help them not need injections, most say they shouldn't have dry food.

[Guinevere]

Many thanks. I asked whether it could be reversed as in humans and he said that while it is a possibility, it is very rare. I think I will make it my personal quest to get her back to good health and off the injections so I will do some research about it and work with the vet to try to overcome it if possible - I owe it to her to try my hardest.

Right now though, she is pretty poorly with an awful coat and weight loss so I will have to go down the injection route initially until we can bring her sugar levels down.

There was no mention of Emla Cream at the vets and sadly no attempt to take blood from her leg - a much less shocking way!

Hopefully she is all drugged up now and sleeping soundly - I will be collecting her in a couple of hours.

[Jan]

Thinking of you ... can imagine and totally understand how you must be feeling.

Please do keep us updated with progress.

Jan x

[Guinevere]

Thanks Jan,

Even with sedation she would not allow blood to be taken from her neck under any circumstances so the vet eventually took it from her leg - that's my girl! She is very grateful to be home and finally have some dinner. She was given a drug to reverse the sedation so she is pretty alert.

I will be taking her back to the vet on Wednesday evening with her urine sample so he can teach me how to inject her. He says he is 90% sure it is diabetes before he receives the urine sample as her bloods are fine for everything else. I am struggling to get my head around having to inject her but at least I won't be searching for veins as I will be injecting into the scruff of her neck. I guess it will just become routine to me - anyone else injecting their cat?

[Eliz+Cats]

... He says he is 90% sure it is diabetes before he receives the urine sample as her bloods are fine for everything else. I am struggling to get my head around having to inject her but at least I won't be searching for veins as I will be injecting into the scruff of her neck. I guess it will just become routine to me - anyone else injecting their cat?

Hi

I am sorry to hear that your cat may have diabetes. But the good news is that it IS treatable.
My cat, Bertie, has been diabetic and on insulin for seven and a half years, and I now post regularly on a feline diabetes forum to try to support and reassure others who are in 'the same boat'. (The forum is at http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/index.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; And my username is 'Elizabeth and Bertie').
Here's a link to a page of pics and info from another site, the Sugarpet website, about how to give the insulin shots:
http://www.sugarpet.net/injecting.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Essentially, you're pulling up loose skin on the scruff of the neck to form a sort of 'tent'; and then you imagine that you inject 'in through the door' of the tent, parallel to the spine. This should not hurt your cat at all. You are only aiming to deposit the insulin under the loose skin, not into the muscle.
Many folks give the insulin shots while their cat is eating, and the cat hardly even notices.

Incidentally, a blood glucose reading of 25 is not at all unusual in a newly diagnosed diabetic (and some of that may well have been 'vet clinic stress').

With good care many diabetic cats can actually go into remission (ie, become diet-controlled diabetics). May I ask, what are you feeding your cat at the moment? Dry food? Wet food?

Eliz

[Guinevere]

Thanks for your reply Eliz.

I have just gone to the vets with her urine sample and the diagnosis is definitely diabetes. The vet said he would show me how to inject and I should bring the cat back in the morning for a try myself. I said No, let me do it now (the cat hates the car.). So, I successfully injecting another living soul today! It was much easier than I thought and she didn't even flinch. Tomorrow morning I am on my own with it but I am sure I will be fine. She is being started on the lowest dose of 2 bars on the syringe.

Although my insurance company is sure to cover the costs of all of this, I was surprised that it is in fact not as expensive as I thought - I thought the insulin would cost a fortune but it doesn't so I am reassured that if the worst happened I could afford to buy it myself - that is a HUGE relief!

I will check out the forum and thanks for passing the link on to me.

Guinevere usually has a pouch or tray for her morning meal and then her evening meal is always raw white fish. I do leave biscuits there for her all day (and night!) and she grazes on these. The vet says to continue what I am doing for now but to aim for changing the biscuits to diabetic ones.

I would love to see if I can turn things around for her if it hasn't got a firm hold so I am hoping to get some pointers for that on the forum.

I could kick myself for letting this happen to her!

[MarkB]

Good luck with the injecting. I'm sure it will become second nature in no time - I used to give one of mine subcutaneous water as she had kidney disease but wasn't drinking enough. She didn't seem to notice the injection and I think it was a bigger needle than is used for insulin.

It would be good if it can be managed with diet, although it does limit what they can eat.

[Guinevere]

Thanks Mark,

I have just tried my first solo injection but no joy yet as I can't get hold of her scruff! She doesn't have much loose skin around her neck or beneath that so it requires a good pull to lift it up which is making her angry and she wriggles away. She lets me brush her when she is eating so I did that for a bit and then went in for the scruff but absolutely no go!

I have tried about 4 times but now I have put it back in the fridge and will try again soon - perhaps when she is lying down the scruff will be a bit looser?

[MarkB]

I'm sure it will be looser - maybe when she is eating?

I just came across this article by Lisa Pierson (highly respected) and she says to be careful switching to a diabetic diet without reducing the insulin dose. I will have a look later, but might be worth a read. I know there is a lot of info online, but I know this vet is highly regarded http://www.catinfo.org/?link=felinediabetes" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Eliz+Cats]

I have just tried my first solo injection but no joy yet as I can't get hold of her scruff! She doesn't have much loose skin around her neck or beneath that so it requires a good pull to lift it up which is making her angry and she wriggles away.
....perhaps when she is lying down the scruff will be a bit looser?

Hi,

It's very 'early days', and this is something new for both you and your cat. But you will very soon establish a routine and it will become, as Mark said above, 'second nature'.

I was really scared of the idea of giving insulin shots initially. I was needle-phobic for a start, but was also very concerned that I'd hurt my cat.
Strange as it may sound, I actually practiced by injecting into oranges and found that really helpful just to get a 'feel' for the process! (If you want to know more about the early days/weeks of my cat's diabetes there's a link to his story in my profile).

I find it easiest to inject if Bertie is eating and I'm standing almost behind him (so that I'm not looming over him).

There are different ways of injecting too. The link I gave in my previous post was about the usual 'tenting' method. But there are lots of variations on the theme. I usually stroke the top of Bertie's head and then down onto to the back of his neck, gently feel for a bit of loose skin, get hold of a bit of scruff between my fingers and thumb, pull it up slightly and then inject almost directly downwards (just at a very slight angle) into the skin that I'm holding. Talking in a gentle reassuring voice throughout the process can help to relax the cat (and caregiver!).

You may also find it helpful to reward your cat with a treat after each injection, so that she starts to look forward to that (and only give treats at that time).

You will find a way that works for you. Be patient with yourself. And remember to breathe...

Eliz

[Guinevere]

Thanks Mark,

I won't do anything about changing her diet without the vet agreeing.

I have just tried injecting again while she was dozing on my bed - she won't let me! The vet said I am to check there is no blood in the syringe before administering it and so I am worried to just "go for it" when I manage to grab the scruff. It is frustrating but I simply must find a way for her to take it!

Thanks Eliz - just spotted your post while replying to Mark. I first tried while she was eating as I often brush her at that time so I thought it would be okay. I think my lack of confidence is not helping much as I am trying to exactly replicate how I did it at the vets (she allowed me to get a good grip yesterday - she was so grateful it was my hand and not the vets hand that she let me do it.

Would yesterday's injection point be sore so she is feeling pain when I grab the scruff?

[Guinevere]

P.S. The insulin has been in the syringe for a good hour now (in the fridge). Is it still okay to use it or should I start a new one?